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You sound just like Jdubs mom, with your theory on 'inferior cultures'. It just sounds more purty and has less smileys()
Its way different though. Because we are the United States, and that was a long time ago.
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OK, I'll lay off you. There is simply no point in our discussing this any further, since your belief system simply doesn't have any way to accomodate mine. I guess we'll just have to differ..
So for NOW, as far as "we" are both concerned, I'll 'give you' the following points...(I don't BELIEVE them, but I'll give them to you, in the interests of stopping the 'mud slinging')..
**...There ARE no "inferior cultures".....ALL cultures bring out the best in their members, and encourage them to do well. All cultures value their women and their poor, and none of them preach 'exclusion' of anyone. All cultures push education, discipline, and self-improvement, and all cultures encourage their members to respect other cultures. Any discrepancies in this are just a matter of "luck"..call it "fate" if you will.
**...There is NO practical or demonstrable difference in doing "bad things" NOW, or in doing them 50, 100, or 200 years in the past...and NO difference, either, in what WE all do wrong, and in what our ANCESTORS did wrong..it's ALL wrong, and we're ALL guilty....you, me, and everyone else. It's possible that white people may be just a little MORE guilty, though, because they had the technology to to MORE evil than others, and that this technology was undoubtedly stolen FROM others. But basically, we're ALL guilty, and it's up to ALL of us now to 'make up' for this...which we'll DO, as soon as things today are made 'fair'.
**...NOBODY 'gets ahead' without SOMEHOW doing so at the expense of others. Affluence, freedom, and education, are, in and of themselves, evidence of wrongdoing...similarly, poverty, strife, and corruption are NEVER the fault of those who suffer them..look hard enough, and far enough into the past, and you can ALWAYS make a case that these things were caused by others, not by their victims. Personal behavior has NEVER been a reason for affluence, and personal failure is NEVER an acceptable reason for poverty. These things just 'happen'.
**...Illegal immigration MAY be a minor problem...but Americans have no right to complain about it, in light of their OWN abusive, violent history, and the fact that they THEMSELVES are largely a pretty 'crooked' culture. Therefore, they should all just "shut up" about it. Most Americans' ancestors arrived here under VERY questionable circumstances, anyway..either illegally (just like today's illegals)...or under the protection of the law, a law we all know was really about bringing in 'cheap labor'. When Americans' ancestors DID get here, they were all encouraged to 'celebrate their differences', and that's how we won World War II.
**...ALL mention of illegal immigration, from ANY vantage point, is really little more than a 'code word' for an open-season attack on Hispanics. Those who admit this are HONEST racists, and those who deny it are LYING racists. Hispanic-Americans who object to illegal immigration are DISLOYAL LYING racists, since they have all 'been there', and should 'know better', and thus Hispanic-Americans have a unique duty to 'stick together' with illegals, as a statement against the racism of society-at-large.
**...America is a nation that's just had a run of 'good luck'. Nothing else can account for its prosperity. Its system of laws and its carefully spelled out protections for ALL groups aren't the reason we 'get along' better than most countries..NONE of that is important, and we ALL know the reason America "works", is no more complcated than the fact that we all just "want to be here"..THAT'S the secret of ANY successful society..you don't have to "do" anything, nor do you have to "behave" in any way, nor must you make any effort to abide by the law (unless, of course, you 'want' to abide by it)...all you REALLY have to do is "want to be here".
There, amc...I've made a special provision to TRY MY BEST to 'internalize' your beliefs. At this point, I STILL don't really feel this way, but who knows? With enough practice and repetition, I just MIGHT be able to adapt to a whole new reality, right?
Ditto for me - it's funny because I put amc on ignore and only ever see his posts when someone quotes him. Macmeal, you have outdone yourself with this post and I can't rep you yet but here's me giving you props for one of your best worded rebuttals.
(P.S. I don't think it "sunk in", but you can keep trying! I threw in the towel weeks ago.)
I guess, if a much longer version of sarcastic mocking of what he thinks my "real" message is behind all my posts.
I wouldve settled for an explanation on how the Mexican cartels in Mexico as a sign of "a culture with a tolerance for corruption" is different from the alcohol cartels of the United States in previous times.
But I dont think Mac likes to talk about specific things. He likes to make a "point" by writing his soliloquies about how he knows better...through sarcasm of course.
There isn't really any adding to the discussion. Its just not.. worth it. (sigh).
So its better to dance around it, and dismiss it for being anti-white(sigh) propaganda.
In the end, its just funner to dangle the keys in front of the anti-illegals who are very indiscriminate in who they cheer, as long as the person is loosely on "their side".
I wouldve settled for an explanation on how the Mexican cartels in Mexico as a sign of "a culture with a tolerance for corruption" is different from the alcohol cartels of the United States in previous times.
But I dont think Mac likes to talk about specific things. He likes to make a "point" by writing his soliloquies about how he knows better...through sarcasm of course.
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Thanks for responding. As far as the explanation you would have settled for, I have none, because, as I said, none would be accepted even if I gave it. If I DID, it would probably center around two factors:
(1) DEGREE....Mexico may not have a culture "wallowing" in corruption, on the world scale of cultures. But certainly, it's a culture MANY TIMES more accepting of the inevitability of corruption in ALL phases of public life than is the culture of the US. Call us 'naive' if you like, but Americans still retain the capacity to be shocked, outraged, and even 'surprised' at the uncovering of a "dirty cop", or a politician "on the take". Mexicans (and most OTHER residents of planet Earth) have no such illusions. Corruption there is taken for granted, it's considered a 'given', and has no 'shock' value.
(2) TIMING...In your own words, you're comparing Mexico's drug cartel with those of the US "in previous times". That's the key. What happened in 'previous times' is different from what's happening now, or will be allowed to happen for the forseeable future. A 'reformed thief' is different from a 'working thief'. An 'ex-Alcoholic' is less a risk on the road than an 'active alcoholic'. And having ancestors who were members of a dysfunctional Third-World culture is different from being a member yourself, today. It's all in the 'timing'.
Finally, you mention sarcasm (as usual). Sarcasm is often the last refuge of those who start out to have an intelligent discussion, but find that it's impossible. Sarcasm often involves turning 'outrageous ideas' back on the one who originated them. When HE says them, they make sense...but when the OTHER guy agrees, the underlying silliness of the premises are exposed, and the whole thing sounds sarcastic. Sarcasm is a 'poor second' to reasoned discussion. MOST of your opponents don't use sarcasm on you, I'll agree...they've simply given up, and don't answer you at ALL.
Strange as it may seem, I MAY be the best thing you've got 'going' on this forum...at least I'll ANSWER you..
Thanks for responding. As far as the explanation you would have settled for, I have none, because, as I said, none would be accepted even if I gave it. If I DID, it would probably center around two factors:
(1) DEGREE....Mexico may not have a culture "wallowing" in corruption, on the world scale of cultures. But certainly, it's a culture MANY TIMES more accepting of the inevitability of corruption in ALL phases of public life than is the culture of the US. Call us 'naive' if you like, but Americans still retain the capacity to be shocked, outraged, and even 'surprised' at the uncovering of a "dirty cop", or a politician "on the take". Mexicans (and most OTHER residents of planet Earth) have no such illusions. Corruption there is taken for granted, it's considered a 'given', and has no 'shock' value.
(2) TIMING...In your own words, you're comparing Mexico's drug cartel with those of the US "in previous times". That's the key. What happened in 'previous times' is different from what's happening now, or will be allowed to happen for the forseeable future. A 'reformed thief' is different from a 'working thief'. An 'ex-Alcoholic' is less a risk on the road than an 'active alcoholic'. And having ancestors who were members of a dysfunctional Third-World culture is different from being a member yourself, today. It's all in the 'timing'.
Finally, you mention sarcasm (as usual). Sarcasm is often the last refuge of those who start out to have an intelligent discussion, but find that it's impossible. Sarcasm often involves turning 'outrageous ideas' back on the one who originated them. When HE says them, they make sense...but when the OTHER guy agrees, the underlying silliness of the premises are exposed, and the whole thing sounds sarcastic. Sarcasm is a 'poor second' to reasoned discussion. MOST of your opponents don't use sarcasm on you, I'll agree...they've simply given up, and don't answer you at ALL.
Strange as it may seem, I MAY be the best thing you've got 'going' on this forum...at least I'll ANSWER you..
Yours in peace....
Exaggerating and paraphrasing the most extreme and radical version of the argument is more like it.
Whatever makes the other person look silly makes you look smarter, right?
With so much ignorance on this board, why bother, Mac? Youre obviously above the discussion. Your opinions, common sense, and whats right is all the same. You have nothing to gain, or anything to consider other than your own beliefs.
A few of the "pro-illegals" who offered discussion and ended up leaving were actually turned off by your attitude. You don't engage anyone directly in coversation, because youre above it. Are you just here to be smug and mock people who think differently than you(which of course makes them wrong)?
If thats what youre after, why bother with city-data? Might as well browse through porn sites instead. They'd serve the same purpose with you.
But either way, let the great patriotic circle jerk continue!
What are you basing Mexico's "growing" drug addiction problem on? Personal experience? From what you see?
And why do you guys EVERY TIME, without fail, see what I say as "blaming USA for all of Mexico's problems"?
Do you think it's coincidence that before all the drugs went through Mexico, they use to go through Cuba?
What do those two places have in common?
Besides brown people that is..
Get it?? They are RIGHT NEXT to AMERICA. I'm not "blaming it" on America, its just the way it is. America DOES have a big drug problem. Supply and Demand.
Why doesn't Canada have the same problem as Mexico? Since they are both at America's border?
Last time I checked, Canada wasn't in between the United States and the jungles where drugs are produced.
Last time I checked, Mexico IS.
The direct route for drug traffic to get to the United States is through Mexico. Criminals in Mexico saw that as an opportunity to make profit off it.
And they did. They make A LOT of money out of it. But where theres a lot of money, theres competition. And then you have conflict.
With so much money in the drug traffic that flows HEAVILY to the United States consumers..youre going to have corruption.
Believe me..if there was nothing but snow south of Mexico, and lush, remote jungles north of Canada, the drugs would be coming through the north. Why? Because people WANT TO BUY THEM.
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Great post as usual. America is the #1 consumer of drugs and due to them Mexico or Colombia before and other's have the drug wars.
I wish America wouldn't have this need,desire and the drug cartels would not than be around.
America owe's us aid in combating the drug cartels they give money to . They are to blame
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Great post as usual. America is the #1 consumer of drugs and due to them Mexico or Colombia before and other's have the drug wars.
I wish America wouldn't have this need,desire and the drug cartels would not than be around.
America owe's us aid in combating the drug cartels they give money to . They are to blame
I don't think America is anymore to blame than Mexico, I'm just really against blaming the country of Mexico for smuggling drugs into America.
Its not Americans and Mexicans, its sellers and buyers. Its international crime with people on both sides of the border contributing to it.
Culture isnt to blame, its greed and addiction, and thats in every culture and country.
But I think American consumers is whats keeping the cartels going. Its just the way it is, but people dont like to hear it. Its easier to blame an outside source.
I dont think America is to blame, or owes Mexico anything, but both countries are suffering from drug trafficking, and they both owe it to themselves to fix it.
But I'm not really confident about it, and its not because of corruption in Mexico's government.
Theres always going to be a demand for drugs in America, and there will always be someone all too happy to get rich off that demand. You could seal the border airtight, and you'd see meth labs pop up all over the place. Or drugs from the golden triangle smuggled in via Canada's unprotected border.
Someone's going to fill the void.
You can knock off the Tijuana Cartel or the Juarez Cartel, and someone will just take their place.
The only way you could truly stop drug-related organized crime, is to legalize drugs. But thats not possible, and I dont think people are going to stop using them. So what can you do?
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