Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-04-2013, 09:43 PM
 
13,186 posts, read 14,985,890 times
Reputation: 4555

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient View Post
I would encourage kids to get an education and go into high-technology fields where their skills will be well-compensated. If they lack the intelligence, then learn an in-demand trade.
This brings up another myth about the military. That these young "men" join for patriotic reasons.

That's a load of BS.

They are politically clueless. They know nothing about other societies. They are mostly poor students and recent immigrant just looking for a better position in life from where they are from. Be that some rural backwater or urban ghetto. I was the ONLY soldier from my base that took advantage of free tuition. They rest vegged out in the TV room, or drank themselves senseless every night.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-04-2013, 09:47 PM
 
1,523 posts, read 1,439,176 times
Reputation: 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by padcrasher View Post
This brings up another myth about the military. That these young "men" join for patriotic reasons.

That's a load of BS.
No it is not a load of BS. You should be ashamed for making that false statement.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-04-2013, 10:01 PM
 
Location: Flyover Country
26,211 posts, read 19,532,369 times
Reputation: 21679

Military Suicides on Rise: More US Soldiers Killed Themselves Than Died in Combat in 2012 - YouTube

Not exactly where caring parents want their kids going. Most are/were like me, they had no other options at 18.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-04-2013, 10:02 PM
 
5,261 posts, read 4,158,199 times
Reputation: 2264
I'm guessing I'll be waiting forever for that evidence that Mao, Saddam, Brezhnev and the rest had any interest in invading the United States, correct?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-04-2013, 10:05 PM
 
5,261 posts, read 4,158,199 times
Reputation: 2264
Quote:
Originally Posted by odanny View Post

Military Suicides on Rise: More US Soldiers Killed Themselves Than Died in Combat in 2012 - YouTube

Not exactly where caring parents want their kids going. Most are/were like me, they had no other options at 18.
The pathetic thing is that most of the parents who spout these mindless mantras about the military "defending our freedoms" would never for a second want their own kids to actually serve. There really was something to what Charlie Rangel proposed a few years back. Re-institute the draft and we would see some changes in rhetoric, attitudes and policy in an awful hurry.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-04-2013, 10:16 PM
 
Location: Flyover Country
26,211 posts, read 19,532,369 times
Reputation: 21679
Want to see what endless wars bring home? This is the harsh reality of desensitization to violence that repeated exposure to endless military adventurism yields. It aint pretty, nor is the following article easy to read.

The Cases - Interactive Feature - NYTimes.com

Oh yea, by the way, the count now is over 175, I believe.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-04-2013, 10:36 PM
 
1,696 posts, read 4,350,420 times
Reputation: 3931
My husband enlisted in the Army after 9-11. He did so for a variety of reasons, some "patriotic" and some personal. He had a particular respect for WWII and Korean War veterans like his grandfather. Unfortunately as soon as he joined his unit, he found that the reality of the modern military is very different than how everyone likes to describe the American military of the past. Instead of instilling morality and values and creating a culture that represents the best of what America is and can be, the military of today nurtures the worst aspects of American society and our culture.

In WWII and in the Vietnam era, there was conscription, which meant that a more representative cross section of society was in the military as opposed to the all-volunteer service we have today. In order to get people to sign up today, the Armed Forces use the same techniques as advertisers and entertainers to lure young people into a false reality in which their selfishness and narcissism is a virtue. They promote materialism by recruiting economically disadvantaged youths and offering them large signing bonuses and greater salary opportunities than they would otherwise have. When these young, inexperienced Americans are thrown into the modern military with this sense of inflated self worth as a result of basic training, as well as what they perceive to be new found wealth, they are easily brought into a culture of debauchery and dehumanization that most people would find appalling.

This is not an accident. In WWII there was a big problem with people actually pulling the trigger and killing other human beings. Along the way, some genius psychologists figured out that a military force would do its job of killing, raping, and pillaging better if it was not comprised of moral individuals who have respect for human life. Thus, they started using techniques such as trading out bulls-eye targets for pop up human form figures when training people how to shoot.

In a world where our country is on economic life support and any reduction in war or military spending is met with an army of lobbyists from the Defense industry, the only way to keep the corporate slimeballs fat and happy is to constantly wage meaningless and ridiculously expensive wars against tinpot dictators who we originally put in power in the first place! There WERE weapons of mass destruction in Iraq under Saddam Hussein. We know this because we have video footage from the 80s of Donald Rumsfeld shaking Saddam's hand as we armed him in his fight against Iran. The only way to keep the game going is to make sure that the people who are actually fighting the war have NO respect for the humanity of their "enemy" and NO clue as to what's really going on.

The military teaches and maintains a culture of dehumanization and ostracizes anyone who contradicts that culture. From my husband's experience, the only people who are edified by the modern military experience are those who recognize what is really happening and are able to fight against the odds and make it out to the other side.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-04-2013, 10:44 PM
 
7,359 posts, read 5,466,305 times
Reputation: 3142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Army Soldier View Post
There is nothing more prideful and patriotic than having the honor to serve the United States in the Armed Forces. I did for 20 years and wouldn't take anything back. Wearing the uniform was the best thing that could have ever happened to me. Today our nations young men and women lack morals and good values. Many are wimps and cowards. They lack respect for themselves and for our nations veterans. Our veterans have earned unbridled respect and we OWE THEM our gratitude. Many of our nations youth are lost in a society of moral decay created by liberalism that has spawned out of control political correctness. They lack pride and what it is to have honor. I want to say to many posters here that who are parents to talk to your kids and encourage them to join the military and take a oath to defend the Constitution. It's a great way to learn discipline. To see the world. To make friends. To learn a "trade". To get a guaranteed home loan and to get education benefits.

And did I mention, "Self confidence"? You would be doing them a favor and this nation a favor. Wouldn't it be great if everyone had to do mandatory time in the military? I think it would. So again, encourage your kid at a early age and prep them for the benefits of being a military soldier. You would never regret it. Our nation would never regret it.
I think people have different physical and psychological characteristics. Joining the military could severely damage an individual who isn't suited to military service, or joining the military could waste valuable time in the life of someone who is excellently suited to another pursuit. From the point of view of the needs of the nation, we may want to get as many people as possible into uniform during periods of emergency but from the point of view of general policy, I think we should be selective over who we encourage to join the military. That being said, those who do join the military are deserving of the highest levels of respect.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-04-2013, 11:08 PM
 
Location: Texas
37,949 posts, read 17,878,633 times
Reputation: 10371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Army Soldier View Post
No it is not a load of BS. You should be ashamed for making that false statement.
Back in the day my father and many Americans signed up after we were attacked by Japan. They took an oath to protect out country, with it's government of democratically elected leaders against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
You cannot expect to come into someones house and get away with it. That was a huge mistake by the Japanese. I'm sure I'm telling you something you already know.

Fast forward to Viet Nam. He told me the 3 usual reasons given by Vietnamese who wanted to sign up when he was there. In reverse order of accepting them into the fight.
1. Patriotism
2. They had family who were raped or killed
3. Their oxen was killed and they had no way to support family.

He said out of the three the ones who fell into the 3rd category stayed with it the longest. Nothing was worse than being helpless and watching as your family starves.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-04-2013, 11:18 PM
 
Location: San Francisco, CA
15,088 posts, read 13,458,676 times
Reputation: 14266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Army Soldier View Post
No it is not a load of BS. You should be ashamed for making that false statement.
Look, let's be honest:

The military is necessary, and there are admirable characters in the institution. There are also highly-educated people in it as well.

But most of the grunts are really there simply because they do not have better options. They are not highly educated, and they're motivated by their own prospects, same as other people. And they are, of course, the ones who are intentionally expendable in the event of a conflict. Such people are necessary, and I don't begrudge them the reasons for their choices...but I can't help but ultimately feel sorry for them. I would join them if necessary - every man fills out a draft card - but I sure would not ask for it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:59 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top