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Old 08-06-2012, 07:13 PM
 
Location: Bel Air, California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
It's amazing, then, that all the cowboys who did those cattle drives singing yippie-i-o never set foot in the west.
I guess Deadwood, South Dakota and Dodge City, Kansas were never part of the West either.
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Old 08-06-2012, 07:45 PM
 
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At western edge of the Mississippi River Valley (approx 65 miles west of the river.)
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Old 08-06-2012, 09:38 PM
 
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Mountain time zone?
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:42 PM
 
Location: The Heart of Dixie
7,826 posts, read 12,344,313 times
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Driving across the country, the first Western cities to me were Colorado Springs and Denver. Kansas City and Topeka definitely did not have a western feel. When we hit Colorado Springs, and then went to Denver, there was a definite western feel in the landscape, the development, history, etc. Kansas City and Topeka were definitely Midwestern.

Toward the south, I also think that Fort Worth is still the gateway to the West. However, Dallas really didn't have a western feel, in fact Dallas had an "anywhere" feel that goes with its modern, cosmopolitan and international nature. I consider the Texas Panhandle and West Texas to be western too, though East Texas is Southern to me. I'm really not sure how I would classify Oklahoma City.

But these cities are definitely Western to me:
Fort Worth
Denver
Colorado Springs
Albuquerque
Santa Fe
El Paso
Abilene
Amarillo
Lubbock
and anything to the west of these
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Old 08-07-2012, 11:18 AM
 
10,167 posts, read 17,129,200 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70 View Post
Driving across the country, the first Western cities to me were Colorado Springs and Denver. Kansas City and Topeka definitely did not have a western feel. When we hit Colorado Springs, and then went to Denver, there was a definite western feel in the landscape, the development, history, etc. Kansas City and Topeka were definitely Midwestern.

Toward the south, I also think that Fort Worth is still the gateway to the West. However, Dallas really didn't have a western feel, in fact Dallas had an "anywhere" feel that goes with its modern, cosmopolitan and international nature. I consider the Texas Panhandle and West Texas to be western too, though East Texas is Southern to me. I'm really not sure how I would classify Oklahoma City.

But these cities are definitely Western to me:
Fort Worth
Denver
Colorado Springs
Albuquerque
Santa Fe
El Paso
Abilene
Amarillo
Lubbock
and anything to the west of these
What seems to be going on here, in some ways, are people talking past one another. I am not necessarily picking out TomL's post as a point of contension (and I will say for the record he always writes great and thought out posts! )...but only that the general points made are a perfect illustration of my own point. That is, that often we talk past one another.

There is a difference in a seperation of the East and West...as opposed to the South and West or Midwest and West..

The former choice seperates/divides (along mildly debatable lines), the eastern United States from the western United states in the sense of climate/topography/landscape... and where post-bellum settlement history really began.

In that scenario? In terms of inter-state divisions? Yeah... I would agree the general I-35 W divide is a fairly good one...

BUT...in terms of true history and culture and all that entails? Then it is quite different. . In that regard, Kansas is "western"...but essentially Midwestern as applies to settlement patterns, speech, religion, politics, etc. Same as Texas is essentially Southern in the same regard. The two "western states" (Kansas and Texas) are not even in the same region (historically and culturally) with one another, much less with states like Wyoming and Nevada which are truly "The West"...and nothing in the least "Midwestern" or "Southern" about them.
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Old 08-07-2012, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 4,233,455 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasReb View Post
What seems to be going on here, in some ways, are people talking past one another. I am not necessarily picking out TomL's post as a point of contension (and I will say for the record he always writes great and thought out posts! )...but only that the general points made are a perfect illustration of my own point. That is, that often we talk past one another.

There is a difference in a seperation of the East and West...as opposed to the South and West or Midwest and West..

The former choice seperates/divides (along mildly debatable lines), the eastern United States from the western United states in the sense of climate/topography/landscape... and where post-bellum settlement history really began.

In that scenario? In terms of inter-state divisions? Yeah... I would agree the general I-35 W divide is a fairly good one...

BUT...in terms of true history and culture and all that entails? Then it is quite different. . In that regard, Kansas is "western"...but essentially Midwestern as applies to settlement patterns, speech, religion, politics, etc. Same as Texas is essentially Southern in the same regard. The two "western states" (Kansas and Texas) are not even in the same region (historically and culturally) with one another, much less with states like Wyoming and Nevada which are truly "The West"...and nothing in the least "Midwestern" or "Southern" about them.
I really can't agree though that Fort Worth is part of the West...it's essentially a continuation of the city of Dallas. I see Amarillo, Austin, and Dallas as being more southern than western. When I was there, southern dialects and southern culture are still very much present.

At least 3/4 of Texas fits in better with the south than the west. In fact as far as southern influences go, Eastern New Mexico has a huge amount of southern influence. So that calls into question even the 1/4 of the state of Texas I outlined. I really cannot say there is any part of texas that I can say is "not southern" in any way, shape, or form. Even El Paso has southern influence.

San Antonio may be enough to be blurred as definitively southern, but it still has southern influence.
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Old 08-07-2012, 01:15 PM
 
10,167 posts, read 17,129,200 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisan View Post
I really can't agree though that Fort Worth is part of the West...it's essentially a continuation of the city of Dallas. I see Amarillo, Austin, and Dallas as being more southern than western. When I was there, southern dialects and southern culture are still very much present.

At least 3/4 of Texas fits in better with the south than the west. In fact as far as southern influences go, Eastern New Mexico has a huge amount of southern influence. So that calls into question even the 1/4 of the state of Texas I outlined. I really cannot say there is any part of texas that I can say is "not southern" in any way, shape, or form. Even El Paso has southern influence.

San Antonio may be enough to be blurred as definitively southern, but it still has southern influence.
Of COURSE I agree with you, my friend, on this point. BUT...I think we (which is VERY rare, with us! ) are just not quite agreeing...but just need a re-connected wire here! LOL

That is, there is the "West" of the Rocky Mountains and Interior Southwest...and Texas is just NOT part of it in terms of history/culture when it really comes down to it. Texas (see the above post) is "western" in the same sense that Tennessee is "eastern".

Otherwise? Both are Southern in all the ways that matter. Hell, even El Paso has a Confederate monument on its courthouse square!
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Old 08-07-2012, 01:20 PM
 
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
1,154 posts, read 3,967,873 times
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Helena, Montana has a confederate monument in Hill Park about a mile from the capitol building.
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Old 08-07-2012, 01:29 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,992 posts, read 42,037,172 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYMTman View Post
Helena, Montana has a confederate monument in Hill Park about a mile from the capitol building.
Doesn't mean much. They've been placed in lots of places:

http://sundown.afro.illinois.edu/sli...ay.php?slide=4

though definitely not in New England.
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Old 08-07-2012, 01:33 PM
 
Location: The heart of Cascadia
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I would say the West begins once you can see the Rocky Mountains. Those parts of Colorado, MT and Wyoming in the plains where you can't see the mountains IMO are the Midwest.
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