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Old 10-18-2010, 02:48 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,495,743 times
Reputation: 27720

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
Have to love the credit card mentality on this thread.

B-b-but we really neeeed it and besides we can just put it on the plastic.

If people don't understand the perils by now, they never will.
We were warned by our forefathers but we didn't listen.

"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."
Benjamin Franklin
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Old 10-18-2010, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Reality
9,949 posts, read 8,853,660 times
Reputation: 3315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
The governor is bloviating.

All he's done is attack teachers and raise property taxes.

The governor isn't fixing the problem. The governor is pretending it doesn't exist in the first place. He's an idiot.



This isn't the best or fastest. This is a problem. It needs to be fixed or NJ commuters will eventually face a complete breakdown of the system. Christie is like the daddy sitting in the living room of a house with a seriously leaking roof arguing that a little rain is somehow good for the furniture.

It's the usual Republican nonsense. We can afford to bail out investment bankers. We can afford trillion dollar useless wars. We can afford second home mortgage subsidies. But all of sudden we can't afford basic necessities.

Under that kind of short sighted thinking most great American public works projects would never exist and we'd all be traveling by private car or rowboat.
You need to take a step back and realize that the people of NJ elected the governor and there's nothing you can do about it. The majority of the people in the state of NJ support what he's doing and many people outside of NJ also support what he's doing. You are in the minority and no matter how long you huff and puff you can't change what's happening so either move or work to elect someone else when his term is up. Until then you're just sounding like a ticked off child who wants a toy that his parents can't afford.
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Old 10-18-2010, 02:51 PM
 
45,226 posts, read 26,450,499 times
Reputation: 24984
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
We were warned by our forefathers but we didn't listen.

"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."
Benjamin Franklin
That quote is apropos with so many of our current situations.

Ben Franklin was a very wise man.
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Old 10-18-2010, 02:52 PM
 
Location: South East
4,209 posts, read 3,590,080 times
Reputation: 1465
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
Have to love the credit card mentality on this thread.

B-b-but we really neeeed it and besides we can just put it on the plastic.

If people don't understand the perils by now, they never will.

Seriously! They would rather just get it and let the 'rich' be taxed to pay for it.
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Old 10-18-2010, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
6,476 posts, read 7,324,646 times
Reputation: 7026
Just wait till Christie's a Senator or President. Some heads are gonna explode.
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Old 10-18-2010, 02:55 PM
 
16,545 posts, read 13,455,215 times
Reputation: 4243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
The governor is bloviating.

All he's done is attack teachers and raise property taxes.

The governor isn't fixing the problem. The governor is pretending it doesn't exist in the first place. He's an idiot.



This isn't the best or fastest. This is a problem. It needs to be fixed or NJ commuters will eventually face a complete breakdown of the system. Christie is like the daddy sitting in the living room of a house with a seriously leaking roof arguing that a little rain is somehow good for the furniture.

It's the usual Republican nonsense. We can afford to bail out investment bankers. We can afford trillion dollar useless wars. We can afford second home mortgage subsidies. But all of sudden we can't afford basic necessities.

Under that kind of short sighted thinking most great American public works projects would never exist and we'd all be traveling by private car or rowboat.
Are you for real? Are you a teacher? He attacked teachers and raised property taxes? Can you please tell us how a Governor raises property taxes? I don't think you'll be able to explain that one. And the teachers....What a bunch of tools they are. They went around touting how they only do it for the kids and not the money, but when Christie said that if they made the SAME cuts that ALL other public workers and civil servants made, he'd return that money back to the chool district in their budget. Are you even aware of what heppened next? I don't think you are. The teachers AND their unions said NO WAY! So what are they actually in it for again? This tunnel is not something that is desperately needed right now. People are getting in and out of NYC just fine now and have been for many, many years.
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Old 10-18-2010, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
6,476 posts, read 7,324,646 times
Reputation: 7026
I LOVE this guy...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkuTm-ON904
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Old 10-18-2010, 03:01 PM
 
Location: NE CT
1,496 posts, read 3,386,215 times
Reputation: 718
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
Um you realize that private bus companies already exist in NJ and are often heavily subsidized by the state because they wouldn't work if they weren't? Fast rail also ready exists in certain places but isn't going to be attractive to an investor unless funded by the state at least partially. The truth is the roads and commuting system are far too important to be left to the caprice of private hands. Abdication of that kind of responsibility is abdication of leadership and therefore no governance at all.



Just because something is subsidized by the state does not make it an inherent failure. NYC needs a subway system. Without the subway system the city itself would be unliveable and attracting virtually no one let alone the millions who flock to NYC each year. It would be another Houston lacking charm and individuality. Conservative adherence to the idiotic belief that anything run by the government is inherently bad is silly.

The car itself is far more subsidized in the form of tax breaks to oil companies than any seat on the subway will ever be. Claiming otherwise is laughable. Cars are also subsidized by the deliberate designing of cities, towns and subways that emphasize the car as a means of public transportation rather than common sense public transport.

The following book lays out that historical process in great detail:

Amazon.com: Crabgrass Frontier: The Suburbanization of the United States (9780195049831): Kenneth T. Jackson: Books

If gasoline were really priced based on the effects of getting it in your car and using it you'd be paying five or six times what you do right now. That's simply a fact. The guy sitting in the subway isn't a tenth as much of a thief of taxpayer funds or a freerider causing our air to be polluted as the single driver in his large car.



I'm writing that certain investments are necessary. You don't let the house roof rot just because you lack funds at the present time. You borrow and fix it. Or you go homeless and have no one to blame but yourself.

I am fully aware of how NJ funds its mass transit and it is wrong. It is one of the reasons the state is broke in the area of transit. When will you people realize that users have to pay for what they use. You use your car, you pay for it. You use mass transit you pay the fare. We don't get susbsidies for car pooling. Users need to pay for what they use in the US.

I don't care how much fuel costs. The people who use it will pay for it and those who can't afford it won't use it, so long as the cost of fuel isn't weighted down by taxation. You can't trust the politicains to take in taxes for roads and use them for roads. They allocate that money to subsidize mass transit. Why should those who don't use mass transit pay for those who use it? Do those who use mass transit pay to subsidize those who use airplanes or cars? Nope. Your problem is crookled politicians who use taxpayer money and give it to overpriced susbsidized labor and entitlements that the unions provide its workers. Then the unions pay out the forced collected dues to those politicans who support their union. This is as crooked as a dog's hind leg.

If mass transit were privatized, the cost would be bourne by the riders. And if what you say is true about the cost of fuel, then most people would park their cars and mass transit would be a profitable enterprise and there would be no need to subsidise it.

Name five programs run by the government that are corrupt free and are successful in paying for their own existence. This is not a silly conservative notion. It is an economic reality. The governement eliminates competition and then runs an operation as I have already explained with the collusion of unions and big government and big business. If you didn't already know, your subsidized transit fits within is the definition of a fascist government. Furthermore, your example of the government subsidizing oil companies is another perfect example of how fascism works.

Fascism: The Concise Encyclopedia of Economics | Library of Economics and Liberty



Quote:
Under fascism, the state, through official cartels, controlled all aspects of manufacturing, commerce, finance, and agriculture. Planning boards set product lines, production levels, prices, wages, working conditions, and the size of firms. Licensing was ubiquitous; no economic activity could be undertaken without government permission. Levels of consumption were dictated by the state, and “excess” incomes had to be surrendered as taxes or “loans.” The consequent burdening of manufacturers gave advantages to foreign firms wishing to export. But since government policy aimed at autarky, or national self-sufficiency,


Fascism embodied corporatism, in which political representation was based on trade and industry rather than on geography. In this, fascism revealed its roots in syndicalism, a form of socialism originating on the left. The government cartelized firms of the same industry, with representatives of labor and management serving on myriad local, regional, and national boards—subject always to the final authority of the dictator’s economic plan. Corporatism was intended to avert unsettling divisions within the nation, such as lockouts and union strikes. The price of such forced “harmony” was the loss of the ability to bargain and move about freely.


To maintain high employment and minimize popular discontent, fascist governments also undertook massive public-works projects financed by steep taxes, borrowing, and fiat money creation. While many of these projects were domestic—roads, buildings, stadiums—the largest project of all was militarism, with huge armies and arms production

Last edited by brien51; 10-18-2010 at 03:09 PM..
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Old 10-18-2010, 03:29 PM
 
10,854 posts, read 9,303,308 times
Reputation: 3122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavaturaccioli View Post
Just wait till Christie's a Senator or President. Some heads are gonna explode.
I don't see why. It's one thing running for governor of New Jersey. It's a whole new ballgame running for President of the United States. It his political game doesn't play across several regions of the United States he's not a viable presidentital candidate, which seems to be a problem that Republicans have.
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:44 PM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
12,380 posts, read 26,856,553 times
Reputation: 4581
The Project was very flawed , so of course many of us in the Rail community saw this coming. However he has not canceled 5 other transit projects in the state , those projects can hurt your approval rating. Also the Project has not been killed yet , so this thread is started on a false topic.
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