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The schools up here are so far ahead of Florida, it's unbelievable. I will say the school my daughter was in back in FL was pretty good, but not like the one up here. My state came in at #2.
"Yes we just love spending time here complaining . Our purpose here is to help people know the truth before relocating to an area , good or bad. Most of my posts are positive except when people ask for the truth on Florida. I know they already have their minds made up and nothing will change it. They really only want to read posts from people who tell them what they want to hear.
1) Am I putting the interests of my family first?
2) If I lose my job will I be able to find another one that pays well?
3) How long are the private schools waiting lists?
4) Can I handle the ungodly humidity?
5) Do I want to move to a state filled with sex offenders?
6) Do I know what MY property taxes will be ? [not the previous owners]
7) Do I want to deal with Hurricanes?
8) Do I want a high cost of living?
9) Can I handle the influx of snowbirds every winter?
10) Do I want to pay high insurance premiums?
11) Do I want to live in a transient state where I will never know who my NEW neighbors will be?
12) Do I enjoy rude people?
13) Will I miss my family and friends back home?
14) Do I like sharing my home with giant cockroaches after it rains?
15) Do I like living in a drug infested state?
16) etc,etc,etc, I could go on and on !"
Again, I must not be understanding fully. This post is supposed to be the TRUTH about Florida....all of Florida....the whole entire north, south, east, west of Florida?? Except for maybe some posters here, I have not encountered rude people, have not shared my home with giant cockroaches, have not lived among junkies, I have met my neighbors, all very nice by the way, and many are natives to the state, and thank God have not been a victim of any crime. Yes I have experienced heat, which I expected and part of the reason I moved here, I have experienced the cost of living, which by the way is cheaper than where I moved from, and I have experienced the beauty of Florida too. I drive every morning to work and look at the sunrise over lakes with giant fountains in them, people busily walking their dogs or jogging. After dinner I watch the sunset over the lake behind my home and think how lucky I am to live here. I do feel for those forced to stay here by employment, family siutations, and other personal issues because I, too, wouldn't want to live in a place I hated. However, people need to be fair about sharing their own perspectives with others and not blame the entire state for their particular experiences. Just like I would never say all of Florida is wonderful, I don't think it is just to say all of Florida is hell either.
Yeah, that list of questions was added after I saw that post. It's a good example of some folks not quite getting the idea of what facts are. Almost every question presented there either (1) directly or implicitly is about an opinion rather than a fact, (2) a gross exaggeration based on subjective responses to some things that are facts, but not at all factual as stated in the question, or (3) An unknown as presented (but actually covering up an opinion given the views of the person asking as evidenced in other posts) . Yet it's trumpeted as being "the truth".
It's not the case that everything one believes is a fact or is the truth. I wouldn't have a problem with "The truth in my eyes", but without specifying that, it's misleadingly presented as referring to objective states of affairs only (although I personally don't believe that anyone with a reasonable amount of intelligence would have a problem seeing through this anyway).
But just for gits n' shiggles, here are the problems with each of those questions:
1) "Am I putting the interests of my family first?"
It's not a fact that one should give one person or another priority when making a decision. That can only be an opinion. I happen to share the opinion that one should not put one's own interests over one's family's interests when one is married, has kids, etc., but I'm not about to pretend that it's not just an opinion, that it's factual somehow.
2) "If I lose my job will I be able to find another one that pays well?"
There's no way to tell if a particular individual will be able to find another well-paying job without them actually entering the market and trying to get a job. This is one of the questions that seems innocuous, but the poster believes that the answer is "No", because of their subjective reaction to the presently higher unemployment rates in their area and across the state (and also perhaps personal difficulties finding a satisfactory (to them, of course) job--but that would be projection to assume that everyone is going to be in one's own boat).
3) "How long are the private schools waiting lists?"
Another question presented as innocuous, but that implicitly contains the opinion that the public schools in Florida are no good. Whether anything is good or not is an opinon, never a fact.
4) "Can I handle the ungodly humidity?"
I can't imagine that anyone would have difficulty realizing that calling anything "ungodly" in that manner is an opinion rather than a fact. But maybe I'm being too generous there.
5) "Do I want to move to a state filled with sex offenders?"
One of the gross exaggeration questions. It's not a fact that any state is "filled with sex offenders". Florida certainly has sex offenders, as do other states, but this question is sourced in the person's subjective reaction to the idea of sex offenders and their belief (which may be correlated to a fact or not--I'd have to research it) that per the official reporting, Florida has more sex offenders (not sure if the claim would be as an absolute number or per capita or both) than other states. I also have opinions about the classification of sex offenders (which would probably be quite different than this person's), about having databases of people who have been convicted as sex offenders (ditto), and there are also facts about differences in sex offender reporting in different states.
6) "Do I know what MY property taxes will be ? [not the previous owners]"
Maybe one of the couple really innocuous question here--although unlike other issues, I don't know this poster's beliefs about this. The facts is that your property tax could very well be lower than the property tax quoted to you when you're in buying mode.
7) "Do I want to deal with Hurricanes?"
It's certainly a fact that Florida gets hurricanes, and that one will need to prepare for them. No problems with this one (although it might be covering up a belief that you WILL have to experience a hurricane, that it WILL damage your home, etc.--and there are no such certainties).
8) "Do I want a high cost of living?"
While there are facts that the cost of living in some areas, comparing the same things in both areas, can be relatively higher. the cost of living in those areas will also be relatively lower than other areas. It's not at all a fact that a given person will believe that the cost of living somewhere is high--even if it is relatively higher, comparing just the same things, than where that person was previously living. (They could believe, for example, that the cost of living where they had been was ridiculously low, and the cost of living in their new location is a relatively higher, but it's still low.) Presenting facts for this question would involve presenting just how much homes cost given various criteria, just how much gas costs, just how much a loaf of bread costs, etc., not the opinion that it is high in one's view.
9) "Can I handle the influx of snowbirds every winter?"
Fairly transparently, this question contains the opinion that snowbirds are a problem rather than an asset. It's certainly not a fact that they're a problem. It is a fact that there are more people in the state during the relatively cooler months. Whether you mind that is not a fact. And depending on where one is in the state, the difference may be zero or negligible--not every area gets a lot of seasonal residents or tourists. Also, even if you live in an area that does get a lot of seasonal residents or tourists, you might hardly notice that. I hardly noticed it when I last lived in Florida--but of course, I don't at all mind that there are seasonal residents and tourists.
10) "Do I want to pay high insurance premiums?"
Same exact problems as question (8) above.
11) "Do I want to live in a transient state where I will never know who my NEW neighbors will be?"
"Transient" is actually an assessment term there rather than a factual term, and in this case it is embedded with the opinion that transiency is a bad thing. It's certainly a fact that there are seasonal residents of Florida and that there are people moving in and out over relatively short periods of time. However, Florida isn't unique in that, and it's difficult to compare numbers on it with other states given that people are not constantly tracked by the government. It may be reasonable to say that Florida has more transiency than North Dakota, say (although maybe I just do not know enough about North Dakota), but does it have more transiency per capita than Nevada, California, New York, or even places like Idaho (which has lots of tourists and seasonal residents from places like California) or even Wyoming (ditto, plus busts and booms depending on discoveries of natural resources)? It's difficult to say. Also, while it's not impossible that one could know who one's neighbors are prior to moving somewhere, how likely is it that one will know most of them (unless we just mean the folks living right next door), and how well will one know them--in just what sense is "know" being used here? I think that, given how much one is likely to know about neighbors prior to moving somewhere, that portion of the question might be referring to opinions that I'd rather not comment on.
12) "Do I enjoy rude people?"
Like question (4), it's difficult to imagine anyone reading the phrase "rude people" and believing that it's anything other than an opinion. Is there anyone who really believes that it can be a fact that people are rude so that, even if one were to think that the people in question were really nice, they could be wrong, because it's factually the case that they're rude instead? I'd like to hear about how those folks think such facts work.
13) "Will I miss my family and friends back home?"
While that question wouldn't have anything to do with facts rather than opinions (aside from it being a fact that the person in question has whatever opinion they do), I agree it's a good one to ask if someone will be moving away from family and friends.
14) "Do I like sharing my home with giant cockroaches after it rains?"
Another gross exaggeration question. Florida, just like everywhere else in the world, has cockroaches and other insects, and Florida, being subtropical, also has large cockroaches. But it's simply not a fact that everyone's house has cockroaches--whether it's right after a rain or not. And in most of the houses I've been in that tended to have cockroaches (like one apartment I rented in West Palm Beach) it didn't make any difference whether it had just rained or not. However, it is a fact that palmetto bugs (the large cockroaches) typically live outside rather than inside. Maybe the person asking the question has had cockroach problems and not taken care of them very well. They can be controlled in Florida.
15) "Do I like living in a drug infested state?"
Another gross exaggeration question similar to the above. Florida, just like everywhere else in the world, is a place where people can and some people do buy and use or sell/distribute illegal drugs. Drugs are not difficult to find anywhere that I've been in the world (all over the US, many foreign countries) if one wants to find them (I've traveled extensively as a musician, for one, so I have seen lots of drug activity). It's not a fact that Florida is "drug-infested", where that's suggesting that (1) it's much worse than anywhere else, and (2) it's a problem that everyone living there is going to have to deal with. That's an opinion.
16) "etc,etc,etc, I could go on and on !"
I could go on and on pointing out how these "Just telling the truth" folks are doing anything but that. But it's a lot of work--it took me awhile to write this post, and I think that most people are intelligent enough that they wouldn't need it explained.
It's also not that it doesn't happen from the other side--sometimes the cheerleaders seem to have a problem separating opinons from facts, too. But for whatever reason, it seems to happen more with the Chicken Littles.
Last edited by Tungsten_Udder; 11-05-2008 at 06:55 AM..
Yeah, that list of questions was added after I saw that post. It's a good example of some folks not quite getting the idea of what facts are. Almost every question presented there either (1) directly or implicitly is about an opinion rather than a fact, (2) a gross exaggeration based on subjective responses to some things that are facts, but not at all factual as stated in the question, or (3) An unknown as presented (but actually covering up an opinion given the views of the person asking as evidenced in other posts) . Yet it's trumpeted as being "the truth".
It's not the case that everything one believes is a fact or is the truth. I wouldn't have a problem with "The truth in my eyes", but without specifying that, it's misleadingly presented as referring to objective states of affairs only (although I personally don't believe that anyone with a reasonable amount of intelligence would have a problem seeing through this anyway).
But just for gits n' shiggles, here are the problems with each of those questions:
1) "Am I putting the interests of my family first?"
It's not a fact that one should give one person or another priority when making a decision. That can only be an opinion. I happen to share the opinion that one should not put one's own interests over one's family's interests when one is married, has kids, etc., but I'm not about to pretend that it's not just an opinion, that it's factual somehow.
2) "If I lose my job will I be able to find another one that pays well?"
There's no way to tell if a particular individual will be able to find another well-paying job without them actually entering the market and trying to get a job. This is one of the questions that seems innocuous, but the poster believes that the answer is "No", because of their subjective reaction to the presently higher unemployment rates in their area and across the state (and also perhaps personal difficulties finding a satisfactory (to them, of course) job--but that would be projection to assume that everyone is going to be in one's own boat).
3) "How long are the private schools waiting lists?"
Another question presented as innocuous, but that implicitly contains the opinion that the public schools in Florida are no good. Whether anything is good or not is an opinon, never a fact.
4) "Can I handle the ungodly humidity?"
I can't imagine that anyone would have difficulty realizing that calling anything "ungodly" in that manner is an opinion rather than a fact. But maybe I'm being too generous there.
5) "Do I want to move to a state filled with sex offenders?"
One of the gross exaggeration questions. It's not a fact that any state is "filled with sex offenders". Florida certainly has sex offenders, as do other states, but this question is sourced in the person's subjective reaction to the idea of sex offenders and their belief (which may be correlated to a fact or not--I'd have to research it) that per the official reporting, Florida has more sex offenders (not sure if the claim would be as an absolute number or per capita or both) than other states. I also have opinions about the classification of sex offenders (which would probably be quite different than this person's), about having databases of people who have been convicted as sex offenders (ditto), and there are also facts about differences in sex offender reporting in different states.
6) "Do I know what MY property taxes will be ? [not the previous owners]"
Maybe one of the couple really innocuous question here--although unlike other issues, I don't know this poster's beliefs about this. The facts is that your property tax could very well be lower than the property tax quoted to you when you're in buying mode.
7) "Do I want to deal with Hurricanes?"
It's certainly a fact that Florida gets hurricanes, and that one will need to prepare for them. No problems with this one (although it might be covering up a belief that you WILL have to experience a hurricane, that it WILL damage your home, etc.--and there are no such certainties).
8) "Do I want a high cost of living?"
While there are facts that the cost of living in some areas, comparing the same things in both areas, can be relatively higher. the cost of living in those areas will also be relatively lower than other areas. It's not at all a fact that a given person will believe that the cost of living somewhere is high--even if it is relatively higher, comparing just the same things, than where that person was previously living. (They could believe, for example, that the cost of living where they had been was ridiculously low, and the cost of living in their new location is a relatively higher, but it's still low.) Presenting facts for this question would involve presenting just how much homes cost given various criteria, just how much gas costs, just how much a loaf of bread costs, etc., not the opinion that it is high in one's view.
9) "Can I handle the influx of snowbirds every winter?"
Fairly transparently, this question contains the opinion that snowbirds are a problem rather than an asset. It's certainly not a fact that they're a problem. It is a fact that there are more people in the state during the relatively cooler months. Whether you mind that is not a fact. And depending on where one is in the state, the difference may be zero or negligible--not every area gets a lot of seasonal residents or tourists. Also, even if you live in an area that does get a lot of seasonal residents or tourists, you might hardly notice that. I hardly noticed it when I last lived in Florida--but of course, I don't at all mind that there are seasonal residents and tourists.
10) "Do I want to pay high insurance premiums?"
Same exact problems as question (8) above.
11) "Do I want to live in a transient state where I will never know who my NEW neighbors will be?"
"Transient" is actually an assessment term there rather than a factual term, and in this case it is embedded with the opinion that transiency is a bad thing. It's certainly a fact that there are seasonal residents of Florida and that there are people moving in and out over relatively short periods of time. However, Florida isn't unique in that, and it's difficult to compare numbers on it with other states given that people are not constantly tracked by the government. It may be reasonable to say that Florida has more transiency than North Dakota, say (although maybe I just do not know enough about North Dakota), but does it have more transiency per capita than Nevada, California, New York, or even places like Idaho (which has lots of tourists and seasonal residents from places like California) or even Wyoming (ditto, plus busts and booms depending on discoveries of natural resources)? It's difficult to say. Also, while it's not impossible that one could know who one's neighbors are prior to moving somewhere, how likely is it that one will know most of them (unless we just mean the folks living right next door), and how well will one know them--in just what sense is "know" being used here? I think that, given how much one is likely to know about neighbors prior to moving somewhere, that portion of the question might be referring to opinions that I'd rather not comment on.
12) "Do I enjoy rude people?"
Like question (4), it's difficult to imagine anyone reading the phrase "rude people" and believing that it's anything other than an opinion. Is there anyone who really believes that it can be a fact that people are rude so that, even if one were to think that the people in question were really nice, they could be wrong, because it's factually the case that they're rude instead? I'd like to hear about how those folks think such facts work.
13) "Will I miss my family and friends back home?"
While that question wouldn't have anything to do with facts rather than opinions (aside from it being a fact that the person in question has whatever opinion they do), I agree it's a good one to ask if someone will be moving away from family and friends.
14) "Do I like sharing my home with giant cockroaches after it rains?"
Another gross exaggeration question. Florida, just like everywhere else in the world, has cockroaches and other insects, and Florida, being subtropical, also has large cockroaches. But it's simply not a fact that everyone's house has cockroaches--whether it's right after a rain or not. And in most of the houses I've been in that tended to have cockroaches (like one apartment I rented in West Palm Beach) it didn't make any difference whether it had just rained or not. However, it is a fact that palmetto bugs (the large cockroaches) typically live outside rather than inside. Maybe the person asking the question has had cockroach problems and not taken care of them very well. They can be controlled in Florida.
15) "Do I like living in a drug infested state?"
Another gross exaggeration question similar to the above. Florida, just like everywhere else in the world, is a place where people can and some people do buy and use or sell/distribute illegal drugs. Drugs are not difficult to find anywhere that I've been in the world (all over the US, many foreign countries) if one wants to find them (I've traveled extensively as a musician, for one, so I have seen lots of drug activity). It's not a fact that Florida is "drug-infested", where that's suggesting that (1) it's much worse than anywhere else, and (2) it's a problem that everyone living there is going to have to deal with. That's an opinion.
16) "etc,etc,etc, I could go on and on !"
I could go on and on pointing out how these "Just telling the truth" folks are doing anything but that. But it's a lot of work--it took me awhile to write this post, and I think that most people are intelligent enough that they wouldn't need it explained.
It's also not that it doesn't happen from the other side--sometimes the cheerleaders seem to have a problem separating opinons from facts, too. But for whatever reason, it seems to happen more with the Chicken Littles.
Tungsten - that was one of your best posts yet, I really appreciate the time you took to think it all out and type it up. I am sure others here appreciate it as well. It is exasperating to see negative posts over and over that blanket the ENTIRE STATE with "opinions" presented as facts. It is certainly not fair to newcomers to this site who are looking for true information.
It's been my experience in my two years on this forum that there aren't really very many actual "cheerleaders" here who only present positives. I just think that many people are just happy and contented and are just not seeing things the same way. We are here because we want to be and we love it here. I understand that some folks are here against their wishes, but it hardly seems constructive to sit on a message board day after day and vent their frustrations against the entire state. That is not good for one's health.
Thanks again, tungsten, this board definitely needs you here.
Yeah, that list of questions was added after I saw that post. It's a good example of some folks not quite getting the idea of what facts are.
Check the time of the post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tungsten_Udder
Almost every question presented there either (1) directly or implicitly is about an opinion rather than a fact, (2) a gross exaggeration based on subjective responses to some things that are facts, but not at all factual as stated in the question, or (3) An unknown as presented (but actually covering up an opinion given the views of the person asking as evidenced in other posts) . Yet it's trumpeted as being "the truth".
It's not the case that everything one believes is a fact or is the truth. I wouldn't have a problem with "The truth in my eyes", but without specifying that, it's misleadingly presented as referring to objective states of affairs only (although I personally don't believe that anyone with a reasonable amount of intelligence would have a problem seeing through this anyway).
My opinion is that I don't like living in Florida due to the many facts presented. Florida is a huge state and if I was living in a different part I might have a different opinion.
Not everyone loves living here, no big deal. Some of the so called "cheerleaders" like to insult, attack, and pick fights with those they don't agree with as is clearly evident in this thread and many others. If people could only see the deleted posts from the "cheerleaders"..............
I will continue to take the high road and my mouth. Anyone reading any opinion should click on the username and read all their posts. I stand behind every single post of mine. I NEVER insult ,attack, or pick fights with those I disagree with........I debate the issues.
Can't we just agree that we disagree? . We should be helping the thread starter and stop the bickering back and forth that helps no one.
Can't we just agree that we disagree? . We should be helping the thread starter and stop the bickering back and forth that helps no one.
I have absolutely no problem with folks disagreeing--no matter what someone's opinion is. Anyone can have any opinion that they like. However, I do and will continue to have a problem with claiming that opinions are facts, that some opinions are "just presenting the truth".
I have absolutely no problem with folks disagreeing--no matter what someone's opinion is. Anyone can have any opinion that they like. However, I do and will continue to have a problem with claiming that opinions are facts, that some opinions are "just presenting the truth".
The past presidential campaign was filled with "facts" that were almost always derogatory to the opposing candidate. Anyone can create a study or theorize based upon the facts, but a very fine line can be drawn between distorted facts and the truth. The use of statistics based upon reliable research can often be interpreted to suit the opinion of the user. That would be an extension of one's opinion, would it not?
This is a forum that is an open exchange of ideas and thoughts. It would be pompous of any individual to think that his/her thoughts are more viable because "they read it somewhere like Wikipedia and it has to be true (or not).
The past presidential campaign was filled with "facts" that were almost always derogatory to the opposing candidate.
I didn't pay much attention to the campaigning--I see it all as marketing, just like trying to sell a cellular phone service, say. So I have little doubt that quotation marks are appropriate there.
Quote:
The use of statistics based upon reliable research can often be interpreted to suit the opinion of the user. That would be an extension of one's opinion, would it not?
Interpretations would be subjective and opinions would be opinions, sure.
Quote:
This is a forum that is an open exchange of ideas and thoughts. It would be pompous of any individual to think that his/her thoughts are more viable because "they read it somewhere like Wikipedia and it has to be true (or not).
I'm just not sure what that has to do with calling people on claiming that their opinions, and contra the opinions of others, are "just the truth" or simply factual.
runner up: being in an area with lots of hot people to look at (eye candy)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Going-2-Florida
We are looking into moving to Florida in the future. After reading several post here it is not clear what people who live in Florida would feel is the single most important question that someone should ask before moving to Florida.
With that said jobs are not an issue as we can both transfer easily and have already checked into this.
So what question should someone looking around the state of Florida should be asking or looking into?
"Yes we just love spending time here complaining . Our purpose here is to help people know the truth before relocating to an area , good or bad. Most of my posts are positive except when people ask for the truth on Florida. I know they already have their minds made up and nothing will change it. They really only want to read posts from people who tell them what they want to hear.
1) Am I putting the interests of my family first?
2) If I lose my job will I be able to find another one that pays well?
3) How long are the private schools waiting lists?
4) Can I handle the ungodly humidity?
5) Do I want to move to a state filled with sex offenders?
6) Do I know what MY property taxes will be ? [not the previous owners]
7) Do I want to deal with Hurricanes?
8) Do I want a high cost of living?
9) Can I handle the influx of snowbirds every winter?
10) Do I want to pay high insurance premiums?
11) Do I want to live in a transient state where I will never know who my NEW neighbors will be?
12) Do I enjoy rude people?
13) Will I miss my family and friends back home?
14) Do I like sharing my home with giant cockroaches after it rains?
15) Do I like living in a drug infested state?
16) etc,etc,etc, I could go on and on !"
...17. Did you know that if you move to Florida, a burglar will break into your house at least once a month?
18. Are you aware that every inch of Florida is exactly the same?
19. Even if you have friends and family in Florida, do they count since they live in Florida? (They might be rude people).
20. Did you know that they ship more toilets to Florida than other other state just so they can provide toilet-cleaning jobs to intentionally make for a low-wage economy?
Many more to come if I have the time (or have the lack thereof).
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my mouth. Anyone reading any opinion should click on the username and read all their posts. I stand behind every single post of mine. I NEVER insult ,attack, or pick fights with those I disagree with........I debate the issues.
. We should be helping the thread starter and stop the bickering back and forth that helps no one. 
