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Just posting about Sunny. He is making that snorting nose. Bleeding is not that bad. He is plugging away. I went for exactly 10 days with no bleeding last week. Than this weekend it came back. Not too heavy though. The snoring is louder than usual. Hope everyone is doing ok.
My friend's beagle is the same. I can't believe how long she has had nasal cancer.
She is still on prednisone and still peeing all over the house. Last night she pooped inside the house, too. I notice she is sleeping heavier and longer. But other than that, no change.
Hi all,
I am hoping to get some insight as well as some comfort by posting this reply regarding an issue we are having with our 11 year old Brittany spaniel. Here is a quick recap of what we have been dealing with:
About a month ago, our dog had a 'sneeze' attack that lasted for only one day...I didn't think anything of it - I thought he maybe he was sneezing because of a new cleaner I used to clean the house...but like I said - it was one day and then it stopped. A few weeks after that I was bringing both my dogs to a new groomer (I had been grooming them at home until then) and after their second visit, I noticed my dog had a scaly, dry nose and a small lump in between his eyes located more so on the right side which was the side of the scaly nostril. The only nasal discharge from his nostril had been clear and it was greenish for a couple of days - but that was it...no bloody discharge at all and no sneezing since that one day. We had set up an appt to see a vet on Dec 29th but the day before his appt, we noticed he was shaking and trembling and not acting like himself at all. We took him into the emergency vet and they said he may have a sinus infection or a tumor so they started him on Clavamox and Prednisone. After a few days upon the same time we were tapering down on the Prednisone, our dog had another weird episode where he was shaking, trembling. This happened immediately after eating his dinner. We took him to the emergency vet at 8pm that night and they did an abdominal x-ray and blood work. Both tests came back negative and the vet on call said his intestines showed a little air and said he was probably having cramps so she administered a shot of Buprenorphine, put him on Metronidazole and Famotidine. She told us to stop the Clavamox. We told her about the lump we felt and she dismissed it. The next 14 hours were hell...he panted all evening and the next day he was stumbling all over the house. I called the e-vet at 5:30am and they said it was probably the buprenorphine wearing off...well at noon he was still stumbling over so I took him to my regular vet and he said he probably has a neurological problem or a heart problem. So he told us we should do an abdominal and chest ultrasound. I kept asking about lump but no one wanted to address it without doing a CT scan. The ultrasounds came back negative and still no prognosis. They told us to finish off the prednisone and antibiotics and "see what happens". I was unhappy with this after spending $1500 with no answers. I went to another vet for a 2nd opinion. After examining the dog she said she wanted to do an x-ray of the head and neck. She said most of the time when dogs respond to prednisone, that it could be a cervical disk problem. As she examining our dog, she touched some part of his neck that triggered the same trembling and shaking. After the x-rays, we were able to see 2 things. A cloudiness in the right nasal cavity and a vertebrae that was slightly off kilter. She said she was unsure of the cloudiness because an x-ray will not confirm a tumor in the nasal cavity and but noted that there was no deterioration of the bone which she said was good news. She said it could be a nasty sinus infection and that he would be antibiotics for an extended period of time as those infections are tough treat. She thought the trembling and shaking could be caused by this cervical disc issue therefore, our plan was to put our dog on Ciproflaxin for 8 weeks and Prednisone (20mg a day for 7 days, then taper it down). We were doing ok for the 1st week or so..as I began to taper down the Prednisone, we had another episode of this shaking and trembling. We called the vet and she told us to put him back on 20mg of Prednisone twice a day. So we did that...this week we began to taper it off again...yesterday he had another shaking/panting/trembling episode and I gave him an additional 5mg tab of Pred and within 45 min he seemed to be better. This morning - out of the blue - my dog dropped to the ground and had a seizure. It was horrifying and I'm still shaken up by it. I was a mess - I didn't know what was happening or what to do. I thought he was going to die right in front of me and my son. We called our vet and they told us to bring our dog in. Today, we went to the vet but saw a different doctor as our vet was not in. He examined our dog and said he was 90% sure he has a nasal tumor and that the shaking/trembling and now the seizure is not being caused by the supposed cervical disc issue but rather whatever is happening in the nasal cavity and the compression to the brain. He said the prognosis is poor. He told us the next step would be to get a CT scan but that most likely there wouldn't be any treatment. They told us the CT scan is about $2000 and we can not afford it since we have already spent $1800. I love my dogs with all my heart and I am devastated because I feel like even if I got the CT scan - the outlook was negative. I am so distraught because I don't know what to do. He basically said we could do 2 things: 1) Go for the CT scan and try to get a definitive diagnosis or 2) treat the 'treatables' - start our dog on antifungal medication in the event that the nasal problem is a fungal (although he didn't think so) and give him prednisone to make him comfortable. Right now, I asked for the increased dose of Prednisone (30mg a day) to get him comfortable. He gave me a one week supply. We are supposed to check back in with him about the tapering and/or if we want to do further testing (CT scan). I just feel awful and have been crying everyday for 2 months about this. The seizure episode today was so horrific...I never want to see him go through that again. Without a definitive diagnosis - I am lost even though I know the diagnosis would be poor. I have not come to terms that my dog is dying and I am so scared of what each day will bring now. If anyone has any insight about the use of Prednisone or has gone through anything similar - please let me know. If anything - I would love to just have some support.
i am inclined to believe your last vet regarding nasal cancer causing compression on the brain which is causing the seizures. we have heard of nasal tumors pushing into the brain causing seizures -a not uncommon progression of this disease. as the vet said, only a further scan will confirm the truth of this diagnosis. it is possible that targeted radiation can be used to treat NOT CURE nasal cancer, maybe keep the seizures at bay for a little while, but it, along with the CT scan, will be quite expensive. Prednisone can also help as Woofers here on this thread has mentioned. i am sure i speak for all of us on this thread about how sorry i am that you are facing this. enjoy the times when your dog is well. you will know when it is time to let your spaniel go in peace.
If your dog is having seizures as a result of nasal cancer, it's usually a sign that the cancer has spread to the brain or is pushing on the brain. My feeling is that anything you do right now is going to make your life and the dog's life more miserable. If I were you, I would spend as much quality time with your loved one as possible. Take pictures. Enjoy some long walks. Sleep with your baby in your arms, whatever. And line up some plans should anything happen -- such as, how will you put her down and what will you do with the remains.
Others may not agree with me, and that's okay. Radiation is very, very difficult on the dog, and if your dog is already having seizure, I would recommend you just keep your mind in the present.
I lost my dog before Christmas. Let me tell you, there is never a good time to go. It will always catch you off-guard. I was strong for my girl when she needed me. It was later than I fell apart. Our fur children have much to teach us, even in their passing.
Today is another bad day for me as I'm missing my dog bad. I still carry a lot of guilt and pain and anger over all of it, but I will hold you in my thoughts and check back on this thread again.
she was very restless and snorty for the two nights after we gave her the stuff. no sleep for anyone in the house. today will be a day without robitussin and we will see if she feels better. was there someone, jan maybe, who mentioned that dogs with nasal cancer may be experiencing headaches? was there something to be done to treat that? tillie was just not happy last night - pacing, panting, making the weirdest nose noises yet. , but still breathing through her nose. in the past we gave her nasal spray to open up the nostrils but this is a deeper thing, further up in the sinuses i think. as we keep saying, every day, every hour is a different thing with this disease.
Welcome, Trevi, although I hate welcoming more people to this group. I am so sorry to hear about you and your dear dog are dealing with. Seizures, in particular, are very difficult to watch. I can add a few comments to what others have said. I would agree that what your dog is presenting with could certainly be nasal cancer, but I do find it a bit odd that there are no other discharge symptoms, particularly bleeding. I certainly understand that you have already spent a ton of money, but I just wanted you to know that my experience with CT scans runs more around the $600-$700 range, including anesthesia and all. If it were me, I think I'd continue to try some antibiotics on the off chance that it is a really nasty infection. I'd also continue with meds to make your dog comfortable, which may include seizure medication. I'm not sure if the meds that control seizures in dogs with epilepsy (my parents have one) would work for your dog, but it might be worth checking, particularly if they increase in frequency (which I certainly hope they don't). I'll be keeping you and your dog in my thoughts.
Tallmomma, my vet did tell me that she believed our dog had a sinus headache when he had the tumor (if it is indeed gone now!). I know for us, the next step is the predisone, which reduces inflammation and could reduce a headache, I'd expect.
Bear's Dad, it's very kind of you to have made that lovely statue of Dash. I'm sure it will be much appreciated.
Thank you everyone for your kind words and support. I have a call into our vet for another consultation tomorrow as I was too upset to think of all the questions I had while I there today. I will let you know what she says.
Eginalsk - thanks for the post about the CT scan. When I asked the specialist I would have to see for an estimate they told me the cost would be between $1800 - $2000. I nearly fainted when they told me but that is the cost they gave me. Someone mentioned that some vets might drop the cost if you can pay cash. I haven't explored that option but I will ask tomorrow. With respect to costs it was $800 just to have the ultrasounds done on his abdomen and chest and those were done without any anesthesia. It's strange but I feel our vet costs here in PA are much more expensive than they were when we lived in CA. We were blessed with an amazing vet hospital in CA with great vets and all the technology you could imagine...here where we live - I have to see a specialist for everything and have to travel to various emergency establishments to get tests done or have to wait for when the mobile specialists are scheduled to visit. It's not like we live out in nowhere land but I guess that's just how it is here. Thanks again and I will keep everyone posted.
First I must say OMG Chol, I love your statue of Dash. I doubt if it is too chubbie as Dash does have the wide rib cage of a spaniel and has a short body in length so he does look chubbie. I have always called him the chunky monkey despite my vet saying his weight is fine! You did such a great job and I love the tongue hanging out as I have so few photos where his tongue is not hanging out that I know the photo of him I will always carry in my heart will be one with that tongue hanging out. I think you could make some money making these for people as what an natural artist you are! I will E-mail you my address when I am done here. Thank You ,Thank You, Thank you! I will always cherish this gift! I think I have said this before When I try to see the positive in Dash having cancer it is not hard to do as I have met so many wonderful people because of his cancer so yes bad things do happen to us for a reason. You just have to look at the positive in the situation. I am so glad to hear that Bear continues to do well.
Tallmomma I am sorry the Robitussin DM is not working for Tillie but just like humans dogs are individuals and will respond to drugs in their own way. It did help Dash big time when He had that infection and from how good he sounds now I think it drained alot of mucus that had been trapped in there for a long time out. Even back on the neoplasene he does not sound very stuffy right now. Dr. Ayl had told me the first time I met him that he felt that dogs with nasal cancer must have bad sinus headaches and felt he piroxicam would help with that issue besides working as an antiangiogenic drug. I hope you can find some relief for Tillie. Maybe call Dr. Scanlan and get the meds Bill got for Emmitt and give them a try?
Joey, Glad to hear that Sunny seems to be doing well. Snorting and some bleeding off and on seems to be part of the routine and you just sort of get use to it. When Dash eats he sounds like he is snorkling in his food bowl when we are visiting my Dad my dad just sits and laughs at that noise.Dash is clearer now so the noise has not been bad the past several days.
Trevi can I ask where you live? It could be your dog inhaled something up his nose. That could explain the day of sneezing. If it was some sort of grass seed like a foxtail it then can make its way into the nasal tissue and keep traveling they can get real far pretty fast. They can cause major infections that would present as a pus pocket where ever they end up so you could have a big infection in there rather then cancer. Alot of funguses can do the same. They are more common in the southwestern parts of the US. We have had patient X-rays/CT's that showed a mass believed to be lung cancer only to then have it turn out to be a fungus. Dash had Xrays then had his nose scoped , He only got the CT because I was going to do palliative radiation. I had asked about a repeat CT a few months ago and the oncologist said if we saw something we have no way of knowing if it is infection or cancer that the only way to know is to rescope his nose. The Xray /Ct can only show something is there but does not answer the what question. Having the nose rescoped is expensive too but I decided not to do it and kept him on his metronomic therapy and added the neolplasene just incase the cancer was back.
When your dog had the seizure did you happen to notice if he was totally out of it or if his eyes were open looking at you? I ask because my friends border collie who did develop seizures in old age one day had what at first looked like a seizure only they noticed her eyes were open and she was looking at them. then her balance was off afterwards and it turned out is was vestibular disease wich is an inner ear thing. Maybe an inner ear thing like that could cause shaking too?
There is a form of cancer th at you can find on the surface of the nose but it would probably be more of a lesion and I think all of us have dogs with cancer that is in nasal cavity so really showed no outward signs such as you are have described. By the time most people have seen outward swelling the cancer is pretty advanced and I think it is often the whole eye area or even the whole muzzle swelling not a small bump, It seems like the majority of us experienced reverse sneezing , some bleeding , restlessness and heavy panting at nights. But I am also sure there are some dogs that showed no signs until they had a seizure and the cancer was in the brain so yes it could be cancer but I am hoping it is one of the other things I have mentioned or even the disk issue. I hope that you get to read this before you see the vet . I will be sending positive thoughts and prayers your way tomorrow.
Eginalsk, How is Scout doing?Wasn't he just getting over an infection?
Bill, any update on the meds Dr. Scanlan had you get? Do you still feel they have helped open Emmitt up?
Dash is doing real well right now and we now have two doses of neoplasene done again in which I have put 0.3ml down each nostril since both tend to bleed off and on and so far he is not all stuffed up like he had been getting. He had been trying to sneeze something out the past couple days and has violent head shaking sneezes yet nothing, also itching the nose on things .Well on his walk at the park today he stopped and had a couple violent sneezes and yet another rather large chunk of dark necrotic looking tissue came out, has had a lite trickle of blood since then. The Best part is after we got home and I was sitting on my couch he came in the room looked at me and raced over and jumped in my lap and snuggled with me until I had to get up to get make dinner. He use to always do that but it has been months since he has done it as he seems to want to be near me but not that close as he is too afraid that mean old me will pop a pill in his mouth, put neoplasene in his nose, eye drops in his left eye or even just wipe his nose.So he has been keeping a distance from me so this was such a great treat as this is my old Dash that I rather miss.This is the Dash that will live forever in my heart.
Hi Dashdog,
Thanks for your post. My vet actually called me late last night to talk. We discussed the CT scan and she didn't seem to think it would be a good idea. She said she would do whatever we wanted to do regarding aggressive therapy but she did not recommend it given what we have seen take place and of course the age of the dog. She has said that the positive response our dog has had with the prednisone would indicate we are dealing with a type of cancer. She said she is very concerned that he has had a seizure because she feels that it is a result of either the type of cancer that has metastizised into his brain or a cancer that has spread into his central nervous system. I told her about the numerous posts I read regarding other dog owners dealing with nasal cancer and the presence of nasal bleeding and discharge and she said not all dogs will experience nasal bleeding due to the fact of where the tumor may be growing. I will ask her about the rhinoscope option today and see what she thinks. The bump or swelling that is felt is located between his eyes concentrated on the right side. When you rub your finger over it you can feel the difference from the right and left side but it's not protruding out where you can tell by looking at it - you would have to rub your finger over it to feel it. We discussed the probability of it being a fungal infection but she said she did not think it was that given all the bloodwork that was done that came back negative and also our geographic location. We are located in the Pittsburgh area and prior to that we lived in Northern California (outside San Fran). The seizure episode was frightening to say the least. He basically went down and at first I thought he was choking on something because of how he was contorting his head back but then I quickly realized it wasn't that because it looked as though he was running in place and he then he was foaming at the mouth and just shaking terribly. His eyes were open but I can't say he was looking at me or my husband and he didn't go unconscious. It lasted about a minute or so and afterwards he was trying to get up but was wobbling around and then just started pacing around the kitchen at a medium gait - just going around and around the kitchen island. His back leg dragged slightly but as time went on he was walking ok.
Right now my vet said we can do 40mg of Pred a day, continue with the Ciproflaxin and she wants to add a low dose of Phenylbarbitrol (sp?) to his meds. She also mentioned having some Taradol (sp?) on hand as well. My dog is lightweight - very tough though and is not one of those dogs that will tell you he is in pain. He is very stoic that way and is really tough - he manages pain very well which is sad because I never know until something is really bad that he is not feeling well. He needs half and sometimes a quarter of the dose normal dogs need for any type of sedative or anesthesia. It just breaks my heart. I asked the vet what she thinks our timing is and she said the whole seizure episode scares her because of its implications. She said something like this is a very scary thing because it could be minutes or it could be months. There obviously is no way of knowing what will happen. I just don't do well without knowing every detail of a situation and I hate feeling like I am blindly treating something I don't have a full grasp on. She is a wonderful vet and the fact that she called me late last night to talk - speaks volumes to me. She is very much about quality of life and she is realistic. When I asked her what she would do if this were her dog - she said she do the same (i.e Prednisone, try the Phenylbarbitol, etc) but also have a plan in place and understand and be aware of what may happen and to be good to our dog. She said we would know when the time was right to let him go and told us not to feel guilty about it. I just hope that I am doing the right thing. I love my dog so much and I am just hoping for the best. I am frightened for every minute of the day that goes by whether he will have another seizure. I understand that he is not necessarily in pain when it happens but it's just not what I would want for my Dakota. My happy, go lucky, playful best friend is slowly slipping away and I don't really know why. I just can't bear the thought of him not being around. I've been sleeping downstairs with him and last night he crawled into my lap and fell asleep. He hasn't done that in awhile. It truly breaks my heart.
I will be speaking to my vet again today and will ask her about the rhinoscope and the vestibular disease. I did read about that online a few weeks back. Thank you for your prayers and positive thoughts. I will let everyone know what she says.
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Brittany Spaniel with possible nasal cancer/tumor
