New tallest building FINALLY coming to Phoenix! (Scottsdale, Peoria: condos, hotel)

[SynMelRN2007]

That is going to be NICE!!! When is it going to be finished? I want to move there!!! Who cares if there are no decent schools for the kids at least there is a grocery store!

[HX_Guy]

Hmm...am I sensing come sarcasm?

Either way, it's the first phase (two towers and the grocery/bookstore/etc) is supposed to be finished fourth quarter 2009 with the rest of the project (2 more towers) finishing in 2011.

[vegaspilgrim]

This is definitely the best thing to happen to downtown Phoenix in YEARS!!! This looks like a cool place I might actually go to. Let's just hope it all goes along as planned. The whining over Patriot's Park is absolutely pathetic. If the park space included in the development actually goes through, that would be a major improvement over the current park and the other two blocks of parking lots. I've also heard some people whining about the chain stores that will probably move in. If that's what it takes to bring back downtown Phoenix back to life, then so be it. This will help provide more critical mass-- and once that is built up, the unique locally owned businesses will actually have a market and a chance to succeed. From what I've seen on the internet, this kind of reminds me of the Power and Lights district, a planned development in downtown Kansas City.

[silverbear]

I'm not thrilled about the "chainy" aspect of Cityscape, but if Borders and P.F. Chang's are necessary to appeal to suburbanites and convention attendees who might otherwise find Downtown unappealing, then the project may be useful. Even Times Square in New York is amazingly chainy these days.

More interesting independent businesses are springing up -- largely without the benefit of city subsidies -- at the north end of Downtown near Roosevelt. I think that area will ultimately be the more compelling part of Downtown for those who are willing to seek it out, but the southern portion near the convention center and the sports arenas will bring in the crowds. The best scenario is for the two elements to balance and complement each other.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by silverbear

I'm not thrilled about the "chainy" aspect of Cityscape, but if Borders and P.F. Chang's are necessary to appeal to suburbanites and convention attendees who might otherwise find Downtown unappealing, then the project may be useful. Even Times Square in New York is amazingly chainy these days.

More interesting independent businesses are springing up -- largely without the benefit of city subsidies -- at the north end of Downtown near Roosevelt. I think that area will ultimately be the more compelling part of Downtown for those who are willing to seek it out, but the southern portion near the convention center and the sports arenas will bring in the crowds. The best scenario is for the two elements to balance and complement each other.

Good point. What is the draw for anyone in the burbs to go there if all they can find is the same chains they have right in their own neighborhoods?

Anyhoo, we must all wait to see if this ever gets built. There have been so many high-rise schemes and scams (remember the world's tallest building) talked about and glitzed up over the years in this city. Seems something always comes up, financing goes south, partners quit, tenents back out. I'll believe it when I see it.

On the other hand it will be something truly nice if it all comes to fruition - a major city with a sparkling new downtown area. So many of the US inner-cities are run-down, dilapidated dumps if you look just beyond the marble facades on the lower floors. PHX will be all new from the parking levels to the observation decks. Pretty neat - America's Dubai.

[EugeneBKLYN]

"Downtown Phoenix is rising"

Lol cute. I like that.

[SynMelRN2007]

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

Hmm...am I sensing come sarcasm?

Either way, it's the first phase (two towers and the grocery/bookstore/etc) is supposed to be finished fourth quarter 2009 with the rest of the project (2 more towers) finishing in 2011.

NO NO NO NO! I wasn't being sarcastic. I'm not moving to Phoenix until October LOL! It just looks like it would be beautiful. But....are there any schools there? LOL

[Steve-o]

*zip zip*

Ok, got my flame suit on. Here goes...

I dont see what the big deal is. Its just another condo building, thats not particularly striking in design, thats gonna attract more and more newcomers to an already overburdened part of the country. I could see being excited about a sculpture park, or a observation deck, or a museum/aquarium of sorts, but another condo complex?!?! Cmon, are Phoenicians really that hard up about new building projects? Especially ones that are not unique whatsoever? Put that building in NYC or Boston or Chicago and noone would bat an eye, theyd probably even gripe about it. Not to mention the fact that most of you guys think its already overcrowded there, so why welcome another building that will not bring anything exciting to downtown, attract more traffic, and block views that you all seem to crave so much? Doesnt make sense to me. Not trying to offend, Im just genuinely curious...

Flame away.

[silverbear]

Originally Posted by Steve-o

*zip zip*

Ok, got my flame suit on. Here goes...

I dont see what the big deal is. Its just another condo building, thats not particularly striking in design, thats gonna attract more and more newcomers to an already overburdened part of the country. I could see being excited about a sculpture park, or a observation deck, or a museum/aquarium of sorts, but another condo complex?!?! Cmon, are Phoenicians really that hard up about new building projects? Especially ones that are not unique whatsoever? Put that building in NYC or Boston or Chicago and noone would bat an eye, theyd probably even gripe about it. Not to mention the fact that most of you guys think its already overcrowded there, so why welcome another building that will not bring anything exciting to downtown, attract more traffic, and block views that you all seem to crave so much? Doesnt make sense to me. Not trying to offend, Im just genuinely curious...

Flame away.

There's actually been a lot of criticism of Cityscape by Phoenicians due to the issues you have mentioned. Here's the best critique I've read from a Cityscape opponent. I don't agree with all of it, but it makes some good points:

Life in Downtown Phoenix: Cityscape: No thanks

Personally, I have mixed feelings about Cityscape. I definitely don't think that Phoenix is too crowded. In fact, I'd like to see increased population density and less sprawl. For that reason, I welcome new high-rise living options. Still, the negatives about Cityscape for me are the following: 1) Phoenix needs to leave behind the notion that a single high-stakes project will turn Downtown around. 2) Downtown development should ideally focus on the unique rather than the same chains that flourish in suburban areas.

With all that in mind, I think Cityscape is a useful, productive development, but it can't be viewed as the entire strategy for Downtown. In must be viewed alongside the emerging clusters of galleries, independent restaurants, pubs, etc. as part of a multi-faceted downtown strategy.

[Magnum Mike]

I don't know about those people who are critics of CityScape, their opinions are based on what happened in the past with projects like Arizona Center. I haven't heard anything negative about Collier Center, so I'm not sure why they're viewing CityScape from a negative perspective, and it seems like the critic who posted the "CityScape No Thanks" article is really picking on very small things like submerged streets and chain stores. So what! Let chain stores open up downtown.

Like somebody else mentioned here, one project will not be the miracle our downtown needs, and if somebody expected the miracle to come from Arizona Center alone, well they'll be in for a big surprise.

Cityscape along with other projects will be the key to making downtown a place you want to visit. The fact that one of the Cityscape towers will replace the Case Tower as the tallest in the Phoenix metro and Arizona is definitely a step in the right direction. Heck, that alone will bring condo buyers, afterall, why wouldn't anybody want to live in the tallest building in Phoenix?