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Relationships can be hard work even for stable, compatible people in the sense that in order for them to succeed you have to work against your human nature and NOT put yourself first all the time.
You have to consider another person when making decisions, and over time many people forget that.
I believe what you are describing ultimately falls under one of OP's bullet points.
Great post OP. I always find it annoying when people speak of and give an advice on relationships assuming that romantic relationships are always some sort of disadvantage.
Its like, people always tell me not to look for easy ways. But no one ever explains why I should seek out the hard ones.
I've actually studied a lot of psychology and sociology. You would find what I know about relationships pretty staggering. I probably know more than you.
What I've learned is people don't like to own up to their true motivations. For instance, a person will rarely say "I'm in a relationship because I'm insecure and afraid of being alone" or "I'm in a relationship for the lifestyle and financial benefits" or "I'm in a relationship to live up to a certain social, religious or family image". That's too dark. But its often the truth. Not to say some people are not truly in love. But those people are not as numerous as we all want to believe.
Relationship motivations are a mixed bag of positive motivations and dark motivations. People only like admitting to the positive ones.
The people who get irritated by the questions I ask are usually the people with the darkest motivations. Motivations they may not even want to admit to themselves. No question about relationships or how they work should be upsetting when your motivations are pure.
When I ask questions.. I'm seeking to learn people's motivations. People who are at peace with their motivations give the most direct and drama-free answers. Those who are NOT at peace with their motivations get irritated with me and seek to change the subject or paint me as dysfunctional for asking the question.
Hope that answers all your questions.
Sure - security (emotional, physical, financial) is a big reason to be in a relationship. It's not too dark for me or MANY people to admit so don't think you've stumbled upon anything new. Just a few generations ago those used to be the ONLY reasons people were in relationships so some people have moved a bit past that.
People have needs and if a relationship doesn't help meet them then people find other ways - including being completely self-reliant or looking to family or friends. Again, not news at all.
If you don't want to be with someone who is unaware and unevolved then find someone who meets your darkest needs...or don't. How is ANY of this a revelation?
Its like, people always tell me not to look for easy ways. But no one ever explains why I should seek out the hard ones.
You've been repped! Because you nailed it. Everybody and their brother says that easy is "bad" and hard is "good". But nobody cares to explain why, at least other than ideology.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanMarlton
I believe what you are describing ultimately falls under one of OP's bullet points.
Great post OP. I always find it annoying when people speak of and give an advice on relationships assuming that romantic relationships are always some sort of disadvantage.
Its like, people always tell me not to look for easy ways. But no one ever explains why I should seek out the hard ones.
The answer to me is easy on this. It applies to most of life. Should I choose the easy college, or the more difficult one I got into? Obviously the more difficult one, because I will get more out of it (learn more/accomplish more/be better prepared for next steps). Do I take the job that pays the same that I can do blindfolded, or the one that will challenge me more and push me? Also obvious answer to me. I will learn more and grow more and feel more accomplished with the more challenging one.
I have found my more challenging relationships to be similar. I grow more, I think more, I interact more and its more rewarding.
Relationships are not always "easy" any more than life is always "easy". When you entwine your life with someone else's, you take on their burdens and pain as well as their joys and successes. I have close friends, I am very close with my mom. But I've never owned property with these people, or made career choices based on their situations. I've never moved countries to be with them. I've never made a decision to never have any other friends or mother. it's a completely different relationship.
I suspect the OP's original premise is about a VERY different kind of romantic relationship than I am used to (not since I was a lot younger, anyway).
The answer to me is easy on this. It applies to most of life. Should I choose the easy college, or the more difficult one I got into? Obviously the more difficult one, because I will get more out of it (learn more/accomplish more/be better prepared for next steps). Do I take the job that pays the same that I can do blindfolded, or the one that will challenge me more and push me? Also obvious answer to me. I will learn more and grow more and feel more accomplished with the more challenging one.
I have found my more challenging relationships to be similar. I grow more, I think more, I interact more and its more rewarding.
I think you missed my deeper philosophical satire in that statement.
But as far highlighted, that was never the case for me. I had difficult relationships and I did not get anything beneficial out of them. Just frustration and waste of time.
I try not to be that guy, but sometimes I am. I can be cracking jokes and taking things lightly, when suddenly a comment is made that fails (at least in my purview) to consider another side -- and I'm almost compelled to discuss it.
Nothing about it is ill-intended, but yes, an intensity exists.
It's a thing I'm trying to work on, because I've learned that a process that feels instantaneous for me, and thus "easy," isn't that way for everyone. Correlations I've drawn are tedious, or even difficult for some people -- not that they're stupid, or even less intelligent; simply that our minds don't work the same way.
I'm really glad you posted this. Good food for thought.
Agree. While I'm definitely not one to avoid intense, deep conversation, I find it's important to remember in everyday friendships and romantic relationships that there is a time and a place for lightheartedness.
To me, "difficult" relationships are ones where you're always working hard, because working hard is the only way to prevent the relationship from falling apart. If the connection isn't easy and natural, but requires a lot to keep it going, odds are, you might be forcing something that's just not a good fit. Core compatibilities should, in many ways, make most day-to-day interactions unfold with relative ease. If it is always a slog, you're probably in a relationship that is fundamentally troubled.
Psst! MinivanDriver, hey, MillennialUrbanist has told us many times he isn't trying to do relationships anymore, healthy or otherwise...at least not romantic ones. It's actually why I dig the guy. There is this glimmer of honesty in how he is making choices. He feels, that he is able to do healthy platonic friendships, and so he limits himself to that. He looks at life, says "this is what happy life looks like to me" and he works to do exactly that. It does not include romance. That's fine!
The problem is in the negative judgments and how he applies that to people around him. Lots of (often false) assumptions there. I feel he'd be happier if he let go of worrying about and judging how and why others do relationships, and focus on how great his life is because he's chosen his own path. Feed the empowering stuff, ditch the rest. All of that "it has to be this way" and "why must it be that way" junk...no, nothing has to be any way. People make choices. Sometimes they auto-pilot along blindly following whatever script society handed them. Sometimes they use bad programming and make bad choices. Sometimes they take the time to work through their own heads, and break the patterns. But at some point, ain't nobody behind that steering wheel, but you.
If friendship with women feels safe and rewarding, and that's what M.U. is doing, why need to go further and say, "since I've seen romance be a trainwreck in case studies A, B, C, D, that means that it always is, always must be, and always would be, so I reject women and judge every man who tries to have a relationship as an unenlightened, blue-pilled slave." What? Dude. No. Let people choose their paths. Cut 'em a little slack and respect that their choices aren't your choices, and that's ok. That's all.
If friendship with women feels safe and rewarding, and that's what M.U. is doing, why need to go further and say, "since I've seen romance be a trainwreck in case studies A, B, C, D, that means that it always is, always must be, and always would be, so I reject women and judge every man who tries to have a relationship as an unenlightened, blue-pilled slave." What? Dude. No. Let people choose their paths. Cut 'em a little slack and respect that their choices aren't your choices, and that's ok. That's all.
But I wonder if he's being a bit disingenuous. Can someone who identifies with a group that believes that relationships with women are soul-crushing and miserable and that women in relationships want nothing more than to control men actually respect women enough to have a truly sincere platonic relationship with them? You can't be in the KKK and also insist that your Jewish doctor is great.
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Because you nailed it. Everybody and their brother says that easy is "bad" and hard is "good". But nobody cares to explain why, at least other than ideology.
