No one wants to date Child Free By Choice, either (Chinese, partner)

[neutrino78x]

Originally Posted by psichick

The human race is going to continue regardless of how many of us are CFBC or can't have kids. Why? Because there's so many that believe it's our humanly job to procreate.

Well, it's mainly because it is our biological instinct to reproduce. But yes, it IS our moral obligation to remain in existence as a species, because we are the stewards of the Earth. That is just the fact of our existence. We are the dominant species on the planet, and the only one having that combination of consciousness, self-awareness and intelligence that makes us human.

Maybe numbers will drop, but let's be real, that would be a good thing. This planet is overpopulated as it is.

That's antinatalism. You think humanity should not be here. Well, we are here, and we must continue, because we find ourselves in the position of being stewards of life on Earth.

And no, the planet is not overpoulated by man. If all of humanity were in one place with the same density as New York City, we would only take up the area of Texas. We just need to adopt green technology.

[neutrino78x]

Originally Posted by psichick

And I don't like being told "God said we need to have children, so you have to have children". Why does it matter what people say to you?

It has nothing to do with God. We are the stewards of the Earth. Whether or not there is a God.

[DennyCrane]

Originally Posted by TabulaRasa

In all honesty, I CANNOT IMAGINE CARING if others at large "support my choice" to have kids, and I also can't imagine caring whether or not they "supported my choice" to NOT have kids.

Who gives a rat's ass if people who ARE NOT ME, and WHOM I DO NOT CARE ONE WHIT ABOUT do or do not support my personal choices re: procreating? As long as they're not attempting to make legislative rulings on them, why should I care? At all? I don't have to justify squat. Nobody does. People who feel desperately that they do are just looking for validation of their choices (often via putting down the choices of others). "Oh, look! I win at life choices, you lose!" Come on, people.

This is the point I've been trying to make. Why do people care if I don't want kids? And why do they care how I choose to label myself? IMO, the problem here isn't with the people who call themselves child-free. The problem lies with how everyone else chooses to interpret that label. They act as though the childfree crowd is criticizing people who have or want kids. If you're that sensitive to how someone labels him or herself, I think that says more about you than it does about them. If I were a parent, I would NOT have a problem with someone else calling himself childfree. I would NOT interpret it as a criticism of my decision to have children. I'd accept that, for whatever reason, they didn't want kids. I think too many parents are overly defensive, as if they feel the need to justify their decision to have kids. Personally, I think there are a lot of people out there who shouldn't have kids, not because of overpopulation, but just because they'd make lousy parents. But people are free to do what they want. So even if two despicable human beings like Kanye and Kim K. want to reproduce, I won't tell them not to. But please, stop acting like the childfree label is a slam against you. How self-absorbed are these people to think a label someone else uses is actually about them. Parents, here's a newsflash. Some of us don't care about you or what you do with our lives. So why do you care how we label ourselves?

[psichick]

Originally Posted by neutrino78x

Well, we all have an instinctive drive to reproduce. So it has to be something in your conscious mind that makes you ignore that instinct. Either you think you would not be a good parent for emotional reasons or financial reasons. If you thought you would be a good parent then you'd be interested in being one.

I can relate; right now I could not afford to be a parent, and emotionally I am not in a good place to be a father.

At least I'm honest about it.

No, actually we don't all have the instinctive drive to reproduce. Ticking clock? What's that? I've never had the desire to want a child or reproduce. I have sex, because I enjoy it and that is the only reason. Getting pregnant was an afterthought (still is) and a problem that needed fixing (still would be). Dolphins have sex purely for pleasure also. I wonder if some of them are CFBC. Haha.

From what I'm told, by parents, I'd be a good mom. Maybe a bit overprotective, but still, a good mom. But I'll never know which is fine by me.

I guess I don't understand your all or nothing way of thinking. It honestly baffles my brain.

[neutrino78x]

Originally Posted by DennyCrane

This is the point I've been trying to make. Why do people care if I don't want kids? And why do they care how I choose to label myself?

They don't.

Well, unless you try to make your opinion the law, then we would care. But other than that no, we don't care.

IMO, the problem here isn't with the people who call themselves child-free. The problem lies with how everyone else chooses to interpret that label. They act as though the childfree crowd is criticizing people who have or want kids.

In most cases they are. They will say it is selfish to have kids or that the Earth is overpopulated etc. Those are variations on antinatalism or "ChildFree Philosophy".

[psichick]

Originally Posted by neutrino78x

Well, it's mainly because it is our biological instinct to reproduce. But yes, it IS our moral obligation to remain in existence as a species, because we are the stewards of the Earth. That is just the fact of our existence. We are the dominant species on the planet, and the only one having that combination of consciousness, self-awareness and intelligence that makes us human.



That's antinatalism. You think humanity should not be here. Well, we are here, and we must continue, because we find ourselves in the position of being stewards of life on Earth.

And no, the planet is not overpoulated by man. If all of humanity were in one place with the same density as New York City, we would only take up the area of Texas. We just need to adopt green technology.

I never said humanity shouldn't be here. That's your problem right there. You take what someone says and you turn it into what you WANT to hear. No wonder why you think everyone who is CFBC is an antinatalist.

I said we're overpopulated. We're using up resources we don't have. We're killing the planet. And planets can and do die. I think we should have less people on this earth or at least spread them out more. But that's humans for you, thinking we're the best and nothing bad will ever happen to us. As stewards of the planet, overpopulation is a problem.

[neutrino78x]

Originally Posted by psichick

No, actually we don't all have the instinctive drive to reproduce. Ticking clock? What's that? I've never had the desire to want a child or reproduce. I have sex, because I enjoy it and that is the only reason. Getting pregnant was an afterthought (still is) and a problem that needed fixing (still would be). Dolphins have sex purely for pleasure also. I wonder if some of them are CFBC. Haha.

I think you should be more honest with yourself. All living things have the instinct to reproduce. You are alive therefore you have that instinct. One expression of that instinct is the desire to have sex. Your body causes you to have that desire because, as a living thing, it would like to reproduce.

Now, it is clear that it is your opinion that people should not reproduce and you do not wish to reproduce because you think the planet is overpopulated or whatever. But that conscious choice is overriding the instinct which must be there because you are a living being.

Like I said I don't mind that you think you wouldn't be a good parent or whatever. But this CFBC nonsense is just people not wanting to face argument. Just say you don't want kids. You don't need an acronym or something. That just makes it obviously political. The only way you would get in an argument is if you start saying no one should have kids because "the planet is overpopulated". Why would someone saying you might change your mind when you're older make you so uncomfortable that you need to join a support group? By "you" I mean the collective "you", that is to say, people who join these support groups.

I'm honest about it. If I tell somebody I have never kids, and they ask me why not, I say, "well, girls have never liked me back, and I don't think I would make a good parent right now nor did I feel I was in a good position to have kids when I was younger." No need for a support group or an acronym or whatever. I did want children when I was younger, at various times. But it wouldn't be a good idea right now. That's all.

[neutrino78x]

Originally Posted by psichick

No wonder why you think everyone who is CFBC is an antinatalist. [...]

I said we're overpopulated. We're using up resources we don't have. We're killing the planet. And planets can and do die. I think we should have less people on this earth or at least spread them out more.

In one sentence you say you are not an antinatalist and then in the next paragraph you confirm that you are one.

As stewards of the planet, overpopulation is a problem.

We could double our population and we still would not reach the point of overpopulation. We just need to do it in a more environmentally responsible manner. Using green power generation and green transportation technology, etc.

And yes we are the stewards of the planet. Saying that doesn't mean we are currently doing a good job. But it is the fact of our existence. We may very well be the first intelligent species to evolve anywhere in the universe, which would make us even more important. But at the very least, we are responsible for the Earth and the life on it.

[DennyCrane]

Originally Posted by neutrino78x

They don't.

Well, unless you try to make your opinion the law, then we would care. But other than that no, we don't care.

Actually they do care. This thread is proof of that. Childfree folks like myself aren't trying to pass laws limiting how many kids people can have or who can have them. And yet despite that, there are people on this thread who seem to be offended by the mere fact that someone would describe himself as childfree. So I'll ask again. Why do people care what label I or people like me apply to ourselves?

Originally Posted by neutrino78x

In most cases they are. They will say it is selfish to have kids or that the Earth is overpopulated etc. Those are variations on antinatalism or "ChildFree Philosophy".

And both of those statements are true. Having children is a fundamentally selfish act. People have kids to make them, meaning the parents, happy. And yes, the Earth is overpopulated. But as a person who doesn't want children, I've never offered up either of these as reasons why I don't want kids nor has anyone else I've ever met who didn't want kids. Sounds to me like your generalizing about us childfree folks based on what a subset of us say.

Originally Posted by neutrino78x

I think you should be more honest with yourself. All living things have the instinct to reproduce. You are alive therefore you have that instinct. One expression of that instinct is the desire to have sex. Your body causes you to have that desire because, as a living thing, it would like to reproduce.

I think you should be more honest about what drives human behavior. Yes, we evolved to enjoy sex so that we'd be more likely to have it and therefore help perpetuate the species. But people in their 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s still have sex even though they can't reproduce. So clearly, our sex drive isn't just about reproduction.

Originally Posted by neutrino78x

But this CFBC nonsense is just people not wanting to face argument. Just say you don't want kids. You don't need an acronym or something. That just makes it obviously political. The only way you would get in an argument is if you start saying no one should have kids because "the planet is overpopulated". Why would someone saying you might change your mind when you're older make you so uncomfortable that you need to join a support group?

No, the real nonsense comes from the folks who react to a label that someone chooses to apply to him or herself. It's a label. Why do you care what I call myself? And yes, I have told people I don't want kids. Problem is they can't leave it that. It's them, not me, who turns it into an argument. As for telling me that I might change my mind, it's not that it makes me uncomfortable. It's that it offends me that they feel the need to say it. Why can't they just accept that I don't want kids? This is the equivalent of a Christian telling me that I'll someday change my mind about the existence of God. You talk about making things political. You talk about starting an argument. Well guess who's making it political. Guess who's starting the argument. It's the person who can't accept my decision to not have children. It's the person who thinks it's their job to challenge me and convince me I'm wrong. I don't describe myself as childfree. But maybe I should use that label just to shut people up so they'll stop asking me when I'll have kids. Oh wait. This thread proves that a label doesn't shut up anyone. It only encourages them to get in your face even more.

[mizzile]

OP, I know exactly what you mean. My advice is to be up front about the no kids early on so you don't waste your time. There are lots of great child free people out there! Just don't waste any time with someone who isn't.