Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
He's an atheist, if you can get past that part, but he's pretty fair in terms of how he deals with most subjects.
There's nothing wrong with atheism, nor is an atheist by definition a liberal. So I don't know why I'd have to get past someone being an atheist. Neither is "liberalism" "allowing someone a right to their views," since liberals are far less likely to allow people to have dissenting views. For example, it is liberals, not conservatives, who are trying to have the state sue people who disagree with climate change or to refuse to publish opinions which do not agree with it in papers. It is merely liberal propaganda that says that liberals are open-minded. In fact, liberals depend on thought control and speech control.
I think you're trying to say that a "moderate" liberal would be fine and is different from a "far left" liberal. Unfortunately, that's not the case. First of all, truly "moderate" liberals are few and far between. Second of all, most "moderate" liberals are predisposed to acceptance of "far left" liberalism. Meaning, it's like when we talk about "moderate" Muslims versus "radical" Muslims. The "moderate" Muslims are the ones who don't actively participate in radicalism and may even disagree with it, but don't do anything to stop it. The "radicals" are supposedly the crazy ones. Well, that doesn't actually help anything.
I have no problem with societal standards changing. I mind how they are changed.
For example, with homosexuality, it was as follows:
- Liberals within media aggressively pushed a pro-homosexual message. Homosexuals appeared disproportionately on television and almost universally in positive and protagonist roles. People who were not accepting of homosexuality were portrayed as criminals and evil.
- Liberals within schools began to indoctrinate students to accept homosexuality and to teach that anyone opposed to it was in the wrong.
- Meanwhile, people repeatedly defeated gay marriage at the ballot box, even in blue states. This was not reported. Instead, news stories focused solely on people "celebrating" when liberals broke the law and permitted gay marriage before the government would step in to stop it.
- Simultaneously, gays, who had never cared about getting married, pretended that it was the most important "right" that they desperately needed. They also co-opted the black civil rights movement, which offended a large segment of blacks, who also opposed gay marriage.
- Finally, liberal politicians got tired of losing referendums repeatedly and just enacted gay marriage, claiming they were "representing the will of the people" while they were defying it. The media then dutifully reported that now a majority of the country supported gay marriage and everyone was in agreement with almost nobody opposed.
- Next, liberals started trolling around every city to try to find anyone who disagreed with gay marriage, at which point they would launch lawsuits intended to bankrupt and cripple anyone who they found. In all cases, they actively avoided dozens of businesses which were happy to help with their gay weddings and in almost all cases they weren't actually intended to get married at all.
- Then, they moved to demand normalization of trans-genders, including demanding the "right" to fully funded sex changes, bathroom choice, and more lawsuits against anyone who would cause "mental anguish" by not referring to them by whatever gender they wanted.
But, yeah, that doesn't affect anyone. You're right.
I doubt there is any point in me trying to reason with you.
You are very misguided and partisan. Very rigid.
It doesn't matter that there are people out there who vehemently don't support something. If a group is pushing for a change that they want, based on an genuine inequality, and it has a following and attention outside that group, they may just get what they want. This is what's happening with gay marriage and other rights.
Do you know how many people were against desegregating schools? Against the Civil Rights Act? Women voting? Ending slavery? Should all those things have not happened either? Sometimes it takes time for certain people to accept or learn to just let things go. Sometimes it takes older generations dying off and newer, more accepting and open minded ones, coming in.
Your biased timeline means nothing. Gay people have existed since the beginning of humanity and aren't going anywhere. Being gay is nothing new, even being openly gay is nothing new because like I said, past societies found it acceptable. Societies and people change - for the better and worse. Gay rights are following the natural progression of other equality movements - now slowly so are trans rights. Whether you like it or not gay and trans people exist, and they are real and they are human. There is no reason at all to make their lives harder and outcast and ostracize them and to not give them equal rights.
Because of how society has viewed them in this country, no one WANTS to be gay or trans - even many gay and trans people themselves. It's not an easy life to live. It's very difficult for them. My lesbian friend tried to kill herself, after denying her sexuality her whole life and having boyfriends, because when she came out her own mother wouldn't accept her. The vast majority live life quietly and just want happiness and yes, equality. They don't like to draw attention to themselves and just want to live life comfortably in their own skin, whether that means letting someone who is transitioning into a woman use a women's bathroom stall (which has a door btw) or letting a lesbian couple get married at the courthouse the same way a non religious herero couple would. Chances are you've comes across gay and even trans people in your life and probably didn't even know it.
Bottom line is, it doesn't affect your life at all. People keep saying it to you because it's true. You think this is a bad argument because you know it's true. If you don't have gay or trans friends, because you don't like their lifestyles and won't associate with them, then you won't even know these things are happening. Life goes on for the majority when the minority gets equal rights.
My lesbian friend is enagaged and their wedding is set for 2018. Would my life be any different if they weren't allowed to marry and weren't getting married in 2 years? Nope. Except I'd miss a wedding. I love weddings.
If the left can't change people's minds except by indoctrinating their children for a generation, then that demonstrates how invalid their beliefs are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415
My lesbian friend is enagaged and their wedding is set for 2018. Would my life be any different if they weren't allowed to marry and weren't getting married in 2 years? Nope. Except I'd miss a wedding. I love weddings.
Neat. If they weren't married, would their lives be any different? And before you say "yes,": if so, then why are they waiting for two years?
If the left can't change people's minds except by indoctrinating their children for a generation, then that demonstrates how invalid their beliefs are.
I have news for you - I'm not part of "the left."
Bet that screws with your worldview doesn't it. Whoops.
My friends are waiting 2 years to marry because they are long distance currently in separate states while one finishes her education and the other starts her career. If they weren't getting married their lives would be very different yes - because they wouldn't be married.
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,619,501 times
Reputation: 9169
Quote:
Originally Posted by njquestions
If the left can't change people's minds except by indoctrinating their children for a generation, then that demonstrates how invalid their beliefs are.
Neat. If they weren't married, would their lives be any different? And before you say "yes,": if so, then why are they waiting for two years?
There's nothing wrong with atheism, nor is an atheist by definition a liberal. So I don't know why I'd have to get past someone being an atheist. Neither is "liberalism" "allowing someone a right to their views," since liberals are far less likely to allow people to have dissenting views. For example, it is liberals, not conservatives, who are trying to have the state sue people who disagree with climate change or to refuse to publish opinions which do not agree with it in papers. It is merely liberal propaganda that says that liberals are open-minded. In fact, liberals depend on thought control and speech control.
I think you're trying to say that a "moderate" liberal would be fine and is different from a "far left" liberal. Unfortunately, that's not the case. First of all, truly "moderate" liberals are few and far between. Second of all, most "moderate" liberals are predisposed to acceptance of "far left" liberalism. Meaning, it's like when we talk about "moderate" Muslims versus "radical" Muslims. The "moderate" Muslims are the ones who don't actively participate in radicalism and may even disagree with it, but don't do anything to stop it. The "radicals" are supposedly the crazy ones. Well, that doesn't actually help anything.
Based on your posts here you seem a bit combative... I'm gonna bow out here..... I don't expect agreement, but you're posting things that doesn't' indicate any idea of receiving data and processing it and passing some version of understanding that you indeed did hear it back to me. My comments about atheism wasn't meant to inflame or upset, but merely just to pass info to you of the man's background. You repeating it back in a semi hostile way indicates that you just wanna be a bit hostile toward others.
Good luck with that. I welcomed an honest discussion but you didn't seem to want that... fine.
What you self-identify as is not my business. I just go by reality.
Here's a lesson because you're too stuck on party lines to realize - people don't have to fit into your political molds and have your beliefs to be considered solidly on one side or the other. You don't actually live in "reality."
Here's another lesson - most Americans are actually moderate. That would be "middle." Neither solidly left or right. Meaning they have beliefs coming from both opposite sides of our political spectrum.
Here's a lesson because you're too stuck on party lines to realize - people don't have to fit into your political molds and have your beliefs to be considered solidly on one side or the other. You don't actually live in "reality."
Here's another lesson - most Americans are actually moderate. That would be "middle." Neither solidly left or right. Meaning they have beliefs coming from both opposite sides of our political spectrum.
Oh, that's interesting. You know why? I never hear it that some liberal says something liberal and then everyone goes "hey, let me inform you that people are moderate and don't agree with liberal views." They say that a lot when people discuss conservative views, however. For example, name me some liberal views which most Americans disagree with that liberals would acknowledge because they are not stuck on party lines like me. Thanks.
Oh, that's interesting. You know why? I never hear it that some liberal says something liberal and then everyone goes "hey, let me inform you that people are moderate and don't agree with liberal views." They say that a lot when people discuss conservative views, however. For example, name me some liberal views which most Americans disagree with that liberals would acknowledge because they are not stuck on party lines like me. Thanks.
What? This post doesn't even make sense. What are you trying to say here?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
