Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If California is doing so great, why are all the Californians leaving in droves to ruin states like Montana, Colorado and Texas?
EDIT: You mentioned prices. But a lot of the reason for leaving is to escape the policies they voted for, only to try and get them passed in their new states. And they think they are smart.
I think a fair number of them move back because some of us make a point to make the lefty Californians feel as unwelcome as possible.
I know of a few people who have done as you complain, the most recent moved to Oregon to buy a home they could afford and live in an "open carry" state.
Others I know have generally just "cashed in" on the sale of their home and bought bigger elsewhere, just recently a couple I know sold their home on the SF peninsula, took their money and bought a home on 40 acres in Washington.
I used to work for a Fortune 100 company that used to transfer people all over the country (including me), and those coming from states like Texas and Georgia and Alabama to California were always utterly shocked and disappointed at what the cost for housing is here, wanting badly to return back to their home state where they could have a big house again.
Not that you can't have a big house or lots of land or even carry a gun in some parts of California, but if that's what is most important to you, then again..., California is probably not the best place for you.
I am just curious how conservatives who rail against all things Democrat, from stifling economic activity to stifling our very way of life, our freedoms, our hopes and dreams, just how do they reconcile the fact that California continues to do fairly well as compared to most states in most ways, now expected to outpace the economic growth of the country looking forward.
Better as well compared to even most countries of which there are less than 10 in the world with bigger economies...
How is it possible that California didn't come apart economically, morally and in every other way possible long ago? The disaster Republicans are always so concerned about when it comes to all things Democrat should have ended all forms of prosperity in California long ago, right?
Instead?
Excellent questions. I've been quite impressed with the economic turnaround since Gov. Brown was (re)elected.
See, I'm not going to let you get away with that. I said ILLEGAL immigrants. You can pretend that I did not say ILLEGAL immigrants all that you want, as the liberals love to do that, but I will correct you every. single. time.
Fair enough, guilty as charged, but in all fairness...
Liberals, this liberal anyway, simply made a mistake, and that mistake is because so many conservatives actually don't care for immigrants, especially Hispanics or from the Middle East (or of different color) whether legal or not.
Nevertheless, I did not mean to paint you with that same anti-immigrant brush nor all conservatives, though I think too many conservatives are anti-immigrant at heart in these regards, as also commonly expressed in this forum.
You don't have the wide perspective you think you have if you think parts of Oakland and parts of Houston qualify as "some of the worst" places on the planet......and I've also been all over the states and plenty of times abroad.
We getting into semantics here? Of course parts of Oakland and Houston are not as bad as some places in Somalia, but please..., let's be reasonable here, okay?
Let's just say that here in America, there are pockets of bad everywhere. Hell, I've walked into neighborhoods in San Francisco where you wonder if you'll make it through and/or how what you see is even possible in this country, let alone one of the wealthiest cities in the world.
Right, but compared to parts of Uganda..., good for you and thanks for the help with clarification! Ugg.
Huh? This isn't about dogs--it's about homeless people defecating everywhere in broad daylight! San Francisco has become notorious for allowing this.
I admit I didn't read the article, only the title (not always with as much time on my hands as I would like) and frankly I'm not inclined to read articles about poop whether dog or human...
I will say that I have walked in San Francisco more than most, still visit often, and I guess I'm lucky because I have NEVER seen anyone defecating in public, not once. Of course that doesn't mean it doesn't happen, and also of course what you see (in any city) largely depends on where in the city you may be, but "people behaving badly" is always a problem, no doubt.
Hard to deal with some of these problems, especially the homeless, especially in areas like the Bay Area where the homeless tend to find more leniency than in lots of other places.
Wrong. Good Alabamans would know that the drag queen is probably packing more then just some male anatomy and that "beat the freak" doesn't fly in shall-issue states. They should come to NY to indulge in that. You can also have serial hold ups of Dunkin Doughnuts and slash people on subways with impunity.
Some counties may have that, but lets not pretend that it's not because it is some posh destination vs the extraordinarily great policies governing the state.
A finer-grained regional analysis reveals that the main current of migration out of California in the past decade has flowed eastward across the Colorado River, reversing the storied passages of the Dust Bowl era. Southern California had about 55 percent of the state’s population in 2000 but accounted for about 65 percent of the net out-migration in the decade that followed. More than 70 percent of the state’s net migration to Texas came from California’s south.
I grew up in SoCal, and I left for NorCal for college. The first day I was in the Bay Area, I knew I was never going back...
Los Angeles has changed dramatically since the days I grew up there. I still go there often to visit family. Back when I lived there as a younger kid, you could drive that 45 miles to the beach and get there in no time. Now, you can hardly get 15 miles in 45 minutes due to some of the worst congestion/traffic known to man.
Unless you are extremely fortunate to live near the ocean and work in Los Angeles, your quality of life essentially sucks, and you had best move out or suffer the consequences. I mean it's bad.
Not sure that's reason enough for the migration from SoCal to other places, but it sure as Hell is plenty enough good reason for a lot of people, including me! Only good thing I might add is that at least the air is cleaner down there as compared to when I was growing up, the smog so bad on Summer days back then my throat would hurt and my eyes would burn. Those damn liberal environmental types, however, mandated cleaner burning fuels and other regulatory measures to reduce the pollution, and the smog is for the most part no more.
Those regulations are not "business friendly" however. I'll save the next conservative from having to point that out...
I appreciate the call for tempered rhetoric, since I'm not all that fond of such tactics having more to do with pushing agenda over "sincere dialogue," but on the other hand it isn't as if an awful lot of conservatives are not inclined to "rail" against all things Democrats represent, most certainly including California. Or maybe you are new to this forum?
Also an important measure is the educational bang for the buck and no doubt different states offer different opportunity in this regard. You can get a very good education in California and you can get a pretty bad one also depending on which part of the state you are in, which county, which school district, which high school...
Unfortunately, however, again California is faced with the difficult challenge of educating (at least attempting to educate) lots of people that are at the lower end of the economic ladder, many who can't even claim English to be their first language and/or first language spoken in the home. Texas also has the same challenge for obvious reasons. Lots of states doing better with their education dollar don't have the order of magnitude challenges in these regards like California and Texas.
Much like being a net tax contributor toward the nation's federal tax coffers, however, California is a major supplier of agricultural products, fruits and vegetables, AKA America's "bread basket." Texas too as a matter of fact.
Come drive through the farm areas and see all the Hispanics picking and packing those fruits and vegetables for you and don't forget to complain they are here and something of an educational challenge while you're at it...
I will complain every time because there's a LOT of people who need a job in CA, and those jobs could be going to citizens and those here LEGALLY. Of course the fake concern is about the price it would all cost if we had LEGAL people picking that fruit and those vegetables, but what is missing from that price tag is just how much money is spent on illegals in other aspects of daily life, (ie: E/Rs). It will even out.
There is absolutely zero reason for me to thank someone who committed a crime against this country by sneaking over here, and then continues to harm this country by taking jobs away from people here legally. And no, they are NOT "doing the jobs that Americans won't do". That tired line comes from elitist snobs who wouldn't even wash their own car if it was dirty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe
I have no problem buying or owning a gun in California, even enjoyed shooting a variety of guns up in the Gold Country with a good friend back when I was younger, at targets. I've done the same in Utah where more people seem to be into that sort of thing.
Also did some off-roading in Utah through some beautiful country that also may not be as common or popular in California, though I know where that goes on in California too.
But hey, right, California is not all things to all people...
One of the wonderful things about this country is that you can go wherever the environment suits you best. If you want to surf, California might be a good place for you. If you want to be part of a paramilitary group or enjoy where "gun culture" is more the way of life. Utah is probably your better bet.
And you have the audacity to preach to any Conservative on here when you write such (thinly vieled) insults and drama as you just did? A person interested in being able to carry a gun on them does not equal "interested in paramilitary groups". So how about you put to rest your sanctimonious arrogance and get real if you want to tell everyone that you want a "real" conversation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe
I know of a few people who have done as you complain, the most recent moved to Oregon to buy a home they could afford and live in an "open carry" state.
Others I know have generally just "cashed in" on the sale of their home and bought bigger elsewhere, just recently a couple I know sold their home on the SF peninsula, took their money and bought a home on 40 acres in Washington.
I used to work for a Fortune 100 company that used to transfer people all over the country (including me), and those coming from states like Texas and Georgia and Alabama to California were always utterly shocked and disappointed at what the cost for housing is here, wanting badly to return back to their home state where they could have a big house again.
Not that you can't have a big house or lots of land or even carry a gun in some parts of California, but if that's what is most important to you, then again..., California is probably not the best place for you.
Don't even try to fool people who have lived and live in CA. BS that CA isn't marked with gigantic houses, (way bigger than in Houston, Dallas, Plano, etc...I know, because I've lived in those places, as well). CA and FL (Miami especially) are on par with each other with oversized homes so do not even act like "if you don't want a big home, it's a sign CA isn't for you". NO.
What you are trying to spin and twist is that people come from places like TX where their money goes a LOT further and find out that CA like to overcharge, grotesquely overcharge, for the same or something of far less quality. In other words, CA thinks it's worth much more than it is, and that, again, comes from liberal arrogance. The people from TX aren't idiots, is what you're witnessing. That you try to turn that around on those from TX or GA or AL as if they are simpleton redneck idiots, (despite just how much money those people can rake in to their bank accounts in those states), is even more liberal arrogance. The snobbery that comes from liberals is gross. It's actually creepy that they feel as if money is all that makes someone "better than everyone else". The people from TX, GA, AL were shocked that anyone was dumb enough to pay those high prices on something that did not warrant that price. They wanted to return home when they realized just how snotty and idiotic the people in the coastal parts of CA can be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe
Fair enough, guilty as charged, but in all fairness...
Liberals, this liberal anyway, simply made a mistake, and that mistake is because so many conservatives actually don't care for immigrants, especially Hispanics or from the Middle East (or of different color) whether legal or not.
Nevertheless, I did not mean to paint you with that same anti-immigrant brush nor all conservatives, though I think too many conservatives are anti-immigrant at heart in these regards, as also commonly expressed in this forum.
My apologies to you personally nevertheless...
Will you EVER forgive me?
Don't even bother. You pretend to be the bigger person simply because I will come right out and say it while liberals such as yourself try to hide behind words hoping people won't understand what you're actually saying.
Here's a newsflash for you: I have lived in CA. I have lived in WA state (Seattle to be exact), and I have lived in Miami. I have heard liberal speak for a very long time. You may fool some people on here, you're not fooling me. Your posts are dripping with sarcasm stemming from your smugness as you look down on people you assume to be nothing more than plebes.
Feel free to write a post denying any such thing to try to convince others that you're "innocent"...that's liberal garbage, too. You and I both know that is exactly what you're doing.
I think Jerry Brown's "success" is a bit exaggerated. Read any economic political book and they all state that the executive (Gov, Pres, Mayor) has very little with how the economy performs.
Having said that, I think the issue of illegal immigration is a serious one in which will harm the state in the long run. We no long have the work to support a continued influx of low skilled workers. As automation continues to phase out those jobs these individuals will be a drain on our resources. This is the one issue that continues to bite democrats and why Trump was able to gain popularity. Being a life long republican, I think a lot of what Trump says is garbage but his firm stance on illegal immigration is what has the ability to sway some voters in swing states.
When talking to family in other states, I am utterly shocked at some of the policies enacted and how driven they are by religion. Government should do everything to not limit our freedoms and having arguments about what people SHOULD do shouldn't have a place about what we allow them to do (think gun rights or abortion).
I will complain every time because there's a LOT of people who need a job in CA, and those jobs could be going to citizens and those here LEGALLY. Of course the fake concern is about the price it would all cost if we had LEGAL people picking that fruit and those vegetables, but what is missing from that price tag is just how much money is spent on illegals in other aspects of daily life, (ie: E/Rs). It will even out.
There is absolutely zero reason for me to thank someone who committed a crime against this country by sneaking over here, and then continues to harm this country by taking jobs away from people here legally. And no, they are NOT "doing the jobs that Americans won't do". That tired line comes from elitist snobs who wouldn't even wash their own car if it was dirty.
And you have the audacity to preach to any Conservative on here when you write such (thinly vieled) insults and drama as you just did? A person interested in being able to carry a gun on them does not equal "interested in paramilitary groups". So how about you put to rest your sanctimonious arrogance and get real if you want to tell everyone that you want a "real" conversation.
Don't even try to fool people who have lived and live in CA. BS that CA isn't marked with gigantic houses, (way bigger than in Houston, Dallas, Plano, etc...I know, because I've lived in those places, as well). CA and FL (Miami especially) are on par with each other with oversized homes so do not even act like "if you don't want a big home, it's a sign CA isn't for you". NO.
What you are trying to spin and twist is that people come from places like TX where their money goes a LOT further and find out that CA like to overcharge, grotesquely overcharge, for the same or something of far less quality. In other words, CA thinks it's worth much more than it is, and that, again, comes from liberal arrogance. The people from TX aren't idiots, is what you're witnessing. That you try to turn that around on those from TX or GA or AL as if they are simpleton redneck idiots, (despite just how much money those people can rake in to their bank accounts in those states), is even more liberal arrogance. The snobbery that comes from liberals is gross. It's actually creepy that they feel as if money is all that makes someone "better than everyone else". The people from TX, GA, AL were shocked that anyone was dumb enough to pay those high prices on something that did not warrant that price. They wanted to return home when they realized just how snotty and idiotic the people in the coastal parts of CA can be.
Don't even bother. You pretend to be the bigger person simply because I will come right out and say it while liberals such as yourself try to hide behind words hoping people won't understand what you're actually saying.
Here's a newsflash for you: I have lived in CA. I have lived in WA state (Seattle to be exact), and I have lived in Miami. I have heard liberal speak for a very long time. You may fool some people on here, you're not fooling me. Your posts are dripping with sarcasm stemming from your smugness as you look down on people you assume to be nothing more than plebes.
Feel free to write a post denying any such thing to try to convince others that you're "innocent"...that's liberal garbage, too. You and I both know that is exactly what you're doing.
My, my, my..., you seem to have more issues than Playboy Magazine, but I have not spun or twisted anything beyond just calling 'em as I see 'em. I know I am not of like mind with people like you and of course that goes both ways, but rather than heap on all the bluster as you do, what actual data or facts have you got with regard to all these claims related to immigrants, legal or illegal? At least I owned an employment agency and actually filled thousands of these jobs, and guess what? The only ones applying for them were Hispanics. My entire staff was bi-lingual as a result. From where are you getting your notions to the contrary?
Frankly, don't bother, because I can tell we are not only with different perspective, knowledge and/or experience related to these matters, but you really don't make much sense when you make the sort of statement I've bolded for you above. California is a state, not something that "thinks." I never said there were not big homes here, they're just a lot more expensive per foot than what you can get in other states. My in-laws come visit from Utah, and they can't stop going on about that (since my mother-in-law loves to visit the Open Houses there in Utah, when she comes here to California, basically wherever she goes).
What California is worth to anyone depends entirely on demand, what people are willing to pay to get what they want, just like most things sold on the market. You have heartburn with any of that, you don't like the truth of these matters as I am explaining them, your problem is not with me.
You're just having some trouble facing reality I think...
I think Jerry Brown's "success" is a bit exaggerated. Read any economic political book and they all state that the executive (Gov, Pres, Mayor) has very little with how the economy performs.
Having said that, I think the issue of illegal immigration is a serious one in which will harm the state in the long run. We no long have the work to support a continued influx of low skilled workers. As automation continues to phase out those jobs these individuals will be a drain on our resources. This is the one issue that continues to bite democrats and why Trump was able to gain popularity. Being a life long republican, I think a lot of what Trump says is garbage but his firm stance on illegal immigration is what has the ability to sway some voters in swing states.
When talking to family in other states, I am utterly shocked at some of the policies enacted and how driven they are by religion. Government should do everything to not limit our freedoms and having arguments about what people SHOULD do shouldn't have a place about what we allow them to do (think gun rights or abortion).
Good point about what Brown really can or can't take credit for, but the real issue is as I posed in the first comment or two of this thread, not so much about Brown specifically but in terms of all the dire straights conservatives tend to assign to all things related to Democrats, leadership, philosphy, economics, public policy...
Reconciling all those conservative notions always so absolutely "doom and gloom" related to more liberal leaning with a state like California should at least cause most reasonable people to think maybe all that is Democrat is not all that bad.
Not the stuff of "ruining America" and all that sort of thing that all too many conservatives describe as Obama's sole agenda, Democrats too, liberals. Surely there is some middle ground to be had or is the ingrained bias simply too much to overcome?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
San Diego Born and raised
