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Old 01-25-2017, 07:30 PM
 
5,011 posts, read 11,114,413 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mco65 View Post

Stats only work for those who were not actually alive or WATCHING football back then!!!

I was watching back then.. so i know who and what the 49ers were back then.. great on d. .sure but DEAD in the water without Joe Montana....

I was also watching in 2001.. the Patriots could have won that SB with 4 or 5 different QBs.. sorry but thats how i saw it..
I was there for the Pats in 2001...season ticket holder....went to every home game and have seen every Pats game since the 1976 season

You are SO wrong about the Pats being able to win the SB with 4 or 5 different QB's...Brady doesn't get near enough credit for how well he played that season...

 
Old 01-25-2017, 07:43 PM
 
5,011 posts, read 11,114,413 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by echo7tango View Post
I'm not saying Bledsoe leads them to the Super Bowl if he starts all 16 regular season games and the 2 playoff games. They needed Brady to get there, definitely. But once in the Super Bowl, if Bledsoe starts, Belichick manages the play calling and Bledsoe is good enough that the Pats win that game.

In game 2 of the season, when Bledsoe went down, Brady was only 5 for 10 for 46 yards and the Pats lost to the Jets, 10-3.

In the AFC Championship game when Brady went down, Bledsoe played the second half well enough on offense for them to win. Brady could have gone back into the game, but Belichick didn't bring him in.
Again, sorry, you have no idea what you are talking about and you clearly didn't watch enough Drew Bledsoe...ANY Pats fan who was around in 2001 and saw Bledsoe play regularly will tell you Drew would have been just good enough to lose....it is a guarantee he would thrown 1 if not more killer picks because thats what he always did...

By the way, game 2 of the season in 2001, first game back after 9-11....I was there....

Bledsoe didn't come out of the game until the last drive...

Brady played exactly 2 minutes of that game started on the New England 25 and got them to the Jets 26 where the drive stalled down by 7...so yeah 5-10 46 yards on ONE DRIVE....that loss was Bledsoe's

It was only the SECOND drive all game to reach Jets territory and in the previous drive Drew threw a red zone pick...of course

As for the AFC Championship, I was happy to see Drew contribute, but more revisionist history here

Bledsoe led ONE TD scoring drive in the first half when he first came in for Brady

He was COMPLETELY ineffective after that drive in the second half
 
Old 01-25-2017, 08:30 PM
 
Location: Southern Colorado
3,682 posts, read 1,821,063 times
Reputation: 4724
Brady and team will probably win the Superbowl. After that, it will harder to argue against his logical placement. Interesting that deflategate has apparently been completely forgotten.
 
Old 01-25-2017, 10:14 PM
 
Location: SF Giants Nation 2010◆2012◆2014
1,047 posts, read 596,119 times
Reputation: 727
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedevilz View Post
Again, sorry, you have no idea what you are talking about and you clearly didn't watch enough Drew Bledsoe...ANY Pats fan who was around in 2001 and saw Bledsoe play regularly will tell you Drew would have been just good enough to lose....it is a guarantee he would thrown 1 if not more killer picks because thats what he always did...

By the way, game 2 of the season in 2001, first game back after 9-11....I was there....

Bledsoe didn't come out of the game until the last drive...

Brady played exactly 2 minutes of that game started on the New England 25 and got them to the Jets 26 where the drive stalled down by 7...so yeah 5-10 46 yards on ONE DRIVE....that loss was Bledsoe's

It was only the SECOND drive all game to reach Jets territory and in the previous drive Drew threw a red zone pick...of course

As for the AFC Championship, I was happy to see Drew contribute, but more revisionist history here

Bledsoe led ONE TD scoring drive in the first half when he first came in for Brady

He was COMPLETELY ineffective after that drive in the second half
Cool, and no I didn't watch a lot of Bledsoe. So I'll go with your points, but I will hold onto one point where Belichick, if he's such a great coach (which I believe he is), would have (should have) been able to find a way to win with Bledsoe, reducing the game plan such that he becomes a Trent Dilfer type, merely managing the game and having the #1 rule of not losing the game, not throwing the critical pick, not putting him into situations where he has to decide to throw in traffic or not.

But maybe Belichick was already doing that, and maybe Bledsoe was making those crucial mistakes. I didn't follow the Pats close enough to know if that was happening. Maybe you did, and maybe you know. You may be right.
 
Old 01-26-2017, 02:36 AM
 
465 posts, read 300,500 times
Reputation: 956
Huge Niners fan! Even I concede to Brady. If there was ever a Brady Montana matchup. The Niners would crush the Patriots.
 
Old 01-26-2017, 04:44 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,742 posts, read 4,269,701 times
Reputation: 4725
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedevilz View Post
I was there for the Pats in 2001...season ticket holder....went to every home game and have seen every Pats game since the 1976 season

You are SO wrong about the Pats being able to win the SB with 4 or 5 different QB's...Brady doesn't get near enough credit for how well he played that season...
I got no problem taking your word for it..
But i will say this, Brady gets more credit than any other player in the league not named Rodgers... he deserves it and he gets it.. Aint nobody gonna cry at Bradys retirement screaming he was underated..
 
Old 01-26-2017, 04:58 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,742 posts, read 4,269,701 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Labonte18 View Post
Gibbs won 3 Super Bowls with 3 different QBs.

Hell.. In '87 he basically put Williams in for the playoffs.

I think you can certainly look at him and say it was the system, not the QB.

Belichick,.. The way he's plugged and played various players.. That one you lean more towards the system.. But Brady has never played in the NFL for anyone else.. So, it's really hard to say.. Plus, then you factor in that Belichick didn't do well with his system without Brady..

I'd love to see Tom Brady playing for.. The Jets.. Or Green Bay.. Green Bay is better.. Just to see how he would do in a different system.
I know that Gibbs fact, my BIL reminds me often.. you know i left it out on purpose..
The BEST thing about Joe Gibbs.. he now owns a race team..

In honesty, Gibbs is WAY UNDERRATED, he never gets mentioned among the great coaches of all time yet, like you said, he used 3 different QBs to win him a RING.. very impressive.. nobody else has done that.. He's a HOFer in the NFL and NASCAR (eventually).. simply a winner no matter what he does... VERY IMPRESSIVE but i like him a helluva lot more in NASCAR than i did the NFL!

I think a lot of us would like to see Brady on another team but its not gonna happen.. he's gonna retire playing in New England... the question is when.. does he retire in two weeks after winning his record 5th SB or does he push the envelope and not retire until his skills erode? I don't think the latter but he looks like he can play another 3 years at this level.. Of course, with some players, you don't get that gradual erosion..the wheels just fall off, but with players like Brady who are such a high level, he could lose a lot of zip and still win a lot of games (ie. Peyton Manning). I think a part of him wants to set the bar so high (championships) that it becomes unreachable for a long long time. I don't think there is a lot of vanity in him, he doesn't care if he throws for 350 and 3Tds or 200 and no TDs as long as they win.. so my guess is, as long as he thinks he can win, the Pats can win.. he coming back.. so you know he's back at least one more year!
 
Old 01-26-2017, 07:44 AM
 
Location: Greensboro, NC
5,776 posts, read 4,277,571 times
Reputation: 3839
Quote:
Originally Posted by mco65 View Post
I know that Gibbs fact, my BIL reminds me often.. you know i left it out on purpose..
The BEST thing about Joe Gibbs.. he now owns a race team..

In honesty, Gibbs is WAY UNDERRATED, he never gets mentioned among the great coaches of all time yet, like you said, he used 3 different QBs to win him a RING.. very impressive.. nobody else has done that.. He's a HOFer in the NFL and NASCAR (eventually).. simply a winner no matter what he does... VERY IMPRESSIVE but i like him a helluva lot more in NASCAR than i did the NFL!

I think a lot of us would like to see Brady on another team but its not gonna happen.. he's gonna retire playing in New England... the question is when.. does he retire in two weeks after winning his record 5th SB or does he push the envelope and not retire until his skills erode? I don't think the latter but he looks like he can play another 3 years at this level.. Of course, with some players, you don't get that gradual erosion..the wheels just fall off, but with players like Brady who are such a high level, he could lose a lot of zip and still win a lot of games (ie. Peyton Manning). I think a part of him wants to set the bar so high (championships) that it becomes unreachable for a long long time. I don't think there is a lot of vanity in him, he doesn't care if he throws for 350 and 3Tds or 200 and no TDs as long as they win.. so my guess is, as long as he thinks he can win, the Pats can win.. he coming back.. so you know he's back at least one more year!
Joe Gibbs is way underrated. I remember when he came back to coaching in 2004, during that second tenure, the whole question was, will that second tenure ruin his legacy? Yes, Gibbs wasn't as successful as he was the first time around, but for a coach to come back after being away for 12 years, have to deal with Snyder and Cerrato in the front office, and having an aging dinosaur like Mary Brunnell as your Quarterback, I thought Gibbs was pretty impressive to get that team into the playoffs twice. Of course he had two of the worst seasons in his coaching career during his tenure, but again, when you have Vinny Cerrato as your GM, it's a wild card as to what type of players you wind up with.

Still, Gibbs was very impressive in his first tenure. You had teams like the 49ers and Dolphins who had franchise, future Hall of Famers, as quarterbacks, yet the Redskins never really had what you considered BIG NAME players on the team other than Darrell Green and John Riggins. Yet, he could get that team to play championship caliber football.
 
Old 01-26-2017, 08:18 AM
 
Location: SF Giants Nation 2010◆2012◆2014
1,047 posts, read 596,119 times
Reputation: 727
Quote:
Originally Posted by skinsguy37 View Post
Joe Gibbs is way underrated. I remember when he came back to coaching in 2004, during that second tenure, the whole question was, will that second tenure ruin his legacy? Yes, Gibbs wasn't as successful as he was the first time around, but for a coach to come back after being away for 12 years, have to deal with Snyder and Cerrato in the front office, and having an aging dinosaur like Mary Brunnell as your Quarterback, I thought Gibbs was pretty impressive to get that team into the playoffs twice. Of course he had two of the worst seasons in his coaching career during his tenure, but again, when you have Vinny Cerrato as your GM, it's a wild card as to what type of players you wind up with.

Still, Gibbs was very impressive in his first tenure. You had teams like the 49ers and Dolphins who had franchise, future Hall of Famers, as quarterbacks, yet the Redskins never really had what you considered BIG NAME players on the team other than Darrell Green and John Riggins. Yet, he could get that team to play championship caliber football.
Agree with you both. Gibbs is very underrated. Like Noll is, too.

As for big names there was also Art Monk, and Joe Theismann (it's THEEZ-man, remember!).
 
Old 01-26-2017, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,742 posts, read 4,269,701 times
Reputation: 4725
getting way off track here.. maybe someone should start a THREAD on the NFL COACHING GOAT>>>> Jonathan??

Brady goat.. One thing that really impresses me about Brady is he is not an ego maniac.. maybe he is but i don't get that impression of him. to me, he comes off as someone who will do anything to win.... and could give a rats butt about how many TDs or yards he had thrown for.

Case being, the first half of his career he was never a big stat guy.. he had good numbers but was always overshadowed by the likes of Manning and Kurt Warner... ONce the got Randy Moss in 2007, his numbers exploded. it was like they had an epiphany.. We can win without a great running game.. We just need BRADY... perhaps the league as a whole shifted.. but even after Moss was gone, Bradys number remained near the top of the leader board despite never having an Elite (if you will) WR.. That alone is most impressive because you can argue brady is great but he has Belichick and vice versa but you can't argue brady is great but he has this ALL WORLD WR or RB.. because NO HE DOESN'T!!!! he makes so so WRs look all world better than anyone i ever saw play.. its kinda spooky..
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