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Old 11-06-2007, 11:11 PM
 
Location: Helena, Montana
2,010 posts, read 2,042,585 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor View Post
In my experience immigrants (both legal and illegal) tend to be smarter, more ambitious, and much harder-working than your average American. Those folks who are unambitious and lazy generally stay home.

Ken
I don't believe that to be true in the least, but let's say for argument's sake it is; they still shouldn't be here. Good people, hard working people, less fortunate people, it doesn't matter. Everyone on the planet can NOT live in the USA. The line must be drawn before this country implodes due to overpopulation. Hence the reason for immigration policies already in place, and they need to be followed for this reason.
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Old 11-06-2007, 11:37 PM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
18,946 posts, read 21,936,951 times
Reputation: 6537
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleMan View Post
Everyone on the planet can NOT live in the USA. The line must be drawn before this country implodes due to overpopulation. Hence the reason for immigration policies already in place, and they need to be followed for this reason.
Have no disagreement with that.

Ken
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Old 11-06-2007, 11:57 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
1,459 posts, read 4,041,549 times
Reputation: 876
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor View Post
No offence, but yours was an incredibly stupid post. What does this have to do with the original post - nothing at all. It's simply an attempt to deflect attention from the original point in some kind of juvile tit-for-tat kind of contest - as if to say "well, you say we do bad things here, look what they are doing there" - and then you try to link it to the folks coming across the border as if the Mexican officials your article mentions are now somehow magically the same folks coming across the border. I sure don't recall seeing that mentioned in the article you linked to.

There may be all kinds of valid arguments that can be made against illegal immigration - but your post certainly isn't one of them.

Ken
As soon as I read your post I knew you were linked south of the border in some way. What I was refering to was the trash in mexico that rapes these women and young girls coming across the border, They come here and think it's ok to rape the women and children in this country as well.

Don't take my word for it just look up the sex crimes in this country committed by illegal alinens. But I'm thinking you just didn't like what you read in that article and you're trying to put your words in someone else mouth.
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Old 11-07-2007, 12:13 AM
 
635 posts, read 1,559,968 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1932739
They come here and think it's ok to rape the women and children in this country as well.
Yes, basically there are no rape laws in Mexico or Central America. They feel it's ok to rape, you know it's third world savage thinking.
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Old 11-07-2007, 12:29 AM
 
Location: Helena, Montana
2,010 posts, read 2,042,585 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JesusisLord View Post
Yes, basically there are no rape laws in Mexico or Central America. They feel it's ok to rape, you know it's third world savage thinking.
Did you ever think those running from the law in Mexico come here avoid jail in Mexico? Do you want these people in your neighborhood? I surely don't want them in mine. Exactly why the process of immigration is in place, to keep people like this out. With no backround check, no records, no fingerprint or identification information in US law enforcement databases, it makes it next to impossible to find one of these people if they commit a crime here. No photo, no name to go by, they might as well be invisible.
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Old 11-07-2007, 06:56 AM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,689,216 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor View Post

In my experience immigrants (both legal and illegal) tend to be smarter, more ambitious, and much harder-working than your average American. Those folks who are unambitious and lazy generally stay home.

Ken
Where do you think a good portion of the people in this country came from? Do you think they just sprung up out from under rocks when no one was looking? Unless you are 100% Native American Indian, then you come from immigrant stock.

This country has had it's up and downs, but it has come further in 200 years than any other country on the face of this earth--and the innovation to do so has come from Americans of ALL ethnicities--no matter what country of origin they or their ancestors may have come from.

You should tuck that ignorance back in--it's flapping in the breeze.
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Old 11-07-2007, 07:49 AM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,710,869 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor View Post
In my experience immigrants (both legal and illegal) tend to be smarter, more ambitious, and much harder-working than your average American. Those folks who are unambitious and lazy generally stay home.

Ken
If the illegals we have here in the US represent the 'cream of the crop' of their home countries, than the situation south of the border is truly beyond hope.
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Old 11-07-2007, 08:02 AM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
18,946 posts, read 21,936,951 times
Reputation: 6537
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim280 View Post
What I was refering to was the trash in mexico that rapes these women and young girls coming across the border, They come here and think it's ok to rape the women and children in this country as well.

Don't take my word for it just look up the sex crimes in this country committed by illegal alinens. But I'm thinking you just didn't like what you read in that article and you're trying to put your words in someone else mouth.
Again, what did your article have to do with the folks crossing the border? The article wasn't about criminals committing rapes, but about corrupt authorities preventing rape victims from gettig the care they need. It's not those authorities that are crossing the border - it's people that are tired of the lack of opportunity (and the very corruption the article mentions) that are coming here. Heck, such situations can be construed as grounds for political asylum so your post sure doesn't help your cause. There are many legitimate arguments on why the borders need to be tightened down, but your post isn't one of them.

I didn't put any words into your mouth, I've just pointed out that your post was completely irrevelent to the issue at hand - that is that illegal aliens are often taken advantage of by us "morally superior" Americans. Bad people looking to take advantage of others who are weaker are everywhere - even in the US (most of them actually BORN here), even right here on this board.

Ken

PS - If you really want to stop illegal immigration, quit going after the immigrants and start going after the businesses that hire them. It's far cheaper and far more effective. Illegal immigration occurs because it is good business for business. They get cheaper labor, they fudge (or sometimes even ignore completely) labor laws that were put in place to protect workers' rights (even yours and mine) - and when they are raided they get a slap on the wrist, the workers are deported, and the company turns right around and hires new ones. All this occurs because of political collusion in Congress, the White House and at the state and local levels. American businesses make big money off of illegal aliens and thus have little incentive to change - so if you want to stop the flow of illegals aliens you've got to hit hard at what is drawing them here to begin with. Forget rounding them en mass and throwing them across the border. You're going to end up looking like a bunch of racist NAZI thugs and creating a PR and financial nightmare - there are WAY too many of them to do this effectively without turning the USA into a police state.

You don't shut down drug dealing by going after the users, you shut down drug dealing by going after the suppliers. In this case American business are the supplers - not of drugs, but of jobs, and illegal aliens are the users. The problem is American business gives big money in political contributions to prevent any meaningful change (but of course there is NO such thing as corruption right here in the good old US of A - is there?). They sure as heck don't want to be shut down or slapped with any sort of substantial punishment (either fines or jail time) so they fight tooth and nail to prevent any change in the laws that will adversely effect THEM.

All this constant harping on the illegals being criminals, being sick, being leaches all sounds wayyyyyyyyyy too much like the NAZI's ignorant claims against the Jews - and, I suspect, being put forth by people with the same racist mind-set.

I agree illegal immigration is a serious issue and that immigration restrictions and rules should be inforced in order to keep out those folks who have criminal backgrounds and/or illnesses. The problem I have with most of the posts here is that there are barely-hidden racist overtones to so many of them. I feel like I'm sitting in a room full of KKK members. Controlling immigration IS not and SHOULD not be a race issue - and as a student of history I find the parallels to both the American roundup of Japanese-Americans in WW II and the NAZI persecution of the Jews to extremely disturbing. I realize that everytime there has been a major wave of immigration by any particular nationality there has always been a backlash by ignorant locals who blame fhe new immigrants for everything from an increase in crime to the spread of plague, to breakdown of American morality. In the past these arguments have been largely fictitous, and I believe they are largely fictitious now (or at the very least, blown way out of proportion). Look up what your fellow Americans were saying about the "dirty Irish" in the middle of the 19th Century and many posts on this board will sound awfully familiar.

So, again, if you want to stop the flow of illegals immigrants, leave the people alone and go after the businesses that hire them. It's a whole lot less racist-sounding and a whole lot more likely to work.

And yes, as I've said, I'm sure I have relations (though marriage) down south of the border somewhere. I've never met them, I don't know who they are - but I'm sure I have some somewhere since my wife's sister was married into a Hispanic family at one time. They were here legally and had been for several generation (longer than my own family line) - but I'm sure they have 2nd or 3rd cousins across the border somewhere whom they have never met -just as I have the same in Germany and the UK. What does THAT have to do with ANYTHING - or do you need to have south of the border connections in order to be rational and clear-thinking?
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Old 11-07-2007, 08:17 AM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
18,946 posts, read 21,936,951 times
Reputation: 6537
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
Where do you think a good portion of the people in this country came from? Do you think they just sprung up out from under rocks when no one was looking? Unless you are 100% Native American Indian, then you come from immigrant stock.

This country has had it's up and downs, but it has come further in 200 years than any other country on the face of this earth--and the innovation to do so has come from Americans of ALL ethnicities--no matter what country of origin they or their ancestors may have come from.

You should tuck that ignorance back in--it's flapping in the breeze.
Absolutely I came from immigrant stock. In fact my father was the first of his line born here and my mother immigrated from Britain back in the early 50's - so yeah, I understand very well the type of people who are drawn to the USA, probably FAR better than you do. America's greatest strength is in fact it's immigrants, and always has been. Immigrating to ANY new location, whether be a different country or simply a different state can be a scary and risky proposition because you are leaving behind the security of everything and everyone you know. Timid, unabitious folks don't do that. No matter how bad it may be at home, they stay there and put up with it. It's those folks with drive and ambition that pack up and move to a new place to seek better opportunities. Such people people tend to be far more ambitious than those that are born and raised right here at home - if they hadn't been, they would have stayed home.

Far too many Americans have grown fat and lazy - secure in the knowledge that they live in the richest, most powerful country on earth. Immigrants are not only willing to take cheaper pay, they work harder than your typical home-grown American - simply because they have the drive to succeed.

You need to read my post again as you don't seem to understand what I've said. My very contention is that it's ALL those different folk - but especially the new immigrants - who make America what is it.

Ken
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Old 11-07-2007, 08:38 AM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,710,869 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor View Post
Absolutely I came from immigrant stock. In fact my father was the first of his line born here and my mother immigrated from Britain back in the early 50's - so yeah, I understand very well the type of people who are drawn to the USA, probably FAR better than you do. America's greatest strength is in fact it's immigrants, and always has been. Immigrating to ANY new location, whether be a different country or simply a different state can be a scary and risky proposition because you are leaving behind the security of everything and everyone you know. Timid, unabitious folks don't do that. No matter how bad it may be at home, they stay there and put up with it. It's those folks with drive and ambition that pack up and move to a new place to seek better opportunities. Such people people tend to be far more ambitious than those that are born and raised right here at home - if they hadn't been, they would have stayed home.
Two words: anchor babies.

Quote:
Far too many Americans have grown fat and lazy - secure in the knowledge that they live in the richest, most powerful country on earth. Immigrants are not only willing to take cheaper pay, they work harder than your typical home-grown American - simply because they have the drive to succeed.

You need to read my post again as you don't seem to understand what I've said. My very contention is that it's ALL those different folk - but especially the new immigrants - who make America what is it.

Ken
This is your opinion only. From 1924-1965 immigration was capped at very low levels. If immigrants are what make this country run like a well greased machine, I am surprised the US did not turn into something like Zimbabwe during this time of very limited immigration.
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