No one wants to date Child Free By Choice, either (how to, gay)

[neutrino78x]

Originally Posted by wolf39us

Yeah, all that, or because they don't want them regardless of their feelings of how good their parenting will be.

Well, that wouldn't make much sense, because all living things have an instinct to reproduce. So you would have an actual reason that makes you wish not to have children.

For example, in my case, right now I have financial and logistic issues that prevent me from having a relationship, and the same issues would prevent me from raising a child. That's a logical reason to resist the natural urge to reproduce.

So if you're in your 20s and a struggling student or whatever, that would obviously be a logical reason to desire not to have children at that time.

Claiming that the Earth is overpopulated is a reason also, although it isn't a good one because the Earth is not, in fact, overpopulated. But at least it's a reason.

[wolf39us]

Originally Posted by neutrino78x

Well, that wouldn't make much sense, because all living things have an instinct to reproduce. So you would have an actual reason that makes you wish not to have children.

For example, in my case, right now I have financial and logistic issues that prevent me from having a relationship, and the same issues would prevent me from raising a child. That's a logical reason to resist the natural urge to reproduce.

So if you're in your 20s and a struggling student or whatever, that would obviously be a logical reason to desire not to have children at that time.

Claiming that the Earth is overpopulated is a reason also, although it isn't a good one because the Earth is not, in fact, overpopulated. But at least it's a reason.

My reason is that I simply don't want them because I have no DESIRE to have them. None, nada, ziltch.

I got a vasectomy when I was 21 so that I would NOT have any "mishaps" in my years to come or any oopses. Why? Because I DON'T want any, period!

[timberline742]

The problem is most of the people financially, emotionally and intellectually that are most fit to have children are those that don't want to have any.

And yet we have more people that never studied biology commenting on biology...

[neutrino78x]

Originally Posted by wolf39us

My reason is that I simply don't want them because I have no DESIRE to have them. None, nada, ziltch.

Well, all living things have an instinct to reproduce. The conscious mind of a human can override that,obviously you would have a reason for wishing to override it. You may not have conscious awareness of the specific reason why you feel that way, but there must be something. It could be a weird chemical imbalance, like what happens with clinical depression. Enough clinical depression will cause someone to override their natural instinct to live. So it stands to reason that some other kind of chemical imbalance could cause you to wish to override your natural instinct to reproduce.

I got a vasectomy when I was 21 so that I would NOT have any "mishaps" in my years to come or any oopses.

Yeah, I've seen you say that before. I am disappointed in the medical professionals who allowed you to do that. You might regret that decision in 20 years. I would argue that someone should have to be at least 40 to have such an operation.

Besides, it is easy to prevent unwanted pregnancy. Use a condom every time, or just don't have sex. No vasectomy needed. My chances of accidental pregnancy right now are basically zero.

[wolf39us]

Originally Posted by neutrino78x

Well, all living things have an instinct to reproduce. The conscious mind of a human can override that,obviously you would have a reason for wishing to override it. You may not have conscious awareness of the specific reason why you feel that way, but there must be something. It could be a weird chemical imbalance, like what happens with clinical depression. Enough clinical depression will cause someone to override their natural instinct to live. So it stands to reason that some other kind of chemical imbalance could cause you to wish to override your natural instinct to reproduce.



Yeah, I've seen you say that before. I am disappointed in the medical professionals who allowed you to do that. You might regret that decision in 20 years. I would argue that someone should have to be at least 40 to have such an operation.

Besides, it is easy to prevent unwanted pregnancy. Use a condom every time, or just don't have sex. No vasectomy needed. My chances of accidental pregnancy right now are basically zero.

So in order for you to accept that I simply don't want children, you have to put it in your head that there is something medically wrong with me? Wow, stay classy!

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by neutrino78x

Besides, it is easy to prevent unwanted pregnancy. Use a condom every time, or just don't have sex. No vasectomy needed. My chances of accidental pregnancy right now are basically zero.

Yeah, that's not happening with 95% of us. Crazy talk.

[AtkinsonDan]

Originally Posted by neutrino78x

Well, that wouldn't make much sense, because all living things have an instinct to reproduce. So you would have an actual reason that makes you wish not to have children.

On one hand you keep harping on the fact that human beings are the only intelligent life form on earth and we need to use that to be stewards of everything else. Then you go and claim that we are slaves to our reproductive instinct. Intelligence is not required for reproduction. Even the most simplistic animal life forms reproduce without possessing intelligence. So what are human being supposed to follow their instinct or their intelligence? I chose to use my intelligence and go through the metaphorical doors that said intelligence opens.

Originally Posted by timberline742

The problem is most of the people financially, emotionally and intellectually that are most fit to have children are those that don't want to have any.

Intelligence plus opportunity provides the ability and allure to do something more interesting than purely instinctive behavior.

[neutrino78x]

Originally Posted by AtkinsonDan

On one hand you keep harping on the fact that human beings are the only intelligent life form on earth and we need to use that to be stewards of everything else.

We don't use it to be stewards...

We ARE the stewards. As far as know, we are the only intelligent beings in the observable universe. So that makes us the stewards of the Earth. There's no choice there, it's just fact. It is a fact which brings with it certain moral responsibilities, such as not causing a nuclear war or otherwise becoming extinct through our choices.

Any intelligent aliens out there would be the stewards of their respective planets.

Then you go and claim that we are slaves to our reproductive instinct.

No, I said we can choose to override it. Choice implies a reason for said choice, though.

Humans obviously have a dual nature, because we have a body and we have a mind which is a separate phenomenon.

So what are human being supposed to follow their instinct or their intelligence?

Either one, depending on the situation. Most of us would follow our instinct to reproduce, in the absence of a good reason to do otherwise. Just as we would follow our instinct to breathe, drink, eat, eliminate waste from our body, remain alive, etc., in the absence of a good reason to do otherwise.

[neutrino78x]

Originally Posted by wolf39us

So in order for you to accept that I simply don't want children, you have to put it in your head that there is something medically wrong with me? Wow, stay classy!

It doesn't have to be that, but obviously there is a reason that your conscious mind is overriding your reproductive instinct.

We know what my reasons are. You must have reasons also, whether you are consciously aware of them or not.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by neutrino78x

As far as know, we are the only intelligent beings in the observable universe. So that makes us the stewards of the Earth. There's no choice there, it's just fact. It is a fact which brings with it certain moral responsibilities, such as not causing a nuclear war or otherwise becoming extinct through our choices.

This is not a fact. It is your opinion. It is a completely anthropocentric opinion.

Not even under the human definition of intelligence (which is tenuous) can we really say that we're the only intelligent species on this planet.

Originally Posted by neutrino78x

It doesn't have to be that, but obviously there is a reason that your conscious mind is overriding your reproductive instinct.

We know what my reasons are. You must have reasons also, whether you are consciously aware of them or not.

You've not studied animal behavior / zoology have you? It's not accurate to say that every individual animal of every species has a drive or attempts to reproduce. There are individual animals in populations that don't reproduce (of course), but some of them don't attempt to reproduce either. Invidiual salmon/sturgeon that don't attempt to return to their birth streams to spawn. Individual male warblers that don't call to attract mates. Etc. This drive does not exist in every single specimen out there. Some species have individuals that practice far more complex systems where huge portions of the individuals either cannot, or just do not, mate at all and pass on their genes in other ways (kin selection).