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1. There is nothing irrational about the fear of getting some of these diseases. I guess top on my list is whooping cough. I've fortunately never had it, but those I've met that do describe coughing spells that went on for weeks and sore ribs and chest muscles that were worth their life. You seen the numbers over and over again about the deaths caused by measles, mumps and even chicken pox. There may not have been "many" by your standards. However, the mortality and morbidity of all these diseases was very real.
Speaking of fear though, I did have sort of an epiphany about Dr. Rankin. Its just conjecture on my part, but as OB-GYN she undoubtedly sees a very large population of women in their twenties. Its been my observation that this group is a particularly difficult group to deal with in our modern world. It certainly doesn't apply to all women in this age group, but a very large number of them, these days, seemed defined by fear and anxiety. It can be very hard to reason with them and often they don't respond to factual or scientific arguments. I wonder if Dr. Rankin is speaking to this group and hoping to ease some of their fears, so that her job and that of her profession becomes a bit easier?
2. I do think there are good reasons why everyone should be vaccinated. At this point, I have no intention of explaining herd immunity again to you. I think if I have to do it one more time, I will be too sick to enjoy my impending business lunch in a few minutes.
3. At 55, I don't know if I count as the "older generation" or not. Frankly, I hope I don't. However, I have had mumps, rubella, and chicken pox. I may have had red measles, I don't really remember. Vaccination for red measles started about the time I was ready for kindergarten. I think I am a strong advocate for vaccination, partly because I have had these diseases. I have mentioned before during our vaccination threads that I had a friend who ended up in the hospital because of mumps. Most of the time, these diseases did not do great harm. However, they were so ubiquitous in the world we grew up in that some of the people who caught them were bound to have serious complications. I suspect pneumonia was a fairly common complication because of the body's immune response to the disease. (i.e. secretion of lots of fluid to expel the disease from your body) Vaccination eliminates most of these diseases from the community and stops those complications, not to mention preventing the spread of the disease to immune-compromised people.
4. I agree that the response of parents to diseases like measles, mumps, and chicken pox was different than it is today. Prior to immunization, it was understood that virtually every child would catch these diseases. Preventing the diseases was pretty near impossible. So, parents allowed kids to get these and simply hoped for the best--which was generally the case. Quarantining infected children is not sensible in that particular situation. Parents were, in effect, making a risk/benefit determination under tough circumstances.
However, the risk/benefit calculus changes dramatically when a safe and effective means exists to prevent these diseases. Why take a 1 in 1,000 chance that your child will die from measles when a vaccination exists that is 99% effective in stopping it and serious side effects from the vaccine are negligible? That's the point. Taking any significant risk is no longer necessary because a means exists to prevent most (if not all) of these infectious diseases.
I think those of us who had these diseases are often the major supporters of mandatory vaccination. Its because, to us, these diseases are a very real thing and don't simply exist in medical textbooks. Getting our kids vaccinated was probably one of the easiest parenting choices DW and I ever made.
I know this won't sink in for you, Jo. I do hope others who are sitting on the fence will read this and it will sink in for them.
How many deaths from the Disney Measles Outbreak? ZERO. I am 11 year older than you are. I had all those horrible diseases myself. My kids are now adults themselves. As my 36 year old daughter said the other day, "What is so horrific about Chicken Pox?". She was 11 years old when she had it in 1991, just a few years short of the vaccine becoming available. Now she is DOOMED to horrific Shingles, maybe sooner rather than later. "I will deal with that IF and when it happens".
I do believe that your precious vaccination is the reason why people are now getting Shingles. Adults not being exposed over and over to chicken pox over the years and boosting their natural immunity from the disease. Maybe they will see the same is true for all the other diseases. MORE boosters.
How many medications require addition medications to counter act the original ones? Never ending cycle but that keeping the demand up for more and more, plus increased medical care.
Chicken Pox vaccine is causing Shingles in younger, and older adults, by not re-exposing them to Chicken Pox. Basically, you have created ANOTHER disease by that vaccination. Basically, my parents generation, and mine, were exposed over many years to children with chicken pox which stimulated the immune system. I wonder. We will find the the same is true for measles, etc., also? Ok, just get a booster shot for that in your old age. Cradle to Grave immunizations as the mantra says.
Don't worry. There is ANOTHER vaccine for you to take to prevent what we created in the first place.
Chickenpox vaccine is not responsible for the increase in shingles, which started before the vaccine came out and continued even in places with low vaccine uptake.
"'The chickenpox vaccine program was introduced in 1996, so we looked at the incidence of shingles from the early '90s to 2010, and found that shingles was already increasing before the vaccine program started,' said study author Dr. Craig Hales, a medical epidemiologist at the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. 'And as immunization coverage in children reached 90 percent, shingles continued at the same rate.' "
Chicken Pox vaccine is causing Shingles in younger, and older adults, by not re-exposing them to Chicken Pox. Basically, you have created ANOTHER disease by that vaccination. Basically, my parents generation, and mine, were exposed over many years to children with chicken pox which stimulated the immune system. I wonder. We will find the the same is true for measles, etc., also? Ok, just get a booster shot for that in your old age. Cradle to Grave immunizations as the mantra says.
Don't worry. There is ANOTHER vaccine for you to take to prevent what we created in the first place.
Shingles is not a newly minted disease. http://www.life123.com/health/medica...shingles.shtml "In 1888, Dr. James von Bokay proposed that chicken pox and shingles were caused by the same virus. . . During the 1940s and 1950s, various strides were made in understanding the nature and cause of shingles. Chicken pox had been considered a minor illness, but doctors began to realize that it created more serious symptoms and side effects in adults."
My allowable three sentences. BTW, I had shingles in 1984.
Shingles is not a newly minted disease. http://www.life123.com/health/medica...shingles.shtml "In 1888, Dr. James von Bokay proposed that chicken pox and shingles were caused by the same virus. . . During the 1940s and 1950s, various strides were made in understanding the nature and cause of shingles. Chicken pox had been considered a minor illness, but doctors began to realize that it created more serious symptoms and side effects in adults."
My allowable three sentences. BTW, I had shingles in 1984.
Did your children have Chicken Pox?
Edit: I am talking about my grandparents (late 1800s) and my parents (1920s) generations, not 1984. Hey, I myself was almost middle aged in 1984.
Vaccines are an American invention. The vaccines obtained in the Third World are manufactured in American facilities or foreign ones under the supervision of American concerns. The money winds up in America. America still has considerable military, economic and political leverage over the rest of the Free World. Especially the Third World. That's why their vaccination rates are so high. American parents are more widely educated. They question authority. You cannot use sticks on them, nor carrots. So the vaccine makers are resorting to emotional blackmail.
If you are unlucky enough to get Ebola it is very likely to kill you. If you get the measles it is very unlikely to kill you. Measles is no more likely to kill a person than the Common Cold, for which there is no vaccine. The Flu or the Common Cold for that matter are not that deadly in and of themselves but they can weaken an older, or very young, or otherwise vulnerable person to secondary infections which sometimes are fatal. If you could support a vulnerable persons body long enough through a bad Measles episode they would live. Several hundred Ebola victims' lives were saved by herculean systemic support until their own immune systems could take over and ride their bodies of the virus.
How is that Ebola Vaccine coming? When the next Ebola outbreak happens we still won't have one because no one is using the Interval to develop one because there is no money in it. Before there was a Measles vaccine, how many children did it kill? I'm serious. How many children was Measles killing that this vaccine has become such a hot topic of political brinksmanship? I suspect more children are dying from colds and flu. There is no vaccine for a cold, and Flu vaccine manufacture and delivery is plagued with shortfalls in supply, and other systemic inefficiencies. I remember a recent flu season when the supply of vaccine was so low that it was rationed. Because of all the brainwashing, people WANT flu vaccine, which is good for Big Pharma, but they cannot keep up with demand, so they use emotional blackmail on the young adults and middle-aged to "give their dose" to someone more needy. Gotta love it.
There will never be a vaccine for HIV because it is easy enough to prevent. In fact, a vaccine might promote promiscuity so... no vaccine. Ever. No one except maybe me is going to tell you this but, antibiotics, maybe the only useful drugs the Big Pharma people ever came up with are slowly going offline. At the moment there are about 25 illnesses that are developing antibiotic resistant strains. The CDC is beyond concerned. Nero is fiddling while Rome burns. Antibiotic resistant common illnesses are a way bigger threat to the public health than some pockets of children unvaccinated against Measles.
Speaking of fear though, I did have sort of an epiphany about Dr. Rankin. Its just conjecture on my part, but as OB-GYN she undoubtedly sees a very large population of women in their twenties. Its been my observation that this group is a particularly difficult group to deal with in our modern world. It certainly doesn't apply to all women in this age group, but a very large number of them, these days, seemed defined by fear and anxiety. It can be very hard to reason with them and often they don't respond to factual or scientific arguments. I wonder if Dr. Rankin is speaking to this group and hoping to ease some of their fears, so that her job and that of her profession becomes a bit easier?
One word comes to mind when I read this. Misogyny.
Chickenpox vaccination has not increased the risk of shingles. The incidence was increasing before the vaccine was introduced and has not increased in communities with high rates of chickenpox vaccination.
In addition, vaccinating children lowers the risk of chickenpox in infants too young to vaccinate and in older age groups due to herd effect.
Vaccines are an American invention. The vaccines obtained in the Third World are manufactured in American facilities or foreign ones under the supervision of American concerns. The money winds up in America. America still has considerable military, economic and political leverage over the rest of the Free World. Especially the Third World. That's why their vaccination rates are so high. American parents are more widely educated. They question authority. You cannot use sticks on them, nor carrots. So the vaccine makers are resorting to emotional blackmail.
Parents in the third world go to lengths to get their children vaccinated that the ant-vaxxers in the US will never comprehend. They have actually seen deaths from measles, including their own children. No "emotional blackmail" is necessary.
Quote:
Measles is no more likely to kill a person than the Common Cold, for which there is no vaccine. The Flu or the Common Cold for that matter are not that deadly in and of themselves but they can weaken an older, or very young, or otherwise vulnerable person to secondary infections which sometimes are fatal. If you could support a vulnerable persons body long enough through a bad Measles episode they would live. Several hundred Ebola victims' lives were saved by herculean systemic support until their own immune systems could take over and ride their bodies of the virus.
Please supply the source for your belief that measles is no more deadly than the common cold.
If you die from a complication of measles or the flu, then measles or the flu is the reason you died. If you had not had measles or the flu, you would not have had the complication.
Thousands of Ebola victims died despite heroic efforts. Your point?
Quote:
How is that Ebola Vaccine coming? When the next Ebola outbreak happens we still won't have one because no one is using the Interval to develop one because there is no money in it. Before there was a Measles vaccine, how many children did it kill? I'm serious. How many children was Measles killing that this vaccine has become such a hot topic of political brinksmanship? I suspect more children are dying from colds and flu. There is no vaccine for a cold, and Flu vaccine manufacture and delivery is plagued with shortfalls in supply, and other systemic inefficiencies. I remember a recent flu season when the supply of vaccine was so low that it was rationed. Because of all the brainwashing, people WANT flu vaccine, which is good for Big Pharma, but they cannot keep up with demand, so they use emotional blackmail on the young adults and middle-aged to "give their dose" to someone more needy. Gotta love it.
There are already multiple Ebola vaccines in Phase II and III trials, so this argument can be trashed immediately.
There have been no flu vaccine shortages in recent years.
Quote:
There will never be a vaccine for HIV because it is easy enough to prevent. In fact, a vaccine might promote promiscuity so... no vaccine. Ever.
Sorry to tell you this but not everyone with HIV is promiscuous. A vaccine for HIV has proved difficult to produce due to the way the virus mutates; however, research does continue.
No one except maybe me is going to tell you this but, antibiotics, maybe the only useful drugs the Big Pharma people ever came up with are slowly going offline. At the moment there are about 25 illnesses that are developing antibiotic resistant strains. The CDC is beyond concerned. Nero is fiddling while Rome burns. Antibiotic resistant common illnesses are a way bigger threat to the public health than some pockets of children unvaccinated against Measles.
Antibiotic resistance is indeed a problem, but that does not mean antibiotics are "slowly going offline". Plenty of infections still respond to peniclillin, sulfa, and tetracycline, for example. New classes of antibiotics are being discovered.
Vaccines actually reduce presssure for antibiotic resistance because they reduce the need for antibiotics to treat vaccine preventable bacterial diseases and to treat bacterial complications of viral diseases, like skin infections in chickenpox.
In addition, dragging antibiotic resistance into this conversation is a bit like saying we should not use seat belts in automobiles because there is a problem with people dying in motorcycle accidents. Antibiotic resistance is irrelevant to the current discussion.
If antibiotics are "the only useful drugs the Big Pharma people ever came up with", where does that leave insulin? Anesthetics? Drugs for high blood pressure? Aspirin, Tylenol, and other pain medications?
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However, I have had mumps, rubella, and chicken pox. I may have had red measles, I don't really remember. Vaccination for red measles started about the time I was ready for kindergarten. I think I am a strong advocate for vaccination, partly because I have had these diseases. I have mentioned before during our vaccination threads that I had a friend who ended up in the hospital because of mumps. Most of the time, these diseases did not do great harm. However, they were so ubiquitous in the world we grew up in that some of the people who caught them were bound to have serious complications. I suspect pneumonia was a fairly common complication because of the body's immune response to the disease. (i.e. secretion of lots of fluid to expel the disease from your body) Vaccination eliminates most of these diseases from the community and stops those complications, not to mention preventing the spread of the disease to immune-compromised people.
