Sunrail ridership Up, Looks like an Epic Success!! (Miami, Orlando: apartment, crime)
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I slightly disagree here, that rail transit COULD have benefited Orlando, had they chosen a route that served a purpose. They built on the cheap and got cheap results.
Would SunRail ever had been proposed if the Obama Camp wasn't handing out billions to launch rail subsidies across the country... absolutely not.
As you say, Orlando was not built properly for transit-especially commuter rail.
This is NOT, and in the foreseeable future will not be a 9-5 downtown hub of office city.
Well, to be fair, the Obama Camp's plan was to invest billions in high speed rail that would have linked Tampa, Orlando and Miami, which would have benefited LOTS of folks who otherwise waste time (and money) on short flights or long drives running back and forth between the cities.
I know especially in my line of work, with the amount of meetings that we have that require travel to and from Tampa and Fort Lauderdale, a high speed rail would have been gold.
Well, to be fair, the Obama Camp's plan was to invest billions in high speed rail that would have linked Tampa, Orlando and Miami, which would have benefited LOTS of folks who otherwise waste time (and money) on short flights or long drives running back and forth between the cities.
I know especially in my line of work, with the amount of meetings that we have that require travel to and from Tampa and Fort Lauderdale, a high speed rail would have been gold.
The Orlando, Tampa Bay line makes a lot of sense, if Miami and Jacksonville came online it would put Orlando as the Center, the hub. Not bad.
And what development is that? Because you'll be waiting a long time.
I dont have a terminal illness.....I have time. Its not a finished system, its still a work in progress. I wont just ride it to ride it, unless I had an actual destination to go to. My parents live near the Longwood and Altamont Springs Stations so when Im in town we will ride it eventually, just want to see more development.
I slightly disagree here, that rail transit COULD have benefited Orlando, had they chosen a route that served a purpose. They built on the cheap and got cheap results.
Would SunRail ever had been proposed if the Obama Camp wasn't handing out billions to launch rail subsidies across the country... absolutely not.
As you say, Orlando was not built properly for transit-especially commuter rail.
This is NOT, and in the foreseeable future will not be a 9-5 downtown hub of office city.
I don't know why you have to drag Obama into this since SunRail was proposed even before he became President:
"At the end of July 2007, Orange County, Seminole County, Osceola County, Volusia County and the City of Orlando all voted on and approved the Sunrail project. Osceola County had agreed in principle, but was still examining how to fund its $9.3-million share at the time.[10][11][11][12][13]
An agreement was reached between Florida Department of Transportation and CSX for the purchase of the tracks on November 29, 2007, and the Florida Legislature approved the CSX-Florida Department of Transportation agreement in order for project construction to begin."
Orlando also turned down a Light rail proposal back in the 1990's. SunRail wasn't a cheap alternative since it runs somewhat parallel to I-4 and now you have the I-4 Ultimate underway.
Rail systems like Light Rail need to acquire property along optimal routes to make such systems viable but the residents of Orange County rejected that in the 1990's & they didn't want to pay for it then. Mass transit will work in Orlando but that all depends how much the residents want to pay for it.
I don't know why you have to drag Obama into this since SunRail was proposed even before he became President:
"At the end of July 2007, Orange County, Seminole County, Osceola County, Volusia County and the City of Orlando all voted on and approved the Sunrail project. Osceola County had agreed in principle, but was still examining how to fund its $9.3-million share at the time.[10][11][11][12][13]
An agreement was reached between Florida Department of Transportation and CSX for the purchase of the tracks on November 29, 2007, and the Florida Legislature approved the CSX-Florida Department of Transportation agreement in order for project construction to begin."
Orlando also turned down a Light rail proposal back in the 1990's. SunRail wasn't a cheap alternative since it runs somewhat parallel to I-4 and now you have the I-4 Ultimate underway.
Rail systems like Light Rail need to acquire property along optimal routes to make such systems viable but the residents of Orange County rejected that in the 1990's & they didn't want to pay for it then. Mass transit will work in Orlando but that all depends how much the residents want to pay for it.
I have no political leaning in this place.
The proposal was certainly in place during the Bush Era, however none of these projects would get off the ground if not given out as federal gifts.
Sunrail was an incredible cheap alternative as the rail itself was purchased as right of way from CSX. Little to no new track was laid out. It doesn't go to the Airport, UCF, Disney, Universal, the major malls, or I-Drive- all the primary places that have heavy traffic and low wages.
Even if it does go to the airport, it likely won't be speedier than going from Downtown to MCO via the #11 Bus.
The I-4 Ultimate is a weak argument. If the only reason people would take public transit is convenience, if the main road becomes a nightmare- as soon as it's done and becomes as the most convenient form of transportation, everyone will go right back to I-4.
Resident's may be willing to pay, but you've got to provide results.
Realistically, ridership would have to increase 4x before the system is even worth evaluating keeping around. The ridership is absurdly low. It creates more traffic than it dissuades right now, that's a joke.
The thing is a joke. Remember too, Sunrail is NOT a light rail. It's a commuter rail.
There are places where those work, and places where they don't.
i don't know why you have to drag obama into this since sunrail was proposed even before he became president:
"at the end of july 2007, orange county, seminole county, osceola county, volusia county and the city of orlando all voted on and approved the sunrail project. Osceola county had agreed in principle, but was still examining how to fund its $9.3-million share at the time.[10][11][11][12][13]
an agreement was reached between florida department of transportation and csx for the purchase of the tracks on november 29, 2007, and the florida legislature approved the csx-florida department of transportation agreement in order for project construction to begin."
orlando also turned down a light rail proposal back in the 1990's. Sunrail wasn't a cheap alternative since it runs somewhat parallel to i-4 and now you have the i-4 ultimate underway.
Rail systems like light rail need to acquire property along optimal routes to make such systems viable but the residents of orange county rejected that in the 1990's & they didn't want to pay for it then. Mass transit will work in orlando but that all depends how much the residents want to pay for it.
I have no political leaning in this place.
The proposal was certainly in place during the Bush Era, however none of these projects would get off the ground if not given out as federal gifts.
Sunrail was an incredible cheap alternative as the rail itself was purchased as right of way from CSX. Little to no new track was laid out. It doesn't go to the Airport, UCF, Disney, Universal, the major malls, or I-Drive- all the primary places that have heavy traffic and low wages.
Even if it does go to the airport, it likely won't be speedier than going from Downtown to MCO via the #11 Bus.
The I-4 Ultimate is a weak argument. If the only reason people would take public transit is convenience, if the main road becomes a nightmare- as soon as it's done and becomes as the most convenient form of transportation, everyone will go right back to I-4.
Resident's may be willing to pay, but you've got to provide results.
Realistically, ridership would have to increase 4x before the system is even worth evaluating keeping around. The ridership is absurdly low. It creates more traffic than it dissuades right now, that's a joke.
The thing is a joke. Remember too, Sunrail is NOT a light rail. It's a commuter rail.
There are places where those work, and places where they don't.
Well you obviously do have political leanings on the issue otherwise you wouldn't have mentioned Obama.
As for ridership well what do you expect of a Commuter rail system that barely operates at night and there is no Weekend service to speak of? Hardly a set up for success now isn't it considering the amount of activities going on in downtown Orlando between the MLS & NBA games + cultural events in Winter Park & downtown Orlando with the Performing Arts center.
By the way I do know the difference between a Light Rail system & Sunrail. I really don't understand your premise that Sunrail needs to increase it's ridership by 4x before you think it is even worth evaluating keeping around.
Would you care to explain that?
Well you obviously do have political leanings on the issue otherwise you wouldn't have mentioned Obama.
As for ridership well what do you expect of a Commuter rail system that barely operates at night and there is no Weekend service to speak of? Hardly a set up for success now isn't it considering the amount of activities going on in downtown Orlando between the MLS & NBA games + cultural events in Winter Park & downtown Orlando with the Performing Arts center.
By the way I do know the difference between a Light Rail system & Sunrail. I really don't understand your premise that Sunrail needs to increase it's ridership by 4x before you think it is even worth evaluating keeping around.
Would you care to explain that?
Okay. I'll put this in easy terms because you come off as a dim bulb.
Commuter rails are established as railroad systems (heavy) whose primary purpose is to transport people from suburbs to a CBD during rush / peak hours.
They are not intended for the bar scene or weekend cultural events. sunrails agreement with CSX Is they will never run sun rails past 12am.
As for the 4x numbers. sun rail operates at 20% farebox recovery. Meaning they lose 1.60 on every leg they run. They also jeopardize federal funding for Lynx because the ridership is so pathetically low.
Its one of the least travelled rails in the country.
Would Orlando have better benefitted from a light rail? Sure... But for political reasons, this is what we got.
A bleed to many counties finances that serves a small few.
I don't criticize public transit... I'm on a bus right now.
However SunRail was set up with odds stacked against it, and its best to identify this early on before sinking more resources in a systematic failure.
Okay. I'll put this in easy terms because you come off as a dim bulb.
Commuter rails are established as railroad systems (heavy) whose primary purpose is to transport people from suburbs to a CBD during rush / peak hours.
They are not intended for the bar scene or weekend cultural events. sunrails agreement with CSX Is they will never run sun rails past 12am.
As for the 4x numbers. sun rail operates at 20% farebox recovery. Meaning they lose 1.60 on every leg they run. They also jeopardize federal funding for Lynx because the ridership is so pathetically low.
Its one of the least travelled rails in the country.
Would Orlando have better benefitted from a light rail? Sure... But for political reasons, this is what we got.
A bleed to many counties finances that serves a small few.
I don't criticize public transit... I'm on a bus right now.
However SunRail was set up with odds stacked against it, and its best to identify this early on before sinking more resources in a systematic failure.
.
Thank you for the insult by the way. I am quite aware what a commuter rail system is supposed to be considering I grew up in metro NYC and Miami. The trains don't just operate on "commuter hours" since Tri-Rail in metro Miami runs 16 hours a day. South Florida Regional Transportation Authority - Train Schedules
That being said SunRail is all Orlando has as far as fixed rail transit and it's ridership numbers are close to projections. It is basically a spine for further expansion including a spur to MCO in the future including tying into the All Aboard Florida trains eventually.
How does low ridership on SunRail jeopardize federal funding for Lynx? Care to explain that? I never heard of a funding disparity between different modes of transit in a metro area solely based on transit ridership.
As for Lynx it's quite a pathetic bus system for a metro the size of Orlando with barely any bus shelters or even benches with sign stops just announcing the route.
Oh and as for your "4x the ridership to make it before the system is even worth evaluating keeping around." You are looking for SunRail to basically pay for itself from farebox revenue which doesn't happen with any public transit in the US or in other parts of the world.
Last edited by Bobdreamz; 08-05-2015 at 04:33 AM..
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