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See, I'm young. Though I'm a junkie in terms of politics, and bleed the essence of Carolina, Helms was basically before my time. It appears as though he was a hack of the highest order; a true personification of the good ol' boy politics which characterized, and still does to a certain extent, the south for much of its history. With that in mind, there's a great article at Pajamasmedia detailing the stubborn SOB. Pajamas Media » Jesse Helms 1921-2008
Most would agree with the assessment that hopefully his politics die with him. Personally, I can forgive everything but the bigoted, anti-gay, anti-black attitude he carryed with him. What a dirtbag.
Don't preach about class, sweetie. Racist, anti-gay bigots don't deserve such a consideration.
I am not your sweetie, I am not racist, and I will let God deal with the gays. As far as hatred is concerned, you have the market cornered. My opinion is just as important as yours and I have just as much right to speak it as you do. My son thinks I am liberal, so you are wrong there too. Actually my son has a saying, "When they get to the point of calling names, you know you have won."
Jesse Helms is a lot more than you are giving him credit for being; otherwise he would not have been reelected more than 5 times. He did a lot for all the people of North Carolina. Talking bad about someone after they are dead is like kicking someone when they cannot defend themselves. People with class don't do that.
The people of North Carolina kept Jesse Helms in the U. S. Senate for thirty years. That tells me that a majority of the people in the state liked the way he did his job.
It also tells me that NC is a racist state. At least 70% of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCN
It is sad to see so many people on one thread that have absolutely no class.
As his political campaign put it, Helm's "one of us". Anyone that isn't white isn't "one of us". Therefore, non-white = no class. Unless you consider 'outcast' a class?
I'll give him the respect you feel he deserves if and only IF you (and others of like mind) bestow the same respect on Louis Farrakhan (Jew-hater) and Jeremiah Wright (alleged white-hater). These men have done much good (probably as much as Helms himself) for the community, but people judge them solely on their bigotry. Yet you and others of like mind esteemed Helms as some God-damn uber-patriot, outweighing his accomplishments over his bigotry. As if the latter is but a minuscule blemish, a proud natural (inherent) right.
Apply the same standards to everyone, regardless of their bigotry. Not just to those that are "one of us". I'll gladly honor white racists if you honor black racists, Latino racists, Asian racists, etc.. on the same level Helms' people are honoring him.
I am not your sweetie, I am not racist, and I will let God deal with the gays. As far as hatred is concerned, you have the market cornered. My opinion is just as important as yours and I have just as much right to speak it as you do. My son thinks I am liberal, so you are wrong there too. Actually my son has a saying, "When they get to the point of calling names, you know you have won.
I didn't say you were my sweetie, sweetie. Don't confuse the two.
You are requesting that people show respect for someone who demonstrated no such respect toward many others on the basis of his own hatred and bigotry. That, I'm sorry, I cannot do. His death does not make that an entitlement.
Perhaps others here feel differently. I, on the other hand, wholeheartedly say "good riddance."
I didn't say you were my sweetie, sweetie. Don't confuse the two.
You are requesting that people show respect for someone who demonstrated no such respect toward many others on the basis of his own hatred and bigotry. That, I'm sorry, I cannot do. His death does not make that an entitlement.
Perhaps others here feel differently. I, on the other hand, wholeheartedly say "good riddance."
What you have said about Jesse Helms and your disrespectful address to me is more of a reflection of yourself then it is of us. Just because you say it does not make it true. When you point a finger at someone else, you have two pointing at them and three pointing back at you.
If you will read some of the other threads, you will find that I have said that I like Preacher Wright and admire his honesty. He deserves respect for being in the pulpit of such a growing church. I am sure he has acomplished much. Obama would do well to be as honest, but he is more interested in being elected than he is in being honest. I do wish we had more honest politicans.
People sometimes are a product of their upbringing and experiences in life. We all do and say things that we should not from time to time, but it is our whole life that makes us who we are. I don't understand how you can have so much hatred for someone you evidently do not even know.
What you have said about Jesse Helms and your disrespectful address to me is more of a reflection of yourself then it is of us. Just because you say it does not make it true. When you point a finger at someone else, you have two pointing at them and three pointing back at you.
If you will read some of the other threads, you will find that I have said that I like Preacher Wright and admire his honesty. He deserves respect for being in the pulpit of such a growing church. I am sure he has acomplished much. Obama would do well to be as honest, but he is more interested in being elected than he is in being honest. I do wish we had more honest politicans.
People sometimes are a product of their upbringing and experiences in life. We all do and say things that we should not from time to time, but it is our whole life that makes us who we are. I don't understand how you can have so much hatred for someone you evidently do not even know.
""""but it is our whole life that makes us who we are."""
Yes and Helms WHOLE life was one of bigotry and nastiness.
A N D we can dislike someone WITHOUT hating them. Because you defend him does that mean you love him???
What you have said about Jesse Helms and your disrespectful address to me is more of a reflection of yourself then it is of us. Just because you say it does not make it true. When you point a finger at someone else, you have two pointing at them and three pointing back at you.
If you will read some of the other threads, you will find that I have said that I like Preacher Wright and admire his honesty. He deserves respect for being in the pulpit of such a growing church. I am sure he has acomplished much. Obama would do well to be as honest, but he is more interested in being elected than he is in being honest. I do wish we had more honest politicans.
People sometimes are a product of their upbringing and experiences in life. We all do and say things that we should not from time to time, but it is our whole life that makes us who we are. I don't understand how you can have so much hatred for someone you evidently do not even know.
You are taking offense where none was intended when I addressed you. I'm sorry.
Again, I will not make excuses for that man and place the blame on his upbringing, as if that actually reduces his culpability. He had decades to change his perspective, to gain knowledge and awareness, and he chose to resolutely defend his disgusting views until his death. I have no misgivings about stating that that is where he belongs, and where his impact will have the greatest positive effect.
That's not hatred. It's an acknowledgment of what never should have been. He's a relic of the past, and an emblem of what not to repeat in our nation's turbulent history.
The people of North Carolina kept Jesse Helms in the U. S. Senate for thirty years. That tells me that a majority of the people in the state liked the way he did his job.
A very slim majority. He never won this state by more than 55 percent, and usually by running a campaign that played on racial fears and brought the racists out of the woodwork to put him over the top. Jesse Helms got some transportation funding passed for the state, so we can thank him for good roads, but that just can't outweigh the bile he spewed and the dark cloud of ignorance that hung over our state for half-a-century because of his attacks.
My opinion is just as important as yours and I have just as much right to speak it as you do.
Exactly! That includes the right to be critical of others where justified.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCN
I don't understand how you can have so much hatred for someone you evidently do not even know.
Tell that to Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, Keith Obermann, Rosie O'Donnell, Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter.
I apologize for the tone but not for the content. He had it coming, albeit posthumously. It's extremely appalling that none of the media even mention his racists beliefs (or at the very least being a controversial figure) when reporting his passing. Now why hasn't the OP made any more comments to this thread. He hasn't explained why Helms was a "great patriot".
A very slim majority. He never won this state by more than 55 percent, and usually by running a campaign that played on racial fears and brought the racists out of the woodwork to put him over the top. Jesse Helms got some transportation funding passed for the state, so we can thank him for good roads, but that just can't outweigh the bile he spewed and the dark cloud of ignorance that hung over our state for half-a-century because of his attacks.
Glad that someone responded about the good that Helms did for his state. So often these discussions digress into petty attacks. If there is not much to say positively about a man who served in our nation's senate [so he represented all Americans] then pro-Helms people should not be offended by the negative remarks.
Is the criticism of Jesse Helms untrue? If not, then it is important that the man be judged by his actions. And it appears that many have quite strong opinions about how Jesse Helms represented the worse in people rather than the opposite.
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