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Non-hispanic Americans are being discriminated against in hiring practices because most of them don't speak Spanish to pander to illegal aliens. If we were enforcing our immigration laws like we should be this wouldn't be happening.
no. Non-spanish speakers are being passed over because employers value spanish language skills. When you pull a bait-and-switch by saying "non-hispanic americans" there you're either A) being disingenuous or B) racially profiling.
Do you think a white guy that speaks spanish would be discriminated against here?
Quote:
Taking bids from companies that only have legal workers on their payrolls and selecting the lowest bid isn't the same thing as hiring illegal workers just because they are cheaper than the rest.
Yes, it's different. But not in the context of this discussion.
Here, let's make it simple:
Is selecting the cheapest bidder objectionable "discrimination" in your opinion? Yes or no, please.
[qutoe]Emotional response? I haven't a clue what you mean by that.[/quote]
Living in the present.
We keep hearing how if employers no matter the occupation were forced to hire legals to do the work then we would be forced to pay more.
Or the other excuse they wouldnt be able to compete.
How is it that companies that don't hire illegals are still competing with those who do? Could it be that the cost savings are not being passed on to the consumer?
If the laws were enforced accross the nation and all companies had to obey them who are we competing against?
Will China export landscapers?
Not every state is like Ca that offers safe haven to illegals and certainly not every town accross the nation offers sanctuary. Yet we have thriving businesses that dont use illegal labor.
I don't know a dairy farmer in my area that uses illegals and yet they do the work.
I fired a mason who showed up on my house because he couldnt show that 2 of his guys were here legally. Wheres the green cards I asked? Every legal know that they are expected to carry that card everywhere they go. His replacement brought in on short notice cost me a little over $100.00 more. On a house that cost 150 g to build 100.00 isn't worth talking about.
The factory I work in. Every employee before hired must provide proof of HS diploma or ged, birth certificate, pass a drug test, and submit proof of legal status. Yet We are the most profitable plant in the division. No ilegals on the floor.
I grow weary of the excuses.
We are too lazy
We are too expensive
Illegals only do jobs we wont do etc.
No we just want a fair wage for the work we are asked to do.
What jobs are next that only illegals seem qualified to do?
Auto mechanics? law enforcement?
no. Non-spanish speakers are being passed over because employers value spanish language skills. When you pull a bait-and-switch by saying "non-hispanic americans" there you're either A) being disingenuous or B) racially profiling.
Do you think a white guy that speaks spanish would be discriminated against here?
Yes, it's different. But not in the context of this discussion.
Here, let's make it simple:
Is selecting the cheapest bidder objectionable "discrimination" in your opinion? Yes or no, please.
[qutoe]Emotional response? I haven't a clue what you mean by that.
[/quote]
I don't know. What if its a body shop and they use replacement parts from stolen vehicles?
How about if your talking contractors and unknown to you they use sub standard materials and thats why they are the lowest bidder?
But I agree on 1 point.
A company generally hires with their targeted business or consummers in mind.
Its only smart to hire employees that meet the demands.
Living in the present.
We keep hearing how if employers no matter the occupation were forced to hire legals to do the work then we would be forced to pay more.
Or the other excuse they wouldnt be able to compete.
How is it that companies that don't hire illegals are still competing with those who do? Could it be that the cost savings are not being passed on to the consumer?
If the laws were enforced accross the nation and all companies had to obey them who are we competing against?
Will China export landscapers?
Not every state is like Ca that offers safe haven to illegals and certainly not every town accross the nation offers sanctuary. Yet we have thriving businesses that dont use illegal labor.
I don't know a dairy farmer in my area that uses illegals and yet they do the work.
I fired a mason who showed up on my house because he couldnt show that 2 of his guys were here legally. Wheres the green cards I asked? Every legal know that they are expected to carry that card everywhere they go. His replacement brought in on short notice cost me a little over $100.00 more. On a house that cost 150 g to build 100.00 isn't worth talking about.
The factory I work in. Every employee before hired must provide proof of HS diploma or ged, birth certificate, pass a drug test, and submit proof of legal status. Yet We are the most profitable plant in the division. No ilegals on the floor.
I grow weary of the excuses.
We are too lazy
We are too expensive
Illegals only do jobs we wont do etc.
No we just want a fair wage for the work we are asked to do.
What jobs are next that only illegals seem qualified to do?
Auto mechanics? law enforcement?
What is a "fair wage"? Who determines that aside from the market?
What is a "fair wage"? Who determines that aside from the market?
The fair wage would be what is an accepted industry standard.
In other words if the average wage for a legal in a given field is $10.00 an hour then its fair to expect to paid that wage for the work your asked to do.
Now an illegal may do it for 7.00 an hour or even less. When you dont have to pay your taxes up front like everyone else your actually making more. I have yet to see anyone show that those employers who opt for illegal labor are passing the savings on.
We see examples given that meat packing plants cant compete unless they use illegals. Yet we have 2 plants near where I live that hire locals and pay a fair wage. Yet they remain in business.
We hear that hotels cant compete unless they use illegals. Well my niece from Thailand on some student work program just spent 3 months here. The avg room takes them about 15 min to clean. 2 workers. So thats .5 billable hours per room. She was paid $8.00an hour. So how big is that hit? Hardly any hit at all. Are hotels saying that people wont pay a couple more $ per night?
No we just want a fair wage for the work we are asked to do.
I'm not sure what that means. You don't want to compete with cheaper labor is what it sounds like. If someone offers to do a job for me for $100 and you want $150, and your only argument is that $150 is "fair" then I'm not going to ask you do do the work, and therefore you won't have anything to complain about.
The fair wage would be what is an accepted industry standard.
In other words if the average wage for a legal in a given field is $10.00 an hour then its fair to expect to paid that wage for the work your asked to do.
So let's say a bunch of auto mechanics (I picked them because you mentioned this particular profession) get together and decide that they want to make more money. So they come up with an "accepted standard" for their labor, they lobby their congresspeople, and a law gets passed making it illegal to charge less than that amount for auto repair labor.
I'm not sure what that means. You don't want to compete with cheaper labor is what it sounds like. If someone offers to do a job for me for $100 and you want $150, and your only argument is that $150 is "fair" then I'm not going to ask you do do the work, and therefore you won't have anything to complain about.
no.
What Im saying is if that cheaper bid is a result of dishonest or illegal practices then its an unfair advantage. To use such a contractor or accept such a bid then makes you as dishonest and dirty as they are.
Would you buy a TV if you knew it was stolen? What if it was really cheap?
So let's say a bunch of auto mechanics (I picked them because you mentioned this particular profession) get together and decide that they want to make more money. So they come up with an "accepted standard" for their labor, they lobby their congresspeople, and a law gets passed making it illegal to charge less than that amount for auto repair labor.
Sound like a good idea?
Not the same at all and I think you know this. However, by rewarding those who already have been proven to be dishonest with an amnesty does compare to your analogy.
no.
What Im saying is if that cheaper bid is a result of dishonest or illegal practices then its an unfair advantage. To use such a contractor or accept such a bid then makes you as dishonest and dirty as they are.
Would you buy a TV if you knew it was stolen? What if it was really cheap?
Plenty of legal immigrants are willing to do work for less as well. What then? If immigration were reformed or H2A visas were fixed almost all of these illegals willing to work for cheaper would be legal. In other words, them being illegal isn't ruining anything. You just want to keep clinging to this as an argument because you have little else to fall back on. You are proposing we destroy labor efficiency just to protect the jobs of people who, if qualified, should be able to protect their jobs themselves by being a better worker. Amazing how that works, I know. If the wage they are being paid isn't satisfactory they can find another job.
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