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as far as factory jhp loads go, in a concealable, controlable gun, the 135 gr Corbon .40 is a good choice. we need a 100 gr .40 jhp, at about 1500 fps, from 4" barrels, for best contolablility, real expansion, real shock effect, that would be superior. All this "15" minimum penetration" is the bunk, for civilians. I want Maximum 10" of penetration (in flesh and blood targets). all the (rare) arm first hits and barrier first stuff is not the criteria for civiilians. for us, what is needed is the max effect on a frontal, fully exposed torso. The cop type shooting, thru barriers, etc, is likely to get a civilan sent to prison. So picking your load based on that stuff is a bad mistake
after you've had some experience shooting critters with handguns, you'll see that there is a very noticable difference in effect between stuff like the 380 (and more feeble calibers) and stuff that really hits hard, like a 10mm 135 gr, 1600 fps Double Tap jhp. The issues meet in the middle for most people What size and weight of gun are you willing/able to always have with you, and what power level will you maintain enough skill to adequately control (ie, 4 or more hits per second, at 5 yds and less)? If you can't get the hits, fast enough, or if you won't carry it, then it's just a "bluff", regardless of power.
People have to just get over the idea that lead cored copper jackets it eh only way to make bullets. It's quite easy to have a 60 gr 9mm bullet or 80 gr .45 that feeds and ejects just fine, has plenty of power and accurcy, and plenty of penetration. fi you want more or less penetration, you just make a smaller or larger hp cavity, and make a shallower or deeper slit in the split nose. You most assuredly can have 223 rifle type destruction and shock form a fulled suppored 460 Rowland or 10 mm. Wiuth a pocket 9, it's quite feasible to get he same sort of fine preformance seen with 4" barreled 357's, using 125 gr jhp's.=, if you load them correcly, using a 45 gr bullet at 2200 fps. Google Mag Safe ammo. they've offered a 2500 fps 357 Sig load, 4" barrel, for many years now. Ditto a 2200 fps 9mm load.
Those loads are spectacular. Either spectacular failures, or spectacular successes. More often than not, failures. Hence why no agency issues them, even the FAMS, who would appreciate less penetration if possible.
The agencies don't want them being made, in 2200 fps speeds, cause they pierce Kevlar vests. it's not that such loads are failures in any tactical performance way. it's that they are TOO effective. One cop in 5 that gets shot, gets shot with his own gun or his partner's gun.
The agencies don't want them being made, in 2200 fps speeds, cause they pierce Kevlar vests. it's not that such loads are failures in any tactical performance way. it's that they are TOO effective. One cop in 5 that gets shot, gets shot with his own gun or his partner's gun.
I disagree with that logic, as nerf guns are not issued, and M4 carbines are. Because according to your data...4 out of 5 officers...are NOT shot with their own weapons. So for the sake of the 1 in 5, we will give the 4 out of 5 a lesser chance of survival? Not likely.
The M4's are not normally brought into play, the 20% figures don't include longarms. Talk to Massaad Ayoob about it. The numbers are his. Cops don't want the info about hi-v ammo out and about, guys. But it's true. A bullet made of copper, zinc, or aluminum, at speeds over 2000 fps, does pierce Kevlar vests, and is legal under Federal law. Some states, tho, like CA and ILL, require a "lead core" in handgun bullets. No spec of size or wt of lead core is given, so it c;ould legally have a tiny, #9 birdshot lead core and be legal, yet still do said job. Perhaps you don't remember the flap about Black Talons or white Rhino ammo? Cops are just as prone to being fear driven as the rest of the sheeple.
we CAN destroy enough tissue to cause lots more willingness to quit, a lot faster than 15 seconds. A 460 split nose, 800+ ft lbs, or a 223 softpoint only rarely, maybe 2x in 100 shootings to the chest, fail to get a near instant cessation of attack. It's probably not a physical incapacation. But it's still a stop, even it if IS "only a pshycological "quitting". :-) we CAN (easily) exceed 1800 fps with controlable handgun ammo. it's just a question of making the bullet much lighter. Spin the buillets out of solid aluminum, zinc, or copper rod, it's perfectly feasible to get them to weigh 60 grs in 9mm and 80 grs in .45 and easily lift them to 1800 fps. actually, you can get them going 2200 fps. it's just a question of size and design of the hp and the slit in the bullets that determines how deeply it penetrates and how much damage it does.
Thanks for the info on high velocity ammo for handguns, I had never heard of that
I just carry my 40sw with 65g FTXs. It's a compromise between mass and velocity that this round produce over 500 pounds of energy.
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