BLACK: MEN: let's talk (ethic, regular, Hispanic, versus)

[Water4Life]

Originally Posted by branh0913

There is an issue with black women choosing to reproduce with low quality black men, and then looking towards society acting like quality black men don't exist. That's a huge problem with black women. I know too many black men who have great jobs, are great leaders, and very positive. They will invariably get ignored for so low brow loser with jeans sagging and a bad attitude. I use to think this was just for low quality black women and hood rats, but I see middle class and upper middle class women falling into this.


And then we create the cycle of single parents, and women raising single boys, who grow up to be moronic due to a lack of male leadership. A lot of issues with the moderen black man comes from the single black mother. And we have single black mothers because black women are procreating with black men who have no values.

I agree that black women must do a better job of vetting, but we should not negate the realities that exist within many black communities regarding marriageable men:

A Definite Shortage of Marriageable Black Men - NYTimes.com

[Water4Life]

Lately, I've observed that a large percentage of black men that I know personally (or through family) are rather sexist. I think black men have been allowed to get away with this because much of the focus is often on racism. Therefore, because race is often considered more important than gender issues (among most black Americans), black men are rarely checked for having very misogynistic viewpoints, unless of course they grow up in non black communities. I find this very disturbing on so many levels.

I'm honestly wondering if the black men who are waging the assault and harassment against black women via social media and offline, really want black men to truly "go their own way," because I've heard a number of them advocate for black men to stop associating with black American women. Yet of course, they continue to spend hours insulting black women's hair styles (whether natural or weaved), makeup/fashion choices, dating habits, weight, levels of education, and of course, all of the negative stats and stereotypes associated w/ black women. Many of the discussions that black men are engaging in appear to be very feminine oriented. Prior to watching some of their videos on youtube and reading their statements on facebook and twitter, I never knew that so many black men (who proclaim to be heterosexual), had such a strong interest in hair and makeup choices of black women. It's all very odd indeed.

Anyhow, I'm trying to figure out if the black males who are waging this war against black women intend to date-sleep w/ each other, lead an asexual lifestyle or date inter-racially? I imagine that the plan is for the later, but black men who are residing in predominately low income black communities with very little resources will find it rather difficult to date non black women, unless of course she is from the same socioeconomic background and has an interest in black men.

Based on the stats, black men have the highest divorce rates of all men, and when you examine the IR divorce rate specifically, it's sky high for black men and white women, as well as, black men paired with Latinas. I'm mentioning this because at a certain point, each and every person really has to look at themselves and stop blaming others for their individual failures.

I just read a story in the L.A. times about a black man shooting his black wife (while she was teaching at a school). Apparently, he killed two of his ex wife's students, while shooting at her. San Bernardino Shooting: Man Called Wife His 'Angel' | Time.com

The hatred against black women is growing and so are the murder rates. More black women need to take pro-active measures to safeguard their health and overall well-being.

[Chance and Change]

I agree that a degree has nothing to do with the need for 'HONEST RESPECTFUL COMMUNICATION" WITHIN A RELATIONSHIP.
This is true for People, REGARDLESS OF SKIN COLOR.

Everything one has written is as much ethical real as it is "universally real" among the races. Society of many ethnic groups have these 'classification they have about women, be it Asian, European, American, African, Muslim and any other. Thus so.... it does not matter who is or who is not sporting and claiming a college degree.

There is no Relationship Management Course included in the University Programming, that programming is about categories of service and profit functions. Most of the social sciences are directed toward the psychology of what it takes to invoke "service and profit mental frames within individuals".

As to people. Everyone has a choice, at least in American, as to who is to be their mate. If people let not their eyes and their erogenous urges drive their choices, they might find, it is better that they observe and communicate, to find out whom another is.

As to historical things as discussed in my previous comment. those things set habit patterns that reverbrate on all levels, among all categories of ethnicities, as well as within the the gender spectrum of male and female as well...

TODAY, we are aware of such and much. Thus so, out task is to change the paradigm... To do that we must EACH, focus on our SPIRITUAL TRUTH, which supports our individual self constitution.
THEREFORE, we can't allow an urge of "horny-ness" to drive us, not can we rely on the temp and tease of sexual visual manipulations, and we can't allow the fancy fictions of material matters and social fictions of status and style to be the summary of our choices.

We ALL, Regardless of Color, IN THIS DAY AND AGE, AND WITH THE AWARENESS OF THE HISTORY THAT CAME BEFORE US. We TODAY, have to use what GOD gave us, and that is the ability to see with more than our eyes, to think with more than our fictions engaged, and the consider what is and what will meet and measure with our Spiritual Selves.

As to bad relations, that is not something that is select and privately exclusive to any ethnicity of people. There is if one sat down and did the study, as much Relationship Dissension in White Society as there is in Black Society, therefore , don't let published drama, make you think otherwise. The base volume of ethnic difference in this nations itself, tells that the number of "bad relations is likely higher in the white society, than in the black society, by the FACT OF BASIC POPULATION NUMBERS.

There is a history of bad relations dating back long before America was even a nation proclaimed to be the Current America we know today. Orphanages, Mental Health Issues, and every other malady that impacts human beings has been and is part of the history of mankind.

There is today, many variants of what is mental illness.. We have a culture today, where a mass of people claim and are in states of depressions, some for many reason, and not to exclude, the want of material things as a self measure, want of the emulation and mimicking of imagery of another or others, and the vanity of "who has the most toy's", or who can present images that promote the lure of attention, about the face, the arse, the legs, the breast, and the size of this or that, and all kind of things the human beings use to try and create some exclusiveness. And when all those games are said and done, EVERY HUMAN BEING WHO IS HEALTHY, has ALL THE SAME GENERIC BODY PARTS.
People in this life and this world, NEED > Food, Water and Shelter, and then there is the Pro-creationary Need for Mating to Exist of the Population of Humanity is thus driven to extinction.

Mankind should learn from "all species" that exist, because we are the higher being, and being so, may well imply that we have similar or familiar characteristic with the variations of habits that are of existence in the spectrum of living species.

What we have is a human ability to communicate and think, to factor and discern, and the awareness of what is good and of good will, and what is not good and not of goodwill... for the society of many to live without being at a constant war among the idividual human beings.

First people should figure out what is a relations, and how to communicability develop one... and they may come to find... we are EXACTLY what God Made Us To Be ..... "HELP MATES" !!!!! We were that long before money was created and long before material fancy became out fiction of focus and our greeds drives to possess.

The average person, has more in their homes than they need or use, it is basically filled with a multitude of variations of our "wants"... and we distress ourselves about our wants. When fact is, what we want today, may not even be relevant to us tomorrow, and we decide that we want something different and then make contentions within our relations about it and about how to get it. When fact is, both may not even have the same level of concern about what is wanted. Thus so, COMMUNICATION is NECESSARY and Truth and Honesty is foundation.

But as people, we get pissed off, because someone does not demonstrate the same level of urgency about a want, as we demonstrate about a want... and as people we will fight, and tell the other they don't care about us, simply because they don't want some particular thing with the same drive and determination as we do. But in relationships... We Forget what a HELP MATE is, we EXPECT the other to perform for us, to get what we want... When the base obligation of a HELP MATE is to care for the basic's of what each need in common. Which is FOOD, Water, and Shelter and Care for their Offspring's ... Everything else is a luxury and a convenience, because at one time in life much of the material stuff, and the expectations of wants did not exist, because the material things at one time did not exist.

We are so wrapped up in silliness now, until if one needs Transportation, it is no longer about Transportation, it becomes about what "image and what status model", and people will get pissed off with each other, because they can't get the most expensive model.. So they can park it at a job for others to look at, or drive down the street trying to create envy from others, as if they thrive on the status, more than the fact that they have "transportation" that affords them some conveniences.

Some of the people should visit Foreign Countries, so they can see the madness of their own minds and ways.

Now for the fact that commercialism affords us means to have employment, then we should simply work to get what we want, and if and as our HELP MATE can assist, simply "APPRECIATE IT" NOT DEMAND IT.

Our Problems have a great many elements that is connected to WHAT WE EXPECT, often times far more than WHAT WE RESPECT.

COMMUNICATION SHOULD PRECEDE DECLARATIONS OF DEVOTION AND COMMITMENTS. ( If we are as wise as we make claims of being. But, Fact is, We learn about ourselves from our mistakes and often time blame others for what we did not take time to learn for ourselves first, by PATIENCE, Honest communications and "learning to grow into loving each other", rather than hustling by every means that infatuation consumes us into its fictions, and when facts unfold, we become shocked, at what we did not consider to consider.

There are many other factors involved when people want to look at specific ethnic issues, both from a current situation to a historical situations. One can't just pluck something out of the big picture, and claim it is the whole picture.

We live in a system of society, that has a role image for man and one for woman, from historical commonality, of the man as this or that, and of his role as bread winner, dominant one, sex initiator, and all these things and more. We have a changed society, where it is not as it once was, even post slavery or in the 1960's and 1970's because woman's role in society also changed.
There was a time, Men did not report to women as heads in the workforce, and today, especially for black women, it is easier for them to get chosen for a leadership position than it is for a black male, and that goes all the way back to post segregation.
When Quota's were common, a black woman filled "two quota's" at once, that was one of female, and one of minority, and black women were not considered a threat nor a competitor for or unto white man. In the dynamics of things, this has meaning in the social sphere.
Many women can go to the office job and see the lives of white men, and how and what they can afford to give and do for their women, and when she comes home, often to men, who are not in the office work, and if he is, he is no in a lead role, nor does he make the income of the white male, nor can he do for the black woman, what the white man can do for the white woman.
This economic disparity has existed during slavery, during segregation, and today in a more integrated society, it still exist.
So... there is more to consider than the fanciful emotions and expectations people have an place upon each other, there is the dynamics of a society, that is still struggling from what happen long before any of us were even concept in our great, great,great great grandparents and beyond.
Yet, we have some delusion, because the Law said, that Discrimination is Illegal, that Racist Divisiveness that lasted over centuries has suddenly completely vanished. Compound that, with the dwindling jobs in America, then it becomes now a desperate chase that even supersedes in some ways the racist things, it becomes about people in a desperate pursit of employment, as simply an individual, and compound that, with a society that now, has women competeting right along side of men.

The dynamic changed .... the early 1940's and before illusions of the stay at home woman, and the bread winning man does not apply as being a standard. some can and some can't play those roles.. Mostly today, it is both people out working... and COMMUNICATION IS MORE NECESSARY TODAY THAN EVER BEFORE.

As well as its time society dispense with the old format that a man has to buy and give a woman this or that, pay for expense, and cover the basics, IT NOW IS A MATTER, that people have to SHARE all the responsibility of mating and relating, and that includes both has to be motivated initiators in the bedroom, from THEIR OWN Self motivation, not as some reward or as some prize or some gambit.... But, people have not evolved beyond that, they still use sex as a weapon, a tool, a gambit organ, and anything else they can use it for.

[skins_fan82]

Originally Posted by Water4Life

Lately, I've observed that a large percentage of black men that I know personally (or through family) are rather sexist. I think black men have been allowed to get away with this because much of the focus is often on racism. Therefore black men are rarely checked for having very misogynistic viewpoints, unless of course they grow up in non black communities. I find it very disturbing on so many levels.

I've not seen this at all. I'm black. About half my close friends are black. I go to an all black barbershop, I play on an over-30 softball team that's about half black. I see/hear no sexism at all. I mean sure, "guy talk" and all...about "babes" LOL. But men of all races do that. Hell, women of all races do that, too.

But absolutely nothing in terms of flat out sexism that would need to be addressed or deemed inappropriate.

[ButterBrownBiscuit]

What is your definition of sexism and how do you think it is manifest in male/female relationships?

Originally Posted by skins_fan82

I've not seen this at all. I'm black. About half my close friends are black. I go to an all black barbershop, I play on an over-30 softball team that's about half black. I see/hear no sexism at all. I mean sure, "guy talk" and all...about "babes" LOL. But men of all races do that. Hell, women of all races do that, too.

But absolutely nothing in terms of flat out sexism that would need to be addressed or deemed inappropriate.

[8won6]

Originally Posted by ButterBrownBiscuit

#1 - I'm not sure what you mean by the term "reality cues."

#2 - There was a poster who implied that black women were attacking Kendrick because he expressed an appreciation for natural women. I'm simply clarifying that is not the reason he was attacked - at least based upon what I read in my Twitter feed.

#3 - Perhaps you didn't realize it, but your post comes across as very condescending and insulting. It is a perfect example of what black women mean when we say black men are not receptive to listening to our opinions and perspectives. In the future in you are unable to engage me in a respectful manner, please feel free to keep scrolling.

what i read about Kendrick was that he was attacked because he said he like natural women and women were talking about "don't tell us how to be". Which is why it came off a a bit of fake outrage because a black rapper finally starts talking something other than ratchet and it was still met with anger.

[Water4Life]

Originally Posted by skins_fan82

I've not seen this at all. I'm black. About half my close friends are black. I go to an all black barbershop, I play on an over-30 softball team that's about half black. I see/hear no sexism at all. I mean sure, "guy talk" and all...about "babes" LOL. But men of all races do that. Hell, women of all races do that, too.

But absolutely nothing in terms of flat out sexism that would need to be addressed or deemed inappropriate.

I've noticed that a number of black guys don't seem to have a problem with referring to black women as "black b&%ches," "hos," "thots," "ankles," "skanks," "c&!ts," "hair hatted hooligan," "BT-100s," or by other very derogatory and misogynistic terms on facebook, twitter, youtube, snap chat and in un-moderated public forums. More often than not, the vitriol is unwarranted and unprovoked.

To better address this issue, a number of black women have decided to form our own anti-defamation organization, to legally protect ourselves from those who seek to destroy us.

[residinghere2007]

Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk

And you don't know any black men different from all that?

No, not really.

I know a few men who are different but most men are like this IMO.

As I stated on the other thread, I don't expect black men to have no complaints about black women because I know I have my prejudices about men in general and one of them is that men are very lazy in the home and are less responsible and are more immature than women in general (that is more than one but those are my main observations of men as a woman having grown up in a male dominated family. I was the only girl in my household and I have 3 brothers and also a male cousin who I consider my brother who I grew up with. I also mostly have nephews and only 2 nieces).

I am racking my brain to think of a man I know, even those in my own family who are not like this. My husband would probably be the "best" of the bunch only because he doesn't like sports or video games, we have never had a system, plus he is older than me and is mid-40s so isn't into games and such like younger men are today. But he is like older men who will hang out with their guy friends every day and leave me to do everything if I didn't speak to him about it. It is like men rarely think of people in their households. I also do have to tell him to do things or he will put off things that need to be done by a certain time (like cooking dinner so our youngest can go to bed on time) until he is done with his leisure TV watching lol. So small things that I know about him because we've been together so long that I "just know" that if he is cooking dinner we won't eat until 10pm and I'll have to get my daughter a sandwich or something so she can go to bed on time.

My younger brothers and cousins....ugh....they all have kids and they are what people would call "good fathers." They hang out with their kids and take physical care of them but they keep the video game on ALL DAY and they will ignore the kids most of the day and play games. A lot of men, no matter ethnicity are like this. I told one of them that he should take his kids to the park or library and he said they can stay in the house while he plays his game. He doesn't pay much attention to them at all all day. But luckily he at least does feed them on a schedule. Their mother works an opposite shift of my brother (they are married BTW) and when she is with them they go outside, she reads to them, makes them healthier food, they go to the library and other free activities in the area. It is a huge contrast between mother and father.

To be a "good mother/wife" the lady has to do everything nearly perfectly in our society. To be a "good father/husband" a man just has to be present and not hitting the wife/kids. That is why so much gets blamed on the mother/women - men expect us to do everything and if something goes wrong we are to blame even though we may have busted our a$$es for years doing everything and they sat on the couch watching TV or playing games and got mucho kuddos because they were in the house with the kids.

[skins_fan82]

Originally Posted by Water4Life

To better address this issue, a number of black women have decided to form our own anti-defamation organization, to legally protect ourselves from those who seek to destroy us.

Sounds like a really good cause. That's awesome. Honestly. My wife would be on board with that for sure.

But me personally I haven't come across anything terrible.

Sure, there are a few ignorant young 20-somethings that sometimes refer to women as the b-word, but they're kids. I'm 34. People I consider friends and associates don't talk that way. Women call each other "thots" more than guys do, at least from what I see on social media.

I mean, our president was caught on tape saying he grabs women by the ***** and yet tens of millions of people still voted for him I love and respect women, to include my wife and my mother. I personally would not hang out with people that talked the way Trump did. "Locker room talk" my ass. Trump is a misogynistic pig.

[8won6]

Originally Posted by skins_fan82

I've not seen this at all. I'm black. About half my close friends are black. I go to an all black barbershop, I play on an over-30 softball team that's about half black. I see/hear no sexism at all. I mean sure, "guy talk" and all...about "babes" LOL. But men of all races do that. Hell, women of all races do that, too.

But absolutely nothing in terms of flat out sexism that would need to be addressed or deemed inappropriate.

See, people don't want to hear this reality. The vast majority of black men aren't sitting around talking about black women in either good or bad ways all the time. It's usually just about physical looks, but like you said people of all races do that.

And like i said, the source of this false "black are sexist" stuff comes mostly from those few dudes on YT. And i know they the women here know who i'm talking about. Internet talking heads would have you thinking black men AND women sit around talking about the other gender all day when that's not the case. They would have you think black men and women are at war, when that's not the case. They would have you thinking black men AND women are interracially dating at crazy high rates and it's not the case.

And at the end of the day, many black men will tell you that the sexist, misogynistic, thuggish black men ironically are the ones that alot of women tend to be attracted to. As another poster eluded to, let's not alot of black women aren't consciously picking the bad guys because they are exciting. That IS a thing.