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"Mexico is radically, substantively, ferociously different from the United States," Jorge Castañeda, formerly Mexico's foreign minister, observed in 1995.
Rural Mexicans have dominated the migrant wave, bringing a country-style sense of time and priorities. For Americans, a transfer of Mexican rural culture to our neighborhoods leaves many feeling overwhelmed.
"Certain Mexicans can subscribe to a series of rules, from traffic regulations to work discipline and punctuality; others can decide, consciously or otherwise, that they prefer not to," Dr. Castañeda wrote.
Illegal immigration exacerbates the natural tension in American society by injecting more change than can be absorbed – and by defying laws designed to control the rate of change. When immigration restrictionists protest defiance of "law and order," they reveal anger at the cultural revolution Latino immigrants bring – a revolution many U.S. citizens feel powerless to stop.
I recall when Castaneda wrote this...It struck me as 'on target' then, and it still does. Rapid, uncontrolled immigration makes assimilation more difficult than it should otherwise be...and 'rural' values in 'the big city' make even more misunderstandings.
I'm reminded of the LAPD's yearly reminders on the radio in recent years.... "Don't shoot your guns in the air on New Years Eve". That's OK back on the 'rancho', but in a densely-populated city, the results can be tragic. Each year it seemed like one or two people got killed or injured like this.
I haven't heard these announcements in the last few years...maybe people are learning.
no not 20 million, but really we cant compare the immigration of then to the one of now. the process is completely different. coming here legally back then was equivalent to stepping off a boat, giving your name (even changing it if you so desired), undergoing a cursory health check, detainment for a week or so, and voila given citizenship.
but if you do still want to compare immigration from then to now, well back then the PERCENTAGE of immigrants was HIGHER than what it is now.
so if you think its bad, you would have left the country in flash back then. people couldnt stop complianing about italians. and irish. and polish. and chinese.
dam i really tried to stay away from this thread.its just so silly. i really did resist for a long time. but dam the trolls dragged me under their bridge!!!!
anyhow, invasion! pffff
I have to spread some love. Otherwise, I would rep you.
I think it is difficult for people to understand that back then, there was an "open immigration" to only European countries and no one else. Once they arrived here, it was pretty much, wait in line a few hours to get you registered and "this is your new home". The difference now is that for years, we have maintained a non-official registration. We have known that they were here for even as much as 25 years and it was okay as long as they helped build our economy with their cheap labor...exploitation. Now people fear an invasion of "brown" people. So silly...
I have to spread some love. Otherwise, I would rep you.
I think it is difficult for people to understand that back then, there was an "open immigration" to only European countries and no one else. Once they arrived here, it was pretty much, wait in line a few hours to get you registered and "this is your new home". The difference now is that for years, we have maintained a non-official registration. We have known that they were here for even as much as 25 years and it was okay as long as they helped build our economy with their cheap labor...exploitation. Now people fear an invasion of "brown" people. So silly...
The fact that an illegal has worked here for years does not entitle them to citizenship. If an American economist works in London for 15 years and shows up at the UK Border Agency insisting that he be given British citizenship because he has worked in the country for years, I suspect the economist would be told that he must return to his home country, go to the back of the line and apply for British citizenship just like everyone else is expected to do.
I live pretty much surrounded by Hispanics all day and most of the night. Relatively few of those in my circle speak Spanish 'exclusively'....many of them are bilingual, and many of THOSE prefer English. A certain percentage of these Hispanics don't speak Spanish fluently enough to be of any use....and a FEW of them even turn to ME for translation...(and my Spanish is just 'adequate').
I've never encountered the problem you describe...but perhaps we run in different circles...though I live in Southern Cal. too..
Recent immigrants of course usually prefer Spanish....but in subsequent generations? Not in my experience. Some of them can't even get their kids INTERESTED in learning correct Spanish.
I didn't say they weren't bi-lingual. What I said is that wherever I go they are speaking exclusively in Spanish. Are they all new "immigrants"? I doubt it. I have seen what appears to be entire families together in stores from pre-school to the grandparents and they are nearlly all speaking in Spanish. That isn't assimilation to me.
I didn't say they weren't bi-lingual. What I said is that wherever I go they are speaking exclusively in Spanish. Are they all new "immigrants"? I doubt it. I have seen what appears to be entire families together in stores from pre-school to the grandparents and they are nearlly all speaking in Spanish. That isn't assimilation to me.
Not in the traditional sense, no. We had an 'assimilation' discussion on the 'legal immigration' thread, in which I stated that in my opinion, 'assimilation' may become a thing of the past. If a society truly sees itself as multicultural in every sense of the word, how then could anyone expect to ever becone 'assimilated'? Assimilated to WHAT? In a truly multicultural society, the newest immigrant would ARRIVE, already assimilated...to his own culture. He wouldn't need to assimilate to an American culture, that in his eyes, didn't exist. Nor would we press him to assimilate, being unable to tell him exactly what is expected of him if he intends to become 'an American'.
Assimilation in that situation is meaningless.
This is all quite recent in America...'multiculturalism' goes back no farther than 25 or 30 years. Will such a society, if it ever happens, "work", permanently? Will a society be able to 'pull together' over the long haul, in good times and bad, while enjoying nearly unlimited personal rights and freedoms, with no accepted or agreed-upon common culture? I don't believe it will...but only time will tell. We're determined to try, it seems.
My own PERSONAL opinion, for what it's worth, is that at some point, we're either going to have to scale back on the 'multiculturalism', and agree that we need a strong set of common values, like it or not.....OR, we're going to have to scale back on our personal freedoms, and simply agree to live under a system that more-or-less FORCES us all to 'get along'...whether we 'like' each others' cultures and behavior, or not.
Not in the traditional sense, no. We had an 'assimilation' discussion on the 'legal immigration' thread, in which I stated that in my opinion, 'assimilation' may become a thing of the past. If a society truly sees itself as multicultural in every sense of the word, how then could anyone expect to ever becone 'assimilated'? Assimilated to WHAT? In a truly multicultural society, the newest immigrant would ARRIVE, already assimilated...to his own culture. He wouldn't need to assimilate to an American culture, that in his eyes, didn't exist. Nor would we press him to assimilate, being unable to tell him exactly what is expected of him if he intends to become 'an American'.
Assimilation in that situation is meaningless.
This is all quite recent in America...'multiculturalism' goes back no farther than 25 or 30 years. Will such a society, if it ever happens, "work", permanently? Will a society be able to 'pull together' over the long haul, in good times and bad, while enjoying nearly unlimited personal rights and freedoms, with no accepted or agreed-upon common culture? I don't believe it will...but only time will tell. We're determined to try, it seems.
My own PERSONAL opinion, for what it's worth, is that at some point, we're either going to have to scale back on the 'multiculturalism', and agree that we need a strong set of common values, like it or not.....OR, we're going to have to scale back on our personal freedoms, and simply agree to live under a system that more-or-less FORCES us all to 'get along'...whether we 'like' each others' cultures and behavior, or not.
As I said, time will tell.
No, we are NOT multi-cultural per se. We have our own unique culture which includes the English language. "Out of many, One". We have always been a melting pot which means adopting the American culture (particulary out in public) while still retaining some of one's ancestor's culture at home if one so chooses. We have always been multi-racial but that is a whole different scenario also.
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