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LongFord claims he doesn't believe that legals are held to a different standard than illegals, then refuses to acknowledge that the Immigration Reform Bill absolutely gives illegals the head of line pass that Obama promised wouldn't happen.
You know, when someone says someone else has said something they haven't said ... they're labeled a liar. And when someone lies about one thing they generally lie about a lot of things. You might want to be careful when you state, falsely, I've said something I haven't. You wouldn't want everyone referring to you as "that liar," would you?
As for the 'head of the line' comment of yours: Maybe I'm misreading the most recent proposals in the Congress - the Path to Citizenship proposals. Because I don't see anywhere in the proposals the head of the line claim you make. Maybe you can point us to the specific language in those proposals that says that. Or is this claim something you've made up, as you made-up things I never said.
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He claims that illegals with have to follow the same path as legals ...
Gee, another lie. Seems that you're making a habit out of story-telling.
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Much like Obama and other illegal facilitators he likes to sugar coat what illegals really are.
Oh, why shouldn't readers be surprised .. you've lied once again.
Look, if you're going to take issue with things I say, fine ... just stop the lies, they make you look childish.
I find that condescending to me, having gone through the legal immigration process for my family. At least you are now understanding that the majority (in a decades-long trend) of legal immigrants initially enter the United States on "non-immigrant" visas. Two-thirds of all legal immigrants have a relationship to a U.S. citizen. Obfuscating that data is also a trend here on this forum.
Why are you unwilling (or unable) to describe a process that is seemingly simple enough that you expect illegal aliens to follow it, but can't quite put it into words (English usage) here? I've hit a theme in my time at City-Data, where a number of members seem to hint at a notion that the average person in some other country can just submit the right "paperwork", wait a few years, and be granted entry as a Legal Permanent Resident. Most of them also think that illegal aliens (and Mexicans that are an "Immediate Relative" to a U.S. citizen) can somehow "block" that potential legal immigrant to make them remain in their own country.
I was asking "BOS2IAD" for her description of the process a would-be illegal alien could follow to gain legal entry. We've discussed the concept of an I-601 here before, where it tends to be argued that the person then didn't "immigrate legally". Of course they did, it is also part of immigration law that recognizes that status can be changed. The point I am trying to make is that there is NO absolute condition that every legal immigrant must pass, to be able to say that illegal aliens must also observe the same steps (some legal immigrants don't have a "waiting" period, some don't need to file "paperwork" themselves", some aren't required to have a sponsor, some improperly apply for a "non-immigrant" visa over and over until they have enough of a foothold here to adjust status, etc.).
Again, that is entirely contrary to accepting refugees and those filing for asylum. It is not a rational response to say that illegal aliens aren't waiting ("sometimes for years") like refugees, but not objecting to those refugees being without sponsorship (an extreme likelihood to become government charges) and foreigners living in squalid conditions (there is nothing even close to a refugee camp for that attribute) with a high potential for diseases.
The vast majority of Americans are unfamiliar with our own immigration laws and the data behind it, on which I have heavily commented about on this thread, and throughout the time I have been participating on this forum. Somehow that has got me labelled as a supporter of illegal aliens, an "ethnocentric", and had an extreme reaction of a VA worker announcing here that she had accessed my financial records from me receiving service-related treatment. All I'm doing is showing disparities in the arguments I see against illegal aliens, which seem to always bear out than just being about "illegals".
But you're the one who was asking "BOS2AID" what process an illegal alien could follow to come here legally like legal immigrants do. Yet you already know what it takes to come here legally thus her comments to you. Just because "legal" immigration isn't a one size fit's all process doesn't change the fact that whatever avenue they take they are doing it the legal way. It isn't always possible for a potential immigrant to do that because they may not meet the criteria to do so but it's not acceptable to come here illegally anyway. That's the point that you seem to keep missing and that you keep spinning around. Refugees have nothing to do with illegal immigration that doesn't include a viable reason to be admitted.
I have already told you that you can't be an ethnocentric because you aren't of the ethnicity of the group demanding amnesty for illegal aliens. So why do you keep saying that I have ever said that to you? You could be a bleeding heart for various reasons. I just don't know what your defense of illegal aliens is based on for sure. You also keep repeating the same old personal stories in here about the past that has little or nothing to do with illegal immigration. The member you are claiming accessed your VA records to my knowledge doesn't even post in here anymore. I find it ironic that you constantly do that but you had no problem snooping into mine and my wife's personal lives. Sorry Yac, but it had to be said in the open forum as he won't allow any DM's.
But you're the one who was asking "BOS2AID" what process an illegal alien could follow to come here legally like legal immigrants do. Yet you already know what it takes to come here legally thus her comments to you. Just because "legal" immigration isn't a one size fit's all process doesn't change the fact that whatever avenue they take they are doing it the legal way. It isn't always possible for a potential immigrant to do that because they may not meet the criteria to do so but it's not acceptable to come here illegally anyway. That's the point that you seem to keep missing and that you keep spinning around. Refugees have nothing to do with illegal immigration that doesn't include a viable reason to be admitted...
No, she's being condescending and deliberately obtuse. The purpose of a forum is so more than just myself can see a response. My earlier reply to her addressed this, where I said that I would like to see her perceived pathway, not what I am aware of.
It's amazing to me that both of you allude to some process that someone in a bare-boned existence in another country should know, but we are going to waste several comments back and forth to hear it described here...
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Originally Posted by Oldglory
...I have already told you that you can't be an ethnocentric because you aren't of the ethnicity of the group demanding amnesty for illegal aliens. So why do you keep saying that I have ever said that to you? You could be a bleeding heart for various reasons. I just don't know what your defense of illegal aliens is based on for sure. You also keep repeating the same old personal stories in here about the past that has little or nothing to do with illegal immigration. The member you are claiming accessed your VA records to my knowledge doesn't even post in here anymore. I find it ironic that you constantly do that but you had no problem snooping into mine and my wife's personal lives. Sorry Yac, but it had to be said in the open forum as he won't allow any DM's.
Because her behavior in the matter got her banned. She felt confident enough to announce on the forum that she had used her VA employment to access a record (implying that she knew my name, revealing it to other C-D members, and learned my Social Security number, because it is the same as my Service Number) she was not authorized to see. In the same post she claimed to have learned that my family was also illegal aliens, and that we lived "hand-to-mouth". Are you claiming that I have done anything close to that?
Understand that I were interested in snooping, I would have "PurpleRain_1" fired and prosecuted for her actions against a veteran, in a government agency that is supposed to attend to their health and well-being (and now understanding with her as an employee, how that system could be failing them). I would also have the a$$ of the loser that said he had taken pictures of me and my stepdaughter outside our home. Per your comments above, debate the topic, not the member.
I'm not going to open myself to more DM's on a similar note of saying I have "Stockholm Syndrome" with my wife in the role of a "kidnapper". I've set a boundary, it's not an "open border". Are you still trying to cross it?
They aren't in the shadows anymore so I have no clue what Biden is about.
No one is going to deport them.
They can get jobs and welfare benefits if they have kids.
I would tell Joe that you just need Congress to rubber stamp the amnesty bill because we have stealth amnesty already in the US.
You know, when someone says someone else has said something they haven't said ... they're labeled a liar. And when someone lies about one thing they generally lie about a lot of things. You might want to be careful when you state, falsely, I've said something I haven't. You wouldn't want everyone referring to you as "that liar," would you?
As for the 'head of the line' comment of yours: Maybe I'm misreading the most recent proposals in the Congress - the Path to Citizenship proposals. Because I don't see anywhere in the proposals the head of the line claim you make. Maybe you can point us to the specific language in those proposals that says that. Or is this claim something you've made up, as you made-up things I never said.
Gee, another lie. Seems that you're making a habit out of story-telling.
Oh, why shouldn't readers be surprised .. you've lied once again.
Look, if you're going to take issue with things I say, fine ... just stop the lies, they make you look childish.
Not a lie was told. You in fact stated that you didn't see where illegals didn't have to follow the same path.
Head of line pass. Do illegals have to return to nation of origin to apply, then wait to be granted a VISA to enter the United States? NO. So I did not lie, nor exaggerate. My daughter is on a 7 to 10 year wait. Let me know when the immigration reform bill will impose the same wait on your beloved illegals.
If you are waiting in line for food and people cut in front. Then are served they got a head of line pass.
The same is true if we don't force illegals to wait their turn through the entire process.
Now if you can show me where illegals will have to do the exact same things that legals have had to do and are currently doing I will be happy to admit my mistake. That would include having to apply in nation of origin. If illegals get to stay and apply while living here that is a head of line pass.
I have not told one lie. Go back and read your own posts.
By the way personal attack is noted.
Personal attack? No. Just the truth. When you continually make things up out of thin air and falsely attribute positions or comments as if I've actually said those things ... there is a word for people who do that. If the shoe fits ... wear it. But in the event I've misunderstood your remarks ... feel free to post quotes of the statements you have said I've made which I've said you are not telling the truth about.
No, she's being condescending and deliberately obtuse. The purpose of a forum is so more than just myself can see a response. My earlier reply to her addressed this, where I said that I would like to see her perceived pathway, not what I am aware of.
It's amazing to me that both of you allude to some process that someone in a bare-boned existence in another country should know, but we are going to waste several comments back and forth to hear it described here...
Because her behavior in the matter got her banned. She felt confident enough to announce on the forum that she had used her VA employment to access a record (implying that she knew my name, revealing it to other C-D members, and learned my Social Security number, because it is the same as my Service Number) she was not authorized to see. In the same post she claimed to have learned that my family was also illegal aliens, and that we lived "hand-to-mouth". Are you claiming that I have done anything close to that?
Understand that I were interested in snooping, I would have "PurpleRain_1" fired and prosecuted for her actions against a veteran, in a government agency that is supposed to attend to their health and well-being (and now understanding with her as an employee, how that system could be failing them). I would also have the a$$ of the loser that said he had taken pictures of me and my stepdaughter outside our home. Per your comments above, debate the topic, not the member.
I'm not going to open myself to more DM's on a similar note of saying I have "Stockholm Syndrome" with my wife in the role of a "kidnapper". I've set a boundary, it's not an "open border". Are you still trying to cross it?
Again, you are repeating the same old stories and grievances over and over in here. Neither myself nor my wife have ever used the term "Stockholm Syndrome" as we don't even know what that is. Neither us have ever said your wife kidnapped you either. My wife may have asked you if your immigration views have been influenced by your wife's ethnicity but asking a question is different than making an accusation.
There is still no excuse to stalk people and even go so far as to investigate my wife's ancestors. You complain that you don't like being stalked (and neither myself or my wife would ever do such a thing) and yet you did it yourself? Isn't that a bit hypocritical?
Personal attack? No. Just the truth. When you continually make things up out of thin air and falsely attribute positions or comments as if I've actually said those things ... there is a word for people who do that. If the shoe fits ... wear it. But in the event I've misunderstood your remarks ... feel free to post quotes of the statements you have said I've made which I've said you are not telling the truth about.
Have you not posted that illegals will have to follow the same path as legals? You in fact asked me to show where they didn't have to and I have multiple times.
Did you not post that not allowing illegals to serve in our military would put us at risk? I counter posted showing that the military has had no problem achieving recruitment goals. In that same post and I quoted you without adding or subtracting any of your words. Is that lying? Perhaps if you don't wish to be taken the wrong way you should be more careful in your phrasing.
You have on multiple occasions supported the Immigration reform Bill. Stating we can't round up and deport all illegals. Virtually every poster on the forum has tried at length to explain that a Mandatory E-Verify would cause many illegals to self deport once we make life impossible.
I don't make things up and tend to be one of the more neutral posters on this forum.
You have stated repeatedly that the immigration reform Bill needs to be passed to fix our immigration system. It is a porksters bill that does little to fix the actual problems.
You called it bipartisan which is after some hefty bribes to buy GOP votes were added to the bill. You denied this happened. Did you not watch as the senate Dems scrambled to get several of the GOPers on board? Miles of useless fencing, additional Border patrol etc. All to appease a few.
A more logical and thrifty fix would be to as I said pass several smaller bills that directly target the problems rather than a large comprehensive porkster that does very little other than pander to illegals and their supporters.
Waiting 5 years to implement E-Verify????? Why wait?
No sir I made nothing up and I never lie on any forum.
While you may wish to be unprotected in a time of crisis ... be it a national emergency due to natural disaster, or warfare ... I suspect you're in the very small minority of persons who wouldn't welcome the help of anyone who offered it ... no matter the color of their skin or their nationality or their immigration status.
Your words word for word.
Only 1 way to read this. Without illegals in our ranks we will be unprotected.
This will be the last time I reply to you. I honestly loath the ignore function, but I grow weary of this needless dialog.
Oldglory and tinman01 --- Once again, excellent posts. I wish that I could rep you both again!
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Longford---Here are some other ways in which this nightmare of a so-called "immigration reform" is nothing but amnesty. It forgives illegal aliens for the following items:
1) They don't have to pay back taxes. In other words, an illegal alien could be working under the table for 20 years and all s/he has to do is pay a $5000 fine and they get a green card. You try going 20 years without paying taxes. When Americans and legal immigrants engage in tax evasion, they are expected to make full restitution and even do some jail time.
2) They are forgiven for ID theft. If Americans and legal immigrants commit ID theft, they go to jail.
3) They are allowed to have up to 2 DUIs on their record and they still get a green card. Never mind that it is bad enough to get one DUI but even if the illegal alien got the DUIs while driving unlicensed, they are forgiven and rewarded with a green card.
4) All gang members have to do is sign a statement saying that they swore off gang activity and they get a green card. No one is going to check to see if they actually quit the gang.
5) If an illegal alien ignored an order to leave the country, it doesn't matter. S/he can still get a green card. In other forums, I've seen arrogant illegal aliens who ignored such orders complaining that amnesty isn't coming fast enough for them!
Oldglory and tinman01 --- Once again, excellent posts. I wish that I could rep you both again!
------------------
Longford---Here are some other ways in which this nightmare of a so-called "immigration reform" is nothing but amnesty. It forgives illegal aliens for the following items:
1) They don't have to pay back taxes. In other words, an illegal alien could be working under the table for 20 years and all s/he has to do is pay a $5000 fine and they get a green card. You try going 20 years without paying taxes. When Americans and legal immigrants engage in tax evasion, they are expected to make full restitution and even do some jail time.
2) They are forgiven for ID theft. If Americans and legal immigrants commit ID theft, they go to jail.
3) They are allowed to have up to 2 DUIs on their record and they still get a green card. Never mind that it is bad enough to get one DUI but even if the illegal alien got the DUIs while driving unlicensed, they are forgiven and rewarded with a green card.
4) All gang members have to do is sign a statement saying that they swore off gang activity and they get a green card. No one is going to check to see if they actually quit the gang.
5) If an illegal alien ignored an order to leave the country, it doesn't matter. S/he can still get a green card. In other forums, I've seen arrogant illegal aliens who ignored such orders complaining that amnesty isn't coming fast enough for them!
Thank you for a most reasonable post....
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