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Old 10-09-2018, 04:59 PM
Status: "Autumn!" (set 25 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,880 posts, read 98,615,818 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Of course not but smoking, alcohol use, unprotected sex, hormonal contraception and a compromised immune system all up oneís risk of HPV associated cancers and in some cases quite dramatically.
It is HPV that causes the cancer.

 
Old 10-09-2018, 05:05 PM
 
8,288 posts, read 8,552,422 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Williepaws View Post
One more vaccine being pushed by the pro vaccine crowd.
Has it occurred to you that not only do some of them actually work, but they have a dramatic effect?

How many cases of polio or red measles have you seen lately? What if I told you the efficacy of the HPV vaccine is as great.

The fact that contagious disease can spread through a population makes vaccination more than simply an issue of "personal choice".
 
Old 10-09-2018, 05:12 PM
 
8,540 posts, read 5,241,515 times
Reputation: 9094
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
It is HPV that causes the cancer.
HPV can most certainly lead to cancer. Iím not denying that fact at all. Most HPV will clear the body without symptoms or intervention. I think itís foolish to deny that smoking, alcohol use, hormonal birth control, unprotected sex and a lack of regular Pap smears for women can contribute to HPV progressing into cancer.

For instance, women who smoke are 3.4 times more likely then non smokers to get cervical cancer. HPV is the primary factor and smoking is a significant cofactor. The thing is, though that most people get HPV (primary factor) without any issues at all and clear it front heir bodies. Women who smoke are les likely to clear it and are 3.4 times more likely to have it progress into cervical cancer.
https://www.everydayhealth.com/cervi...king-risk.aspx
 
Old 10-09-2018, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Central IL
13,268 posts, read 7,059,798 times
Reputation: 30840
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
HPV can most certainly lead to cancer. Iím not denying that fact at all. Most HPV will clear the body without symptoms or intervention. I think itís foolish to deny that smoking, alcohol use, hormonal birth control, unprotected sex and a lack of regular Pap smears for women can contribute to HPV progressing into cancer.

For instance, women who smoke are 3.4 times more likely then non smokers to get cervical cancer. HPV is the primary factor and smoking is a significant cofactor. The thing is, though that most people get HPV (primary factor) without any issues at all and clear it front heir bodies. Women who smoke are les likely to clear it and are 3.4 times more likely to have it progress into cervical cancer.
https://www.everydayhealth.com/cervi...king-risk.aspx
Interesting....it makes me think of the parallels with chickenpox - almost everyone in the U.S. has been exposed to chickenpox even if they didn't actually get it as a kid. It's pretty mild as illnesses go...however, you're then at later risk for shingles which can be quite painful. And there are risk factors such as having had certain cancers or otherwise a weak immune systems or experiencing high levels of stress that seem to bring on shingles.

So what's your point regarding HPV and later cancer? Lots of "mild" and common diseases can cause much more severe issues in a small percentage of people...and sometimes those people have higher risk due to other factors. I guess with shingles we're just lucky it's less due to those "bad" behaviors of sex, smoking, drinking, and rock and roll that apparently makes for rather unsympathetic victims of HPV-related cancer?! Or is it that because there is a "behavioral" element people should just "be good" and they won't have a problem?

I'm confused what you're actually saying.
 
Old 10-09-2018, 06:10 PM
 
8,540 posts, read 5,241,515 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63 View Post
Interesting....it makes me think of the parallels with chickenpox - almost everyone in the U.S. has been exposed to chickenpox even if they didn't actually get it as a kid. It's pretty mild as illnesses go...however, you're then at later risk for shingles which can be quite painful. And there are risk factors such as having had certain cancers or otherwise a weak immune systems or experiencing high levels of stress that seem to bring on shingles.

So what's your point regarding HPV and later cancer? Lots of "mild" and common diseases can cause much more severe issues in a small percentage of people...and sometimes those people have higher risk due to other factors. I guess with shingles we're just lucky it's less due to those "bad" behaviors of sex, smoking, drinking, and rock and roll that apparently makes for rather unsympathetic victims of HPV-related cancer?! Or is it that because there is a "behavioral" element people should just "be good" and they won't have a problem?

I'm confused what you're actually saying.

Once you get chickenpox or the chickenpox vaccine, the virus will stay with you and can re-activate later in the form of shingles. Most people either get chicken pox or the chicken pox vaccine which means most people are at risk of getting shingles at some point later in life.

Human Papilloma Virus is something that 80% or so of the population will get at one point or another. The vast majority will clear the virus from their body through their own immune system and will not have any signs, symptoms or lasting effects. A portion of people will not clear it and will show signs, symptoms which can lead the certain types of cancers. There are contributing factors such as smoking, etc. that can increase the likelihood of not being able to clear it and then it progressing to cancer.

The two are actually very different. My comment is based on facts, not on morals or prudence. People’s level of risk of getting an HPV associated cancer will vary considerably depending on a number of very real factors including smoking, regular paps, etc.

I’m not totally clear as to what your question is but tried to answer based on what I think you’re asking.

Last edited by MissTerri; 10-09-2018 at 06:21 PM..
 
Old 10-09-2018, 06:51 PM
Status: "Autumn!" (set 25 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,880 posts, read 98,615,818 times
Reputation: 31320
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
HPV can most certainly lead to cancer. I’m not denying that fact at all. Most HPV will clear the body without symptoms or intervention. I think it’s foolish to deny that smoking, alcohol use, hormonal birth control, unprotected sex and a lack of regular Pap smears for women can contribute to HPV progressing into cancer.

For instance, women who smoke are 3.4 times more likely then non smokers to get cervical cancer. HPV is the primary factor and smoking is a significant cofactor. The thing is, though that most people get HPV (primary factor) without any issues at all and clear it front heir bodies. Women who smoke are les likely to clear it and are 3.4 times more likely to have it progress into cervical cancer.
https://www.everydayhealth.com/cervi...king-risk.aspx
The cause of cervical cancer is HPV. People do not "clear" HPV from their bodies intentionally. It either happens or it doesn't. "Low risk" doesn't mean "no risk".

Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63 View Post
Interesting....it makes me think of the parallels with chickenpox - almost everyone in the U.S. has been exposed to chickenpox even if they didn't actually get it as a kid. It's pretty mild as illnesses go...however, you're then at later risk for shingles which can be quite painful. And there are risk factors such as having had certain cancers or otherwise a weak immune systems or experiencing high levels of stress that seem to bring on shingles.

So what's your point regarding HPV and later cancer? Lots of "mild" and common diseases can cause much more severe issues in a small percentage of people...and sometimes those people have higher risk due to other factors. I guess with shingles we're just lucky it's less due to those "bad" behaviors of sex, smoking, drinking, and rock and roll that apparently makes for rather unsympathetic victims of HPV-related cancer?! Or is it that because there is a "behavioral" element people should just "be good" and they won't have a problem?

I'm confused what you're actually saying.
I think, in the case of the PP, she thinks that if she doesn't smoke, drink, use hormonal birth control and gets a pap, she will not contract cervical cancer. In point of fact, that is incorrect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Once you get chickenpox or the chickenpox vaccine, the virus will stay with you and can re-activate later in the form of shingles. Most people either get chicken pox or the chicken pox vaccine which means most people are at risk of getting shingles at some point later in life.

Human Papilloma Virus is something that 80% or so of the population will get at one point or another. The vast majority will clear the virus from their body through their own immune system and will not have any signs, symptoms or lasting effects. A portion of people will not clear it and will show signs, symptoms which can lead the certain types of cancers. There are contributing factors such as smoking, etc. that can increase the likelihood of not being able to clear it and then it progressing to cancer.

The two are actually very different. My comment is based on facts, not on morals or prudence. People’s level of risk of getting an HPV associated cancer will vary considerably depending on a number of very real factors including smoking, regular paps, etc.

I’m not totally clear as to what your question is but tried to answer based on what I think you’re asking.
You have a much lower risk of getting shingles after the vaccine than after chickenpox disease.

You are fooling yourself with that talk about smoking, etc, not that I think anyone should smoke. Far from it. You are also exaggerating the effect of smoking on the development of cervical cancer. The actual figure is about 2X more likely, not 3-4X.
https://www.cancer.net/cancer-types/...r/risk-factors

Last edited by Katarina Witt; 10-09-2018 at 07:03 PM..
 
Old 10-09-2018, 07:03 PM
 
8,540 posts, read 5,241,515 times
Reputation: 9094
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
The cause of cervical cancer is HPV. People do not "clear" HPV from their bodies intentionally. It either happens or it doesn't. "Low risk" doesn't mean "no risk".
HPV can lead to cancer but the vast majority of the time, people’s own immune systems clear it from their bodies without any signs, symptoms or cancer.

Factors such as smoking, having a compromised immune system (people with HIV for instance), people who don’t get regular paps, people wo have unprotected sex, people who use certain hormonal birth control methods are at an increased risk.

All I’m saying is that not everyone has the same risk and I would hope that people would educate themselves and understand their personal risk and not freak out over HPV because most people have already had it or will get it and most people will not get cancer because of it.


Quote:
I think, in the case of the PP, she thinks that if she doesn't smoke, drink, use hormonal birth control and gets a pap, she will not contract cervical cancer. In point of fact, that is incorrect.
False. But I do understand that I’m extremely low risk. You probably are too.

Quote:
You have a much lower risk of getting shingles after the vaccine than after chickenpox disease.

You are fooling yourself with that talk about smoking, etc, not that I think anyone should smoke. Far from it.
The risk increases greatly with smoking. There’s ample evidence of this. I didn’t make this up. You’re fooling yourself by ignoring this risk factor and evidence.
 
Old 10-09-2018, 07:19 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,387 posts, read 25,975,211 times
Reputation: 26299
Quote:
Originally Posted by nobodysbusiness View Post
As has been stated, MOST people (a GREAT preponderance >80%) who are exposed to HPV, "get" HPV, the disease or condition resolves on its own. The small percent who go on to get cancers must be due to immune system or other variables.

The vaccine is not without risks.
The vaccine protects against the nine strains of HPV that cause about 90% of the HPV associated cancers. There is no way to determine whether an individual person will clear the virus or not. That is why the vaccine is recommended for everyone.

There have been no serious side effects reported from the vaccine. The most common problems are sore arms and a tendency to faint after the injection (which can happen with any injection). The vaccine is safe and highly effective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
The vast majority of people will not only get HPV but also clear HPV via their immune system without any symptoms. Odds are the poster you are talking to has had it and so have you and so have I.
How do you tell whether an individual person is able to clear the virus or not? What test do you use to say, "This girl will clear the virus, she does not need to be vaccinated against it." ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Very true. HPV contributes to head, neck, throat, anal and cervical cancer. Other factors that play a significant role are smoking, alcohol use, hormonal birth control, unprotected sex of any kind, having a compromised immune system, lack of regular Pap smears, etc.
If you never get the high risk virus you do not get HPV associated cancer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Of course lack of Pap smears does not cause HPV. Failure to get regular Pap smears which can detect early changes to cervical cells prior to becoming cancerous can lead to cervical cancer though.
By the time the Pap smear is abnormal the cancer is already developing. Pap smears do not prevent cancers, they hopefully just catch it at an early stage when it is treatable. Diagnosis and treatment involve procedures which can be painful and have side effects that can cause fertility problems. Prevent the high risk HPV and you avoid the vast majority of abnormal Pap smears altogether.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Of course not but smoking, alcohol use, unprotected sex, hormonal contraception and a compromised immune system all up oneís risk of HPV associated cancers and in some cases quite dramatically.
If you prevent the HPV then you do not get HPV associated cancer, no matter what other risk factors you have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Williepaws View Post
You do know that according to the CDC, nearly every sexually active adult in the US has been exposed to HPV. That is millions and millions and millions of people. If you only look at women the number of adult women is around 126 million. And most dont even know it or have any consequences. So why are we vaccinating people most of whom have been exposed to the disease with no ill effect? Is this a drug in search of a problem.
Because out of those millions of people there is no way to predict which ones will get cancer from HPV and those who will not.

Men get HPV associated cancers, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
HPV can most certainly lead to cancer. Iím not denying that fact at all. Most HPV will clear the body without symptoms or intervention. I think itís foolish to deny that smoking, alcohol use, hormonal birth control, unprotected sex and a lack of regular Pap smears for women can contribute to HPV progressing into cancer.

For instance, women who smoke are 3.4 times more likely then non smokers to get cervical cancer. HPV is the primary factor and smoking is a significant cofactor. The thing is, though that most people get HPV (primary factor) without any issues at all and clear it front heir bodies. Women who smoke are les likely to clear it and are 3.4 times more likely to have it progress into cervical cancer.
https://www.everydayhealth.com/cervi...king-risk.aspx
Vaccination prevents them from getting HPV at all. Smokers will still get smoking related cancers but not those caused by HPV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Once you get chickenpox or the chickenpox vaccine, the virus will stay with you and can re-activate later in the form of shingles. Most people either get chicken pox or the chicken pox vaccine which means most people are at risk of getting shingles at some point later in life.

Human Papilloma Virus is something that 80% or so of the population will get at one point or another. The vast majority will clear the virus from their body through their own immune system and will not have any signs, symptoms or lasting effects. A portion of people will not clear it and will show signs, symptoms which can lead the certain types of cancers. There are contributing factors such as smoking, etc. that can increase the likelihood of not being able to clear it and then it progressing to cancer.

The two are actually very different. My comment is based on facts, not on morals or prudence. Peopleís level of risk of getting an HPV associated cancer will vary considerably depending on a number of very real factors including smoking, regular paps, etc.

Iím not totally clear as to what your question is but tried to answer based on what I think youíre asking.
Presume that a doctor sees 100 patients, all infected with high risk HPV. Also presume that 90 will clear the virus and 10 will not. Now you must advise each of those 100 people. How do you tell whether an individual person is one of the 10 who will not clear the virus and be at risk to develop a cancer?

Why not use the vaccine to prevent infection with the nine strains associated with 90% of the cancers (male and female) caused by HPV?

How are Pap smears going to prevent throat cancer in males? What do you say to a nonsmoker and nondrinker who gets an HPV associated cancer?

What kind of "protection" during sex do you recommend to prevent HPV, keeping in mind that the virus can be transmitted by any skin to skin contact, not just intercourse? Condoms may help, but they are not 100%.

Your approach is a bit like waiting until a child gets burned while playing with matches and treating the burn rather than keeping the matches away from him in the first place.
 
Old 10-09-2018, 07:28 PM
 
8,540 posts, read 5,241,515 times
Reputation: 9094
Sharing for anyone interested. Risk factors from the American Cancer Society.
https://cancer.org/cancer/cervical-c...k-factors.html

According to this, women who smoke are twice as likely to get cervical cancer.

The link discusses all risk factors.
 
Old 10-09-2018, 08:41 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,387 posts, read 25,975,211 times
Reputation: 26299
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Sharing for anyone interested. Risk factors from the American Cancer Society.
https://cancer.org/cancer/cervical-c...k-factors.html

According to this, women who smoke are twice as likely to get cervical cancer.

The link discusses all risk factors.
HPV infection is necessary to get cervical cancer. It is not sufficient, because not everyone with high risk HPV infection gets cancer. However, without it, cervical cancer virtually never happens.

Prevent the HPV and you prevent the majority of cervical cancers.

https://www.croh-online.com/article/...16)30061-0/pdf

"In 1977, ZurHausen, a German virologist, was the first to link human papillomavirus (HPV) infection as the major causative agent of cervical cancer (zur Hausen, 1977). Since then, it has been generally accepted that HPV infection is a necessary, although not sufficient condition, for the development of cervical cancer (Walboomers et al., 1999; Munoz et al., 2006)."

If you get a cervical infection with high risk HPV, you are not guaranteed to get cervical cancer. If you do not get a high risk HPV infection of the cervix you almost certainly will not get cervical cancer.
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