U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Hobbies and Recreation > Guns and Hunting
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-31-2008, 07:16 PM
 
Location: Eastern Washington
13,420 posts, read 42,768,615 times
Reputation: 11509

Advertisements

I'm 99% certain, Mike, you have found the problem with the greater diameter near the case mouth. If you segregate some of these rounds and say load a "fattie" round in the mag first, then a "normal" one, and see if this does not cause the problem every time. If so, you have proven to yourself and anyone else that cares what is causing the failure to go fully into battery - now you just have to figure out what's making the "fatties" too big, and keep it from happening or correct it after the fact.

It's just possible you are over-flaring the mouth of the case, maybe some of the cases are a little over-length, and the way the RCBS flaring die works, a slightly longer case will get a bigger flare (Lyman's M die won't do this, or at least not as bad - take a look at the expander ball on a Lyman and you'll see what I mean)

If I am right, a taper crimp die will in any case (no pun intended) fix the problem.

Although, for serious production of .45 ACP ammo, the Dillon Square Deal, or even a Lee turret press, would be IMHO a more practical tool than the good old Rock Chucker - the RC certainly can get it done, but with a single station press you will be juggling around 4 different dies.

Everybody knows that the .45 ACP headspaces on the case mouth, so you don't want to trim them too short, I have known guys who taper crimped so fiercely that the case mouth was even with the bullet, they were effectively headspacing on the bullet or the extractor. It worked fine, but it's not good form.

NVplumber, I had to polish the ramp on my Gold Cup to get it to feed 185 grain wadcutter type bullets. They never have been quite as reliable as the old H&G 68 style 200 grain (probably most people's favorite cast bullet for the ACP)

Maybe someone should change the title on this thread to "Big Bore Handgun Bull Session".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-01-2009, 02:53 PM
 
Location: Way on the outskirts of LA LA land.
3,040 posts, read 10,223,468 times
Reputation: 1915
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Mitch View Post
Maybe someone should change the title on this thread to "Big Bore Handgun Bull Session".
While I don't really have anything valuable to add to this discussion, I am finding it interesting, since I have some plans to reload for my .45s in the future. I still have a fair amount of loaded ammo, and not too much empty brass, so I'll need to do a bit more shooting with them first .

Keep up the discussion, guys. I'm learning a lot from it, even though I don't have much to add. Thanks!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-01-2009, 05:44 PM
 
Location: Arizona, The American Southwest
51,076 posts, read 29,155,066 times
Reputation: 90172
I live in Phoenix, and I'm not too far from Dillon Precision's headquarters. I'll have to stop there sometime and pick up the .45 ACP dies, and maybe a new Dillon Precision press. I've had the Rochchucker for almost 15 years now and it's still doing a wonderful job, but it's time for a new multi-station press.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-03-2009, 08:52 AM
 
Location: NW Nevada
13,340 posts, read 10,916,474 times
Reputation: 12291
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Mitch View Post
I'm 99% certain, Mike, you have found the problem with the greater diameter near the case mouth. If you segregate some of these rounds and say load a "fattie" round in the mag first, then a "normal" one, and see if this does not cause the problem every time. If so, you have proven to yourself and anyone else that cares what is causing the failure to go fully into battery - now you just have to figure out what's making the "fatties" too big, and keep it from happening or correct it after the fact.

It's just possible you are over-flaring the mouth of the case, maybe some of the cases are a little over-length, and the way the RCBS flaring die works, a slightly longer case will get a bigger flare (Lyman's M die won't do this, or at least not as bad - take a look at the expander ball on a Lyman and you'll see what I mean)

If I am right, a taper crimp die will in any case (no pun intended) fix the problem.

Although, for serious production of .45 ACP ammo, the Dillon Square Deal, or even a Lee turret press, would be IMHO a more practical tool than the good old Rock Chucker - the RC certainly can get it done, but with a single station press you will be juggling around 4 different dies.

Everybody knows that the .45 ACP headspaces on the case mouth, so you don't want to trim them too short, I have known guys who taper crimped so fiercely that the case mouth was even with the bullet, they were effectively headspacing on the bullet or the extractor. It worked fine, but it's not good form.

NVplumber, I had to polish the ramp on my Gold Cup to get it to feed 185 grain wadcutter type bullets. They never have been quite as reliable as the old H&G 68 style 200 grain (probably most people's favorite cast bullet for the ACP)

Maybe someone should change the title on this thread to "Big Bore Handgun Bull Session".
Oh , I had to do a little work on my Norinco for SWC's as I was building it to ensure proper feeding to. Very few stock 1911,s will feed them just like that. The problem I had with those 185's I mentioned was just WIERD. The gun would just flat not go into battery at all. Never did get that one figured out.. Lol yea I like the new thread title idea. Maybe I'll ask the mods about doing it. Super tight crimps on a .45 aye. . Seems to me that could create some over pressure issues...NOT a good Idea espeacially if one is playing around on the max end of the load range.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-09-2009, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Arizona, The American Southwest
51,076 posts, read 29,155,066 times
Reputation: 90172
NV Plummer, and M3 Mitch - You guys are gonna laugh at this! I found the reason why my .45 ACP was experiencing the case bulging and cartridge feeding problems I described, and I can't believe I didn't notice this! The reloading dies I was using were for the .45 Colt, not the .45 ACP... so for almost 9 years, I've been reloading the .45 auto ammo using those dies, and some worked, because I had the dies adjusted correctly, but the seating dies were not right for the auto, so I went and got new .45 ACP carbide dies yesterday, and I'm going to load up 50 cartridges, then go to the range on Sunday.

I also went to Dillon Precision's headquarters/store in north Scottsdale, Arizona and the dies they had are only suitable for their presses, and they did not include the expander die because that's on the powder dispenser part of the presses, so I ended up getting the RCBS dies.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-09-2009, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Eastern Washington
13,420 posts, read 42,768,615 times
Reputation: 11509
Yeah, Mike, that would explain the problem! There are a lot of dies that you can mix and match and load cartridges other than the ones the dies were built to do, like loading 32 ACP (now you guys quit laughing at me for loading and shooting this pipsqueak...) in 32 S&W dies, or backing these same 32 S&W dies out (IIRC the same washer that converts 38 Special to 357 Magnum) to load the 32 H&R Magnum. But this kind of stuff is better for bolt action rifles and revolvers than it is for autoloaders.

Nothing in the world wrong with RCBS dies. Actually I have never seen or heard of any trouble with any recognized brand of loading tools that could not be traced to a worn out tool or (more commonly) the loose nut on the end of the press handle...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-10-2009, 04:35 AM
 
Location: In a house
5,230 posts, read 7,324,732 times
Reputation: 2558
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnum Mike View Post
NV Plummer, and M3 Mitch - You guys are gonna laugh at this! I found the reason why my .45 ACP was experiencing the case bulging and cartridge feeding problems I described, and I can't believe I didn't notice this! The reloading dies I was using were for the .45 Colt, not the .45 ACP... so for almost 9 years, I've been reloading the .45 auto ammo using those dies, and some worked, because I had the dies adjusted correctly, but the seating dies were not right for the auto, so I went and got new .45 ACP carbide dies yesterday, and I'm going to load up 50 cartridges, then go to the range on Sunday.

I also went to Dillon Precision's headquarters/store in north Scottsdale, Arizona and the dies they had are only suitable for their presses, and they did not include the expander die because that's on the powder dispenser part of the presses, so I ended up getting the RCBS dies.

Now thats funny.
I had a similar experience loading for an old 38/55 Marlin I have.
I bought a die set from Lee but got HUGE bulges when loading the .381" bullets my gun needed. I tried backing out the sizer among other things but it turned out that the expander was for a .375 Winchester. I spent months trying to figure it out & ended up buying a RCBS set & then a Lyman "M" expander die for it before I figured it out. Said .375 right on it But I never looked.

Hope this works for you, really stinks when you cant chamber ammo you just built.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-10-2009, 01:16 PM
 
Location: NW Nevada
13,340 posts, read 10,916,474 times
Reputation: 12291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnum Mike View Post
NV Plummer, and M3 Mitch - You guys are gonna laugh at this! I found the reason why my .45 ACP was experiencing the case bulging and cartridge feeding problems I described, and I can't believe I didn't notice this! The reloading dies I was using were for the .45 Colt, not the .45 ACP... so for almost 9 years, I've been reloading the .45 auto ammo using those dies, and some worked, because I had the dies adjusted correctly, but the seating dies were not right for the auto, so I went and got new .45 ACP carbide dies yesterday, and I'm going to load up 50 cartridges, then go to the range on Sunday.

I also went to Dillon Precision's headquarters/store in north Scottsdale, Arizona and the dies they had are only suitable for their presses, and they did not include the expander die because that's on the powder dispenser part of the presses, so I ended up getting the RCBS dies.
Oh my...lol yea theres a sliht case length difference there. That explains a lot.......
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-10-2009, 05:54 PM
 
Location: California
11,425 posts, read 16,671,033 times
Reputation: 12447
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnum Mike View Post
NV Plummer, and M3 Mitch - You guys are gonna laugh at this! I found the reason why my .45 ACP was experiencing the case bulging and cartridge feeding problems I described, and I can't believe I didn't notice this! The reloading dies I was using were for the .45 Colt, not the .45 ACP... so for almost 9 years, I've been reloading the .45 auto ammo using those dies, and some worked, because I had the dies adjusted correctly, but the seating dies were not right for the auto, so I went and got new .45 ACP carbide dies yesterday, and I'm going to load up 50 cartridges, then go to the range on Sunday.

I also went to Dillon Precision's headquarters/store in north Scottsdale, Arizona and the dies they had are only suitable for their presses, and they did not include the expander die because that's on the powder dispenser part of the presses, so I ended up getting the RCBS dies.
I'm not laughing because I was loading my 223's with my 22-250 dies, I only neck size after fireforming to I didn't notice until I was loading some new brass, I got a good laugh out of it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-10-2009, 06:47 PM
 
616 posts, read 1,013,131 times
Reputation: 381
Thumbs up That's some "dog gone" good shooting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NVplumber View Post
I've been handloading for the old Colt for a long time now and started doing so as an experiment in ballistics fueled by a belief that the ol' war horse still had it in her. Firstly I made sure I was using HIGH quality brass and worked slowly up the tables using strong guns such as the Ruger Blackhawk, Colt Anaconda and Marlin1895. The .45 Colt is certainly a strong performer despite it's supposed "demise" in certain quarters of the gun press. The .44 mag is a strong performer certainly, but I , personally find the Colt to be a lot more fun. You can sling a 300 grain JHP out at 1100 FPS and a 250 out at close to 1300. Thats a flying sledghammer! Using the Sierra 200 gr flat pt jacketed bullet ( This is a .45 ACP bullet that works well if your chambers are sized at .451/.452 rather than the original.454 ..mike your chambers) I've tipped over..or rather BOWLED over coyotes at 200 yards. with my Marlin lever gun using this bullet and 9 grains of Unique. I've used the colt for feral pig with equally pleasing results. I'm thinking the death of the .45 Colt has been greatly exagerated. If your a handloader I think you can give the fine .44 mag a run for it's money with the old .45. But ya don't want to
use these loads in great grand dads Peacemaker!! Only in heavily built MODERN guns.
Both have their place. It's really about personal choice. One day you might prefer the thumb buster .44 Mag. on a grizzly hunt (some actually do) or the .45 Colt on another day for punching paper or whatever.

And BTW, killing a dog at 200 yards with a Marlin lever action is pretty darn good shooting!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Hobbies and Recreation > Guns and Hunting
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top