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I certainly am not trying to say that you don't have the right to say what you want; I just think it's inconceivably ignorant. To say that Europe and Europeans are morally lacking and we are morally superior is quite idiotic and pompous IMO.
New's flash sweetie: the government does enforce free speech. Rather they deregulate and lower the restrictions on ONE type of speech: political speech. Just a little thought though. Take it as you please.
So when you disagree with me its just your opinion but when I disagree with you I'm inconceivably ignorant? OK got it. Hypocrisy alive and well. I didn't say europeans are morally lacking because I don't know them personally. I can only go by what is accepted in THEIR society and openly pimping kids directly or just ignoring it to get the pedo tourism dollars is pretty much at the scummy bottom. My opinion.
Regardless of why the prostitute does it for fun or not, prostitution does not mean she is a victim. She may not have education or whatever, if that is her way of making it in this life and she rather do that than flipping burgers, some do admit to that, or wants to have fast money for college, some do that too, it is their choice.
There was a prostitute in the Los Angeles area several years back...her name was Amy Taylor (I think)...she was VERY expensive. She started prostitution when she was an undergraduate student in an attempt to pay her bills. She finally graduated with a PhD, I think it was in English--but i'm not sure. Anyway, she stated that she wanted to continue her "personal service business" and did so.
I don't know whatever became of her--and I don't really care. The issue here was "are prostitutes victims"...Sometimes they are. For example when a pimp or a john beats one up..or some punk rapes one...or when she gets robbed...but she is not a victim BECAUSE she is a prostitute. She is a victim BECAUSE someone did something to her.
As to the families of the john's being victims: You could say the same about compulsive gamblers, compulsive drinkers, compulsive golfers, compulsive workers. Does that mean we should outlaw gambling? Drinking? Golfing? ---working-(now THAT's a silly idea).
There was a prostitute in the Los Angeles area several years back...her name was Amy Taylor (I think)...she was VERY expensive. She started prostitution when she was an undergraduate student in an attempt to pay her bills. She finally graduated with a PhD, I think it was in English--but i'm not sure. Anyway, she stated that she wanted to continue her "personal service business" and did so.
I don't know whatever became of her--and I don't really care. The issue here was "are prostitutes victims"...Sometimes they are. For example when a pimp or a john beats one up..or some punk rapes one...or when she gets robbed...but she is not a victim BECAUSE she is a prostitute. She is a victim BECAUSE someone did something to her.
As to the families of the john's being victims: You could say the same about compulsive gamblers, compulsive drinkers, compulsive golfers, compulsive workers. Does that mean we should outlaw gambling? Drinking? Golfing? ---working-(now THAT's a silly idea).
Prostitutes are more LIKELY to be victims than average people.
And as to the families of the Johns...I agree. At the same time, gambling is already outlawed.
Prostitutes are more LIKELY to be victims than average people.
And as to the families of the Johns...I agree. At the same time, gambling is already outlawed.
True..they are more likely to be victims. One of the benefits to society of legalizing prostitution (and regulating it) would be the reduction in crimes against prostitutes.
Gambling is not outlawed here: Vegas, Atlantic City, Indian Casinos, Catholic Churches (bingo). Other places too, I think, but I'm too lazy to come up with a definitive list.
True..they are more likely to be victims. One of the benefits to society of legalizing prostitution (and regulating it) would be the reduction in crimes against prostitutes.
Gambling is not outlawed here: Vegas, Atlantic City, Indian Casinos, Catholic Churches (bingo). Other places too, I think, but I'm too lazy to come up with a definitive list.
What do you think of the proposal I outlined earlier?
So when you disagree with me its just your opinion but when I disagree with you I'm inconceivably ignorant? OK got it. Hypocrisy alive and well.
Sure, if you want to believe that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple_Princess
I didn't say europeans are morally lacking because I don't know them personally.
Don't forget that I also said Europe as a whole. The innuendo of your statement was that we as Americans are morally superior to Europe and Europeans ("So we should be like europe morally ? Riiiiight.")
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple_Princess
I can only go by what is accepted in THEIR society and openly pimping kids directly or just ignoring it to get the pedo tourism dollars is pretty much at the scummy bottom. My opinion.
As opposed to us who pimp violence?
No one is advocating pimping kids and the like. We are talking about consensual paid for sex between two adults. It has been shown that Europe has had far less problems with prostitution because it is legal. It has been shown that having prostitution legal completely wipes out street John's, drug pushers (through prostitution), and sex trafficing. If you ever need an example of what having prostitution illegal does, all you'd have to do is look to the US for guidance.
To me, it seems you are stuck on the notion that if prostitution became legal then suddenly business would be trying to enlist children into their services (which is not true in the least).
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok
Prostitutes are more LIKELY to be victims than average people.
You should add to that 'only when it is illegal.'
When it is legal, then prostitutes have just as much (if not more) protection as other businesses.
So a free for all ? Kiddie brothels drug dens etc ..? If its whatever every INDIVIDUAL wants to do where is the society ? EVERY country imposes something on their citizens. Its called a government. Society wouldn't function long without them.
This a classic fallacy reply: to go the extreme.
Did I ever free for all? No. However, seems you need to be told specifically because you seem to be the type that reads too much into things and makes assumptions to much also.
We are talking about consenting adults, OK?
I agree that every country imposes something on their citizens. That goes along with the "social contract" mentioned by earlier phylosophers.
A point to note though. Every country has a national ideology and that is usually stated by the principles stated in their constitutions generally speaking.
Our Constitution was written delineating certain principles and rights that shape our national ideology.
One right we now have is the right to privacy.
With this in mind I pose some questions:
How does it affect you if some guy approaches a woman for sex and they agree to a payment, go to a hotel, have sex, he pays and part way?
Does it interrup your sleep?
Does it affect your job?
Does it force you to do something you do not want to do?
Did you wake up the next morning after they had sex with falling hair, high fever?
The next question is this:
Why would you not allow prostitution to be legal?
God?
The Bible?
Personal aversion?
Is it immoral? If so, are you saying you want to impose your morals on somebody else?
William James wrote: The first thing to learn in intercourse with others is non-interference with their own particular ways of being happy, provided those ways do not assume to interfere with violence with ours.
Senior Bush said: If we've learned anything in the past quarter century, is that we cannot federalize virtue.
Mohandas K. Ganhi said: Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth.
When I compare Gandhi with the Iranian ayatollas I see a great difference. Gandhi was a very virtous individual hence in the pantheon of great historical figures and the ayatolas as the great tyrants that impose moral valuse on people. Whose example you rather follow?
Thomas Jefferson wrote: The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts as are only injurious to others.
So again, how does a john and a prositute injuriously affect you when they have their business behind closed doors?
1. Require brothels, prostitution "shops", etc. to pay something like a $10,000 fee a year for a license and each prostitute to pay something like a $1,000 fee for an individual license
2. Make ILLEGAL prostitution a felony with mandatory jail time
3. Set a minimum age at 21 (this is the case in all but 2 Nevada counties where prostitution is allowed) AND require a MINIMUM of a high school diploma
4. Require all prostitutes to be on the pill AND use a condom every time. Intentional misuse results in severe penalties.
5. Require STD tests at least TWICE weekly.
6. No solicitation or advertising on the streets.
7. Any crime of violence committed against a prostitute (or by a prostitute against a customer) results in an increased penalty.
8. A minimum of say...30% of fees charged is taken away in taxes.
9. A hotline to report violence against prostitutes or violence by prostitutes against customers with rewards for reporting offenses leading to convictions.
10. A significant amount of education before granting any licenses.
11. Allow voters in each city/county to vote to ban prostitution altogether.
What does everyone think?
The only thing I can't figure out is what to do if a prostitute becomes pregnant.
I should also add....I think those of you who think we should eliminate all "victimless" crimes should focus on gambling first. That would be an easier one to legalize.
If a prostitute becomes pregnant, it should be covered as any workers' compensation injury is covered. With the costs of the workers' comp insurance paid by the brothel owner/licensee. This means the costs would be contained within the "prostitution" industry.
Did I ever free for all? No. However, seems you need to be told specifically because you seem to be the type that reads too much into things and makes assumptions to much also.
We are talking about consenting adults, OK?
I agree that every country imposes something on their citizens. That goes along with the "social contract" mentioned by earlier phylosophers.
A point to note though. Every country has a national ideology and that is usually stated by the principles stated in their constitutions generally speaking.
Our Constitution was written delineating certain principles and rights that shape our national ideology.
One right we now have is the right to privacy.
With this in mind I pose some questions:
How does it affect you if some guy approaches a woman for sex and they agree to a payment, go to a hotel, have sex, he pays and part way?
Does it interrup your sleep?
Does it affect your job?
Does it force you to do something you do not want to do?
Did you wake up the next morning after they had sex with falling hair, high fever?
The next question is this:
Why would you not allow prostitution to be legal?
God?
The Bible?
Personal aversion?
Is it immoral? If so, are you saying you want to impose your morals on somebody else?
William James wrote: The first thing to learn in intercourse with others is non-interference with their own particular ways of being happy, provided those ways do not assume to interfere with violence with ours.
Senior Bush said: If we've learned anything in the past quarter century, is that we cannot federalize virtue.
Mohandas K. Ganhi said: Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth.
When I compare Gandhi with the Iranian ayatollas I see a great difference. Gandhi was a very virtous individual hence in the pantheon of great historical figures and the ayatolas as the great tyrants that impose moral valuse on people. Whose example you rather follow?
Thomas Jefferson wrote: The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts as are only injurious to others.
So again, how does a john and a prositute injuriously affect you when they have their business behind closed doors?
You have a great day.
El Amigo
I already had a great day but thanks. You said letting individuals do as they please. If that means prostitution it follows that other individuals should be allowed to do what they please as well. That would be fair right? Otherwise, you would then become guilty of what you are complaining about.
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