Is Southern Ohio considered part of the south? (Columbus, Cincinnati: how much, median income)

[CookieSkoon]

Originally Posted by ABQConvict

I would say subtle, relatively, in relation to the rest of America. In may ways the Northeast and Midwest are the most closely related American regions.

Fair enough.

I'd say they are different in the same way Georgia and Texas are different. Not by a lot, but enough to make locals argue endlessly about it.

What I meant by imaginary is that a lot of the claims of difference aren't based in reality so much as one person's fantasy.

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by ABQConvict

I would say subtle, relatively, in relation to the rest of America. In may ways the Northeast and Midwest are the most closely related American regions.



Please elaborate.

Ohio Valley- Lower Midwest to Upper South.
1) Climate. The worst aspects of the North and South with few advantages of either region. Cloudy, dark, and cold winters, but with little snow- temperatures too mild to enjoy any winter sports. Spring and Fall are too short with small windows of pleasantly cool highs between the 50s through 70s. Summer brings about excessive heat and humidity, nearly as bad as the Southeast with torrential rains.
2) Economy. Combines the northern industrial architectural look, with less diversified overall balance sheet compared to areas of the Southeast and Sunbelt that are growing much faster. Work ethic is not close to northern standards or what I'm used to- much too laid back and many errors and mistakes are tolerated.
3) Infrastructure. Infrastructure was left to rot literally for decades with little investment and repair until very recently. Bridges, roads, sewers, city streets, stoplights, etc, all need repair, and that costs dollars. With the tax base in these areas generally not in good shape things get continually pushed back decades. Then when the projects come up to be done "all at once," people act surprised at the cost of everything. That goes back to the attitude that "it's good enough," and things get swept under the rug for far too long. Complacency generally= decline after a certain amount of time elapses.

[tedelpuppp]

One thing that I have not seen considered by anyone, though, I have not read every post, is the original settlement pattern dating back to the antebellum era. The Ohio River is not a good demarcation because it is a major valley and both sides of the valley within a certain distance from the river will be similar. Case in point, Southern Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois were the first places to be settled in those territories in the late 1700s and early 1800s. Those people all came from Virginia, North Carolina, and Kentucky. At the time of the War Between the States, many people living in those states sympathized with the South, though, because those states had much larger populations in the North, the states and their citizens stayed in the Union. Therefore, I would be willing to bet that the majority of the people living in Southern Ohio can trace much of their ancestry to Southern states.

[CookieSkoon]

Originally Posted by tedelpuppp

One thing that I have not seen considered by anyone, though, I have not read every post, is the original settlement pattern dating back to the antebellum era. The Ohio River is not a good demarcation because it is a major valley and both sides of the valley within a certain distance from the river will be similar. Case in point, Southern Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois were the first places to be settled in those territories in the late 1700s and early 1800s. Those people all came from Virginia, North Carolina, and Kentucky. At the time of the War Between the States, many people living in those states sympathized with the South, though, because those states had much larger populations in the North, the states and their citizens stayed in the Union. Therefore, I would be willing to bet that the majority of the people living in Southern Ohio can trace much of their ancestry to Southern states.

Decent point, I mean that. Although, I can trace a large portion of my family to Canada. Doesn't make me Canadian.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by tedelpuppp

One thing that I have not seen considered by anyone, though, I have not read every post, is the original settlement pattern dating back to the antebellum era. The Ohio River is not a good demarcation because it is a major valley and both sides of the valley within a certain distance from the river will be similar. Case in point, Southern Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois were the first places to be settled in those territories in the late 1700s and early 1800s. Those people all came from Virginia, North Carolina, and Kentucky. At the time of the War Between the States, many people living in those states sympathized with the South, though, because those states had much larger populations in the North, the states and their citizens stayed in the Union. Therefore, I would be willing to bet that the majority of the people living in Southern Ohio can trace much of their ancestry to Southern states.

Some African-Americans fleeing from slavery settled and prospered in southern Ohio. Actually experiencing and knowing free African-Americans changes perceptions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Parker_(abolitionist)

Many abolitionists also were active in Cincinnati and southern Ohio, perhaps because it was on the "front lines" of free states bordering slave states.

Levi Coffin - Ohio History Central

Underground Railroad - Ohio History Central

Harriett Beecher Stowe lived in Cincinnati before writing "Uncle Tom's Cabin."

https://www.ohiohistory.org/visit/mu...-beecher-stowe

My point is that there was a significant difference between the southern Ohio pre-Civil War culture and that of northern Kentucky, despite a higher preponderance of abolitionists and likely racists in southern Ohio than in more northern parts of Ohio. The large German immigrant population of Cincinnati strongly opposed slavery.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincin...ican_Civil_War

[on3]

South is LA, AL, MS, FL, GA

[CookieSkoon]

Originally Posted by on3

South is LA, AL, MS, FL, GA

And Arkansas, Tennessee, the Carolinas, Virginia, Kentucky, southern WV, the Missouri Bootheel, and a fair shake of Texas and Oklahoma.

If you don't at the very least think TN is southern too you must be insane.

[on3]

Originally Posted by CookieSkoon

And Arkansas, Tennessee, the Carolinas, Virginia, Kentucky, southern WV, the Missouri Bootheel, and a fair shake of Texas and Oklahoma.

If you don't at the very least think TN is southern too you must be insane.

TN I really wouldn't consider the deep south though. It's different than LA, AL, and MS.

[CookieSkoon]

Originally Posted by on3

TN I really wouldn't consider the deep south though. It's different than LA, AL, and MS.

Deep south perhaps not, but you did just say south in your post. If you meant the deep-south then I now see what you meant.

[GearHeadDave]

If you think about it in terms of what are considered "Appalachian" counties, here's a map. Almost half of Ohio is considered Appalachian. About the same as Kentucky, except the counties in Ohio stretch further West. They base this on topography, demographics, and economics.

https://www.arc.gov/research/mapsofa....asp?MAP_ID=31