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It's not as small as you and the vaccine companies have led people to believe.
Just measles? How about polio? The risk is brought in from other countries, is it not? What about chicken pox? They just had a "big emergency" quarantine at a hospital for a man with chicken pox who had just returned home to the US.
Maybe rodentraiser can help you understand that there is no real choice involved in this coercive legislation. Some will be forced despite your misguided claims to the contrary.
It is your opinion that naturopaths and chiropractors are quacks. I'm sure some are absolutely terrible as are some doctors but to dismiss a profession because it falls outside your realm of understanding is ignorant and close minded.
So pretty much anyone who does not agree with you and your beloved CDC, no matter what their credentials are, is a quack? Got it.
Interestingly enough some naturopaths and chiropractors advocate vaccination. As for being quacks...
ND & MD require MCAT.
In the first two years of med school:
DC has 3606 educational hours & 1023 clinic hours, That seems pretty extensive to me.
MD has 2600 educational hours & 2200 clinic hours. Plus mandatory residency years.
ND has 3348 educational hours & 1400 clinic hours. Plus mandatory research years.
Issue is that ND have more educational credits in subjects like Anatomy, Biochemistry, Physiology, Pathology, and Clinical Training (nearly double). AANMC: Comparing ND & MD Curricula
To call NDs and DCs quacks is just wrong! While MDs focus on clinic hours and pharmaceuticals. While NDs focus on nutrition and clinical training.
The CDC has an agenda as do most publications and websites. I'd rather not put all my eggs in one basket.
The reality is that there is no good argument against vaccination but the same people that will give their children a bleach enema don't care about facts, logic or any of that fancy-schmancy science stuff, they act based on feelings and the insistence that every idiotic form of alternative treatment is only being criticized because "the man" is trying to keep people sick.
So they avoid vaccination because they don't want anything "unnatural" in their kids bodies but put bleach in their sippy cups "to kill the parasites of course", "parasites" that only exist in their own minds and have no problem with using heavy duty chelating drugs on their kids or any number of other cracked-out practices as long as it isn't mainstream, because when it comes to your child's health,you can trust a huckster with no medical background, discredited former doctors, outcasts from various fields who have been lambasted for their lack of integrity and honestly, those presenting only anecodtal evidence but God forbid you trust the sum of medical science and the vast majority of doctors, many of whom have families and children of their own.
Of course it benefits the medical industry if people are sick! More sickness, more profit.
So if it's not mainstream it is worth it? I don't use bleach (especially for an enema!) but as far as chelation, you can do that with simple activated charcoal orally. I don't know what drugs they are using...
Once mainstream was blood-letting (poor President Washington and his exsanguination issue leading to death). It used to be mainstream for doctors to perform surgery without hand-washing leading to tetanus and death. Even just a few decades ago it was mainstream to allow people to smoke in hospital waiting rooms.
Medical science is ever evolving. That is why we should have the freedom to choose what medical interventions we want to participate in. If you wholeheartedly believe everything your doctor or the scientist tells you then I can see why you keep insisting medical science is perfect. BTW.. if you don't have doubts and misgivings, you are not using critical thinking.
If you were diagnosed with cancer would you just accept it and go along with whatever your doc told you?
Interestingly enough some naturopaths and chiropractors advocate vaccination. As for being quacks...
ND & MD require MCAT.
In the first two years of med school:
DC has 3606 educational hours & 1023 clinic hours, That seems pretty extensive to me.
MD has 2600 educational hours & 2200 clinic hours. Plus mandatory residency years.
ND has 3348 educational hours & 1400 clinic hours. Plus mandatory research years.
Issue is that ND have more educational credits in subjects like Anatomy, Biochemistry, Physiology, Pathology, and Clinical Training (nearly double). AANMC: Comparing ND & MD Curricula
To call NDs and DCs quacks is just wrong! While MDs focus on clinic hours and pharmaceuticals. While NDs focus on nutrition and clinical training.
The CDC has an agenda as do most publications and websites. I'd rather not put all my eggs in one basket.
To be clear, MissTerri called them quacks, not me.
I believe reputable medical information should come from reputable medical organizations based on research on immunology. Not too complex, no conspiracy.
I am aware many naturopaths support vaccinations especially those that work with children.
Hello Dr. Krumbeck,
Thank you for your response! Yes, I have found much of the same to be true. Once parents are well informed on what the risks and benefits are, many of the fears disappear. I have found that with most parents the fears they have are often based on misinformation that came from non-medical sources. I really urge parents to get information on vaccines from their physician or from well respected peer reviewed journals. I agree, most of the NDs I know who practice pediatrics do administer and support vaccines.
Of course it benefits the medical industry if people are sick! More sickness, more profit.
So if it's not mainstream it is worth it? I don't use bleach (especially for an enema!) but as far as chelation, you can do that with simple activated charcoal orally. I don't know what drugs they are using...
Once mainstream was blood-letting (poor President Washington and his exsanguination issue leading to death). It used to be mainstream for doctors to perform surgery without hand-washing leading to tetanus and death. Even just a few decades ago it was mainstream to allow people to smoke in hospital waiting rooms.
Medical science is ever evolving. That is why we should have the freedom to choose what medical interventions we want to participate in. If you wholeheartedly believe everything your doctor or the scientist tells you then I can see why you keep insisting medical science is perfect. BTW.. if you don't have doubts and misgivings, you are not using critical thinking.
If you were diagnosed with cancer would you just accept it and go along with whatever your doc told you?
More sickness, more profit? Wait, so why would doctors try to vaccinate then? Which statistically drastically reduces disease, shouldn't they be AGAINST vaccination on your logic?
Medical science is ever evolving - agreed, which is why relying on debunked fraudulent studies from years ago and not staying current on the studies that support vaccination is ridiculous.
If I was diagnosed with cancer I would absolutely listen to my oncologist. I would ask questions for sure, but you better believe I wouldn't rely on "google" as equal to that oncologist's specialized training.
Since you support mandates then I'm sure you'll be happy when HPV is added to the mandate list in your state with no option for an exemption. Good luck with that. Hopefully your children and grandchildren will not be among those who have a serious reaction to a vaccine.
Seriously? Did you seriously just post that to me? *I* am the one who agreed with your posts about the HPV mandate. I am not in favor of that mandate, which I explained in my posts. Do you remember that, but willfully choose to post rudely to me anyway?
I am probably the only person here who has tried to find common ground, who has supported statements (including yours) from both sides of the issues, and who has not stubbornly dug in my heels refusing to acknowledging valid points on both sides.
Interestingly enough some naturopaths and chiropractors advocate vaccination. As for being quacks...
ND & MD require MCAT.
In the first two years of med school:
DC has 3606 educational hours & 1023 clinic hours, That seems pretty extensive to me.
MD has 2600 educational hours & 2200 clinic hours. Plus mandatory residency years.
ND has 3348 educational hours & 1400 clinic hours. Plus mandatory research years.
Issue is that ND have more educational credits in subjects like Anatomy, Biochemistry, Physiology, Pathology, and Clinical Training (nearly double). AANMC: Comparing ND & MD Curricula
To call NDs and DCs quacks is just wrong! While MDs focus on clinic hours and pharmaceuticals. While NDs focus on nutrition and clinical training.
The CDC has an agenda as do most publications and websites. I'd rather not put all my eggs in one basket.
I don't want to be misunderstood. I don't believe chiropractors are quacks. I believe that as long as they limit their field to soft tissue neck and back problems there is something to what they do. Possibly physical therapy under the supervision of an M.D. would be better, but I do understand why people choose chiropractic care for these problems.
I have been to a chiropractor in the past and one of them solved a problem with my upper back that was making me crazy. That same chiropractor believes in every immunization except the one for influenza. With that one, he is "on the fence". He certainly doesn't make absurd comments about the vaccine containing poison.
What is crazy is to assert that vaccination is dangerous, that vaccines are poisonous, or that they don't work.
Naturopaths? I'm very skeptical of them. However, I admit I've never been to one and can't imagine myself going.
Claiming that all of the sources that those of us who support vaccination have quoted from the CDC is an outright untruth. I have cited sources from the Journal of the American Medical Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the New England Journal of Medicine, and recently, the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists. These are all private organizations, journals, or institutions. Anyone who believes these groups are part of some "conspiracy" to promote vaccination is nuts. The idea of such large and diverse groups conspiring over anything is an impossibility. So, none of us are "putting all are eggs in one basket".
Of course it benefits the medical industry if people are sick! More sickness, more profit.
So why vaccinate at all? There's more money to be made in treatment than preventative care. If your hypothesis was true, they'd much rather reap the windfall of kids having to be hospitalized, emergency room visits, all sorts of applications for analgesic aids and anti-viral drugs, they could make a fortune!
Why have a vaccine to prevent disease when you can make so much more in treating it? For as big, bad and ruthless as these Big Pharma guys are, they sure have terrible business sense.
"They don't see that so they don't know, so they say, 'What's the big deal? It's a rash, you know, it won't be my kid.' But people forget what childhood death is and what infantile mortality is, people forget how many children died or were left with encephalitis or terrible brain diseases that caused mental retardation and people to be institutionalised for the rest of their life from measles."
Quote:
"I thought that the government wasn't to be trusted and I very much believed in the idea that there was this big organisation called Big Pharma and I thought that people would be willing to make my child sick to make a dollar.
"All that I could think about was that I was doing what I needed to do to protect my children from this beast of modern medicine. I didn't think about the possibility that I was putting anyone else in danger, but I now know that I was." But Juniper's views changed after her daughter, who had never had a vaccination, was diagnosed with autism.
"That was the beginning of me starting to face that I had made a mistake in assuming that if I did everything in this perfect... way that nothing wrong would ever happen to my kids.
"I was seeing a lot of it on the news, and I now realise that it was actually very irresponsible of the media. They would have a physician who worked with the World Health Organization on TV, and then debating with him they would have a mum who said that her kid had autism from the vaccine.
"It was very easy for me to side with the person that I could relate to the most, instead of siding with the big scary doctor who was, I assumed, paid off by the government."
"The reason that [people] get more entrenched [in their opposition to vaccination] is they feel like they're not being listened to. So you don't throw information at the problem. Instead you learn to listen."
I agree with this approach when it relates to individual mothers making decisions about their children's healthcare. The doctors I talk to say their practice is about sharing information with mothers and the vast (overhelming) majority of those mothers end up vaccinating their children.
This does NOT (IMO) extend to "listening to" the rabid intransigent anti-vax agendas on forums like this. Their "feelings" don't trump thousands of studies, particularly when their goal is to "convert" others to the anti-science view.
Anyone on this thread for more than a day knows no amount of "listening" will change the minds of the 4-5 repeat anti-science posters. Personally, the information I provide is to help mothers sort through the rhetoric and make informed decisions.
Seriously? Did you seriously just post that to me? *I* am the one who agreed with your posts about the HPV mandate. I am not in favor of that mandate, which I explained in my posts. Do you remember that, but willfully choose to post rudely to me anyway?
I am probably the only person here who has tried to find common ground, who has supported statements (including yours) from both sides of the issues, and who has not stubbornly dug in my heels refusing to acknowledging valid points on both sides.
And THIS is how you reply to me??
Did you seriously reply to Mark's post which in part was a put down to me for not answering his questions in a way that he demanded?
Quote:
This is a very well-reasoned post in a sea of craziness!
The thing about mandates is that if you support the mandates like the ones in CA, one day you may find things added to the mandated list (like the HPV vaccine) that you don't like or agree with and guess what? You'll then be forced to comply with said mandate that you supported for a vaccine that you may not agree with. This is a huge part of the problem with mandates, they open the door for other things being added and eventually many people who initially thought they were such a great idea suddenly find themselves mandated to do something that they are against. I'm sorry if you were offended by my post but I don't understand how people can't see this. It's frustrating and I'm offended that people want to take away people's right to choose. I do believe that some will regret it when a vaccine is added that they aren't on board with.
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