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Forgive me as I haven't read the entire thread. Just wanted to put in my .02.
Honestly to answer the question, I don't know if people are born gay or if they had severe bad experiences with the opposite sex and so decided to give that a try instead.
I could understand how that could happen. I haven't had any really bad experiences with men, but I did lose my husband several years ago and have been single since. Mainly because my husband was a hard act to follow. I've even had thoughts that a relationship with a woman would be less emotionally risky, but I know that wouldn't be true and besides, I am too straight lol.
Having said all that, It is my opinion that people be allowed to be whoever they want to be and to love whomever they choose. Love is love no matter what sex it comes in, and other peoples love lives are none of anybody elses business. The divorce rate in this country is so high, so who can say that opposite sex couples are the happiest anyway ?
As far as religion goes (and I'm more spiritual then religous), I believe that God would want us to be happy, whatever that takes as life on this planet can be like one long personal version of Hell, quite frankly. I think God is all about love rather then the bloodthirsty bastard hell-bent on punishment that a lot of people think he is.
Location: Currently I physically reside on the 3rd planet from the sun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandon
Forgive me as I haven't read the entire thread. Just wanted to put in my .02.
Honestly to answer the question, I don't know if people are born gay or if they had severe bad experiences with the opposite sex and so decided to give that a try instead.
I could understand how that could happen. I haven't had any really bad experiences with men, but I did lose my husband several years ago and have been single since. Mainly because my husband was a hard act to follow. I've even had thoughts that a relationship with a woman would be less emotionally risky, but I know that wouldn't be true and besides, I am too straight lol.
Having said all that, It is my opinion that people be allowed to be whoever they want to be and to love whomever they choose. Love is love no matter what sex it comes in, and other peoples love lives are none of anybody elses business. The divorce rate in this country is so high, so who can say that opposite sex couples are the happiest anyway ?
As far as religion goes (and I'm more spiritual then religous), I believe that God would want us to be happy, whatever that takes as life on this planet can be like one long personal version of Hell, quite frankly. I think God is all about love rather then the bloodthirsty bastard hell-bent on punishment that a lot of people think he is.
When you say "God" I assume you mean "God" in the sense of the Judeo-Christian tradition. It is interesting to read the New and Old Testaments and see the difference in the representation of "God". I only speak from opinion, but it seems the "God" of the Old Testament was a "War God" as you describe intimately involved with his worshippers in an actively physical way intervening on their behalf and leading them into confrontations.
Salvation comes from a clearly defined "set" of rules and while personal morality is encouraged it is not required.
The "God" of the New Testament is a peace maker and arguably was killed because of this. The Requirements for Salvation in the Old Testament is fufilled by the sacrafice of the New God and Salvation now comes from an imposition on individuals to act morally and acknowledge the sacrifice of the New God.
This is my interpretation anyway.
Either way, I don't expect lightning bolts from heaven slamming down in to anyones bedroom.
I'm coming in on this discussion real late and I don't have time to read all the replies so I'll just tell my personal experience and all I can say is that while I've explored this issue in depth for the last 3 years or so, I'm still very much confused.
First, 3 years ago, my very feminine daughter came out gay and said she had never been attracted to boys, only girls. It was a bit of a shock, as I hadn't seen it coming, but fortunately for me, I'm rather liberal about these things, so I reassured her that she's still my daughter and I love her no matter what. I didn't see much reason to punish her for her tastes/choices/identity, whatever you want to call it.
Then six months later, my ex came out as well after a 23 year marriage and he confided that he had known of this "interest" since he first became sexually aware but was so ashamed and horrified by it that he never acted on it. At 50 though, it got to be too much to hide and it was causing problems in our marriage (as you can well imagine!) but again, he didn't seem gay at all--just a regular, slightly frumpy guy. And I got to thinking--his grandfather was also gay! This man was effeminate though and he was married for a number of years, but his wife had found out at some point and though he never spoke of it, the man didn't take pains to hide his lifestyle either. (What I said when I found out about my husband: thank God that divorce is now an option. I can't imagine what that poor woman went through--I never met her as she had passed away.)
So, is this coincidence, or is there something in the theory about genetics? Both probably, but I spoke with a psychiatrist about it and he said that research is pointing to the fact that genetics may have a very big part in it, though maybe not so directly as whether Megan will get blue eyes from mom or brown eyes from dad. To me, it doesn't really matter, but I do believe that it's not just a matter of choice, because I know for a fact that my ex truly did not wish to be gay, but could no longer deny it. He felt that he had a choice at first, but that changed as he got older.
I personally tend to believe that your orientation is determined by which gender you develop feelings for. I think women are attractive, very much so, but I have never developed feelings for one beyond a close friendship, and have no desire to kiss one ever, so I'm guessing I'm purely straight, but my dd said she can't stand the idea of kissing a boy. I'm not sure I believe it anymore, but the ex swore that he'd had feelings for me, so maybe he is purely bi and we were married a very long time. Who knows?
The theory I've heard that makes the most sense to me is that sexuality is a spectrum. Very few people are 100 percent gay or 100 percent straight. Most people fall somewhere in between.
When you say "God" I assume you mean "God" in the sense of the Judeo-Christian tradition. It is interesting to read the New and Old Testaments and see the difference in the representation of "God". I only speak from opinion, but it seems the "God" of the Old Testament was a "War God" as you describe intimately involved with his worshippers in an actively physical way intervening on their behalf and leading them into confrontations.
Salvation comes from a clearly defined "set" of rules and while personal morality is encouraged it is not required.
The "God" of the New Testament is a peace maker and arguably was killed because of this. The Requirements for Salvation in the Old Testament is fufilled by the sacrafice of the New God and Salvation now comes from an imposition on individuals to act morally and acknowledge the sacrifice of the New God.
This is my interpretation anyway.
Either way, I don't expect lightning bolts from heaven slamming down in to anyones bedroom.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raphael07
The theory I've heard that makes the most sense to me is that sexuality is a spectrum. Very few people are 100 percent gay or 100 percent straight. Most people fall somewhere in between.
.Honestly to answer the question, I don't know if people are born gay or if they had severe bad experiences with the opposite sex and so decided to give that a try instead.
This has little or nothing to do with it. I'd suggest gay people may have bad experiences in opposite sex intimate relationships BECAUSE they're gay, not the other way around.
Until science can prove that people can be born a homosexual, then I think it's purely by choice. I still don't agree that someone can go homosexual after being married and having 3 kids. They're bisexual, if anything.
And no, I am not homophobic either. If someone falls in love or has sex with another person of the same sex, that is their business alone. More power to them.
Until science can prove that people can be born a homosexual, then I think it's purely by choice..
The thing is...a lot of people who say this will NEVER be convinced, no matter how much evidence is put foward. I'm gay but I will admit there needs to be more reseearch before before it's scientifically proven. But my common sense tells me it is biology. Nobody who's gay actually wants to be, especially in their teen years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joke Insurance
I still don't agree that someone can go homosexual after being married and having 3 kids. They're bisexual, if anything..
Dude, you don't have a clue. Gay men from very religious/traditional backgrounds are very adept at repressing their homosexual inclinations. Of course, eventually those inclinations pop out. I have met more than one gay man from such a background. One guy had 8 kids and he didn't come out of the closet until he had a nervous breakdown. His doctor told him he was going to die unless he came out of the closet. This man was an extreme example, but I have seen quite a few of what i call "gay overcompensators". These are the gay men who will go to great lengths to be the "perfect husband", "perfect father", and they often have more kids than average. It's all a way of providing cover for the fact that they're gay (both to themselves and to others. And it is, in fact, the perfect cover....for a while). Thankfully, this kind of behavior is less common among younger gay men these days, but it is by no means nonexistent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joke Insurance
And no, I am not homophobic either. If someone falls in love or has sex with another person of the same sex, that is their business alone. More power to them.
You're not aware of the emotional dynamics that go on under the surface. I don't fault you for that too much. Being gay myself, I could never imagine why a gay man would get married and have kids and make a mess of his life and that of his wife/kids I still can't completely wrap my head around it .These marriages inevitably end in divorce, but denial can run very, very, deep. If I hadn't seen it for myself, I wouldn't have believed how deep this sense of denial can be....but I've met enough gay men who did the marriage/kids/divorce thing that I'm now completely convinced that you can be gay and do this.
Last edited by Green Irish Eyes; 08-01-2011 at 06:56 PM..
Reason: Deleted personal comment
Until science can prove that people can be born a homosexual, then I think it's purely by choice. I still don't agree that someone can go homosexual after being married and having 3 kids. They're bisexual, if anything.
And no, I am not homophobic either. If someone falls in love or has sex with another person of the same sex, that is their business alone. More power to them.
lol...Ive said the same thing before. If a person has been married and had kids the natural way, they arent fooling anyone but themselves. They may be bisexual, at minimum, but they sure arent homosexual. This applies to both women and men.
What's alarming is the percentage of the population that accept the exhausted-beyond-measure bogus comparison to the civil rights struggle based on race and go quietly away in submission.
What do you suggest, lobotomies, "reeducation" camp, death squads? Sorry, sweetheart, we ain't going away. It is a civil rights issue and the hate mongers will lose like they always do - black rights, Latino rights, Native American rights, women's rights, Asian's rights, workers rights. You bet it's the same.
lol...Ive said the same thing before. If a person has been married and had kids the natural way, they arent fooling anyone but themselves. They may be bisexual, at minimum, but they sure arent homosexual. This applies to both women and men.
It really doesn't work that way. The only thing I could liken it to is male prison inmates having sex with each other. A lot of them really arn't gay, but when no other choices exist, some straight men will mess around with men.
At the very least, I think your definition of bisexual is way too broad, since using your definition, we're all bisexual if we can manage to get it on with either sex.
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.These marriages inevitably end in divorce, but denial can run very, very, deep. If I hadn't seen it for myself, I wouldn't have believed how deep this sense of denial can be....but I've met enough gay men who did the marriage/kids/divorce thing that I'm now completely convinced that you can be gay and do this.
