Missouri...Southern or Midwestern? (St. Louis, Springfield: relocate to, cars, basements)

[mrm84107]

Originally Posted by MOHIllbillyWoman

calling it a Civil War was wrong anyway since a civil war is warring factions against each other within the same country.

Exactly right. There has only been one civil war in our country's history, the Revolutionary War, where the insurgents fought against and overthrew the duly established government, during which individual citizens of the various states fought for and against the government. After the war those who had supported the established government were exiled or otherwise punished for their loyalty.

During the War Between the States the duly established governments of the serveral states either withdrew from the union, elected to remailn officially neutral, or took up arms as a political entity to invade the withdrawing states to force them back into the union.

What I find most interesting and indicative of what the nature of the union was intended to be are official documents written before and after the War. Before the War: "The United States of America are . . . " After the War: "The United States of America is . . ."

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by cheryljo

if anyone wants proof, visit Independence and see the Confederate Cemetary inside Woodlawn Cemetary. They even have an annual reinactment of a military funeral for the fallen confederate soldiers!

They've got plenty of Union cemeteries as well..most notably many Union generals/soldiers are also buried in Missouri, at least the part where I'm from. I believe the sake reinactment for Union soldiers also takes place annually here. Next

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by slahgirl

According to Southern Living Magazine(the secular "Bible" of the South) the entire Southern half of Missouri is included in the "Upper South." However, having many friends who live in the South, they tell me anyone living above Arkansas, in definately considered a 'Yankee.' So, as much as I want to be called a Southerner, I am afraid we are dillusional in our hopes, we are most certainly...Midwesterners.

Agreed there, except for the exception of Kentucky and Virginia. The Southern half of Missouri has many Midwestern characteristics in addition to Southern ones...they don't just evaporate (poof) like that...in any case...the Northern half of Missouri, St. Louis, and Kansas City are unquestionably Midwestern. Kentucky compared to most of Missouri struck me as being an entirely different state culturally, agriculturally, economically, even weather-wise....while the Southern half of Missouri and Kentucky lie at the same latitude, you honestly can't get two more different places than that. THe Southern half of Missouri above U.S. 60 and the 37 degree latitude line if you ask me shares more in common with Southern Illinois than any part of the Upper South. When Kentucky becomes Missouri's eastern border Missouri becomes flat and the corn belt ends. The corn belt includes roughly 85-90% of Missouri I'd say, so agriculturally it is much more Midwestern.

[blueatari]

This is the People's opinion.

I was born and raised in the Midwest, got a job and moved South, lived there 16 years, if you asked people in the deep South - Southern Georgia, and yes, I did ask, what they thought of Missouri, they would say "St. Louis". If you asked them if they thought Missouri was a Southern state, they would laugh their head off. To them, and they do have an inside vote, would say "No way Southern", regardless of what Harry the Historian says or Mike the Meteorologist thinks. To them, I lived there too, it is AL, GA, MS, LA, TN, SC, on the line is TN, NC, KY. AR, TX, and FL are not even counted.

[mrsgenealogy]

Originally Posted by Northwoods Voyager

Awww, ya gotta be kiddin me. Would have never thought of that Oh, well, here I thought I did something important for a change

Awwww! You always contribute much to the forum, NWVoyager! And you're definitely important to us!

Originally Posted by slahgirl

According to Southern Living Magazine(the secular "Bible" of the South) the entire Southern half of Missouri is included in the "Upper South." However, having many friends who live in the South, they tell me anyone living above Arkansas, in definately considered a 'Yankee.' So, as much as I want to be called a Southerner, I am afraid we are dillusional in our hopes, we are most certainly...Midwesterners.

Originally Posted by blueatari

...
I was born and raised in the Midwest, got a job and moved South, lived there 16 years, if you asked people in the deep South - Southern Georgia, and yes, I did ask, what they thought of Missouri, they would say "St. Louis". If you asked them if they thought Missouri was a Southern state, they would laugh their head off. To them, and they do have an inside vote, would say "No way Southern", regardless of what Harry the Historian says or Mike the Meteorologist thinks...

I can't remember if I mentioned this in my earlier posts on this thread but my family moved from MO to SC back in the 1940s, after WWII. My father said he had such a hard time finding work and even when he did, he said they were always calling him a Yankee and generally making him feel so unwelcome that they finally had to move back to MO. Until that time, he never thought that the Civil War was still on people's minds!

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by ajf131

Agreed there, except for the exception of Kentucky and Virginia. The Southern half of Missouri has many Midwestern characteristics in addition to Southern ones...they don't just evaporate (poof) like that...in any case...the Northern half of Missouri, St. Louis, and Kansas City are unquestionably Midwestern. Kentucky compared to most of Missouri struck me as being an entirely different state culturally, agriculturally, economically, even weather-wise....while the Southern half of Missouri and Kentucky lie at the same latitude, you honestly can't get two more different places than that. THe Southern half of Missouri above U.S. 60 and the 37 degree latitude line if you ask me shares more in common with Southern Illinois than any part of the Upper South. When Kentucky becomes Missouri's eastern border Missouri becomes flat and the corn belt ends. The corn belt includes roughly 85-90% of Missouri I'd say, so agriculturally it is much more Midwestern.

I really do not think that 85-90% of Missouri is part of the corn belt. Once again, most of northern Missouri is part of the corn belt, but a lot of central and southern Missouri is in forest land. The Mark Twain National Forest makes up a fairly large area of southern Missouri. The hilly terrain of the Ozark does not lend itself well toward corn and soybean farming. If you notice you will see more cattle ranches and dairy farms in southern Missouri because it is the best way to use the land agriculturally considering the rugged and uneven terrain in many areas.

[FrenchAmerican0721]

Overall, I would say that Missouri is a midwestern state. However, the southern most part of Missouri is definitely a part of Dixie. Southern most Missouri from US 60 south is pretty southern in style, accent, and culture. The southern part of the Missouri Ozarks is a very conservative area, and they are definitely a part of the Bible Belt like most of the South. I would say that places like the Bootheel, Joplin, Springfield, and Branson are Southern by most definitions. I would even say that parts of southwestern Missouri begin to have more of a Westerm feel to it than Midwestern. Southwestern Missouri borders Oklahoma which most people consider a Southwestern state. So you definitely begin to see Western influences by the time you reach southwestern Missouri. The southwestern part of Missouri reminds me of western Louisiana in some ways. Western Louisiana is definitely southern, but it also begins to have a western feel to it being so close to Texas.

[Alicia Bradley]

Culturally, to put it simply, Missouri is Southern. Southern. Southern. Rural Missouri (and bedroom communities--non-affluent suburbs, that is--of the larger towns), that is.

OTOH, Urban Missouri (essentially, Kansas City) is Northern. St. Louis is more Northern than Southern, but really more its own thing entirely.

Rural Missouri, though--as Southern as a Confederate flag wedged into a slice of pecan pie.

[Alicia Bradley]

(This poster lived in Clinton, Missouri [west-central part of state, SE of Kansas City] for ten years, followed by Columbia [good old CoMO.. ah, the People's Republic of Boone--miss it!] for another ten.)

Anyone who claims most of Missouri is not culturally Southern... well, I jis wanna smack 'em upside the head, gall durnit.

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by Plains10

I really do not think that 85-90% of Missouri is part of the corn belt. Once again, most of northern Missouri is part of the corn belt, but a lot of central and southern Missouri is in forest land. The Mark Twain National Forest makes up a fairly large area of southern Missouri. The hilly terrain of the Ozark does not lend itself well toward corn and soybean farming. If you notice you will see more cattle ranches and dairy farms in southern Missouri because it is the best way to use the land agriculturally considering the rugged and uneven terrain in many areas.

Look at maps and they will prove otherwise Missouri is definitely almost entirely in the corn belt.