Why can't I find a "good guy?" (attraction, conversation, vs)
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OK but in these situations, you are showing a woman photos and asking them to evaluate guys based on photos. Did you give them other criteria? Did they get to meet any of these men in person? Read stuff they wrote or watch videos of them talking, get any feel at all for who they were? No? Then you stomp your foot that they judged based on looks. In the utter absence of any other information.
Actually, the quote about heels is an actual quote from a friend who went out with a guy a couple of inches taller than her.
And if a woman says she doesn't care about looks, and rejects a guy on the basis of a picture (and accepts others on the basis of pictures), then yeah, I think we can safely conclude that she indeed is judging men based on their looks. To answer your question, yes, I presented them with guys who are well-groomed good guys with good careers and for most of them the answer was "nah." The answer was "Yes!" for the ones who are attractive.
For some of the women I know, they are very candid about the fact they want a handsome man, so it takes the guesswork out of things.
Absolutely nothing wrong with that. I just think it's funny that you often don't get into the heart of matters until you really press them on details.
This type of woman is more common than many people think. Way more common, IMO. I have friends I never knew thought this way until years later when we started talking more openly to each other about dating. My reaction after hearing their lists was very similar to Steve Harvey's.
Those two women frankly are morons, especially the first one (We only heard a couple items from the 2nd one but they too were dumb).
And Steve was going in the right direction - exactly what are *they* 'bringing to the table', aside from their stupid lists?
Too bad he didn't ask the question... the answers would have been interesting.
Actually, the quote about heels is an actual quote from a friend who went out with a guy a couple of inches taller than her.
And if a woman says she doesn't care about looks, and rejects a guy on the basis of a picture (and accepts others on the basis of pictures), then yeah, I think we can safely conclude that she indeed is judging men based on their looks. To answer your question, yes, I presented them with guys who are well-groomed good guys with good careers and for most of them the answer was "nah." The answer was "Yes!" for the ones who are attractive.
For some of the women I know, they are very candid about the fact they want a handsome man, so it takes the guesswork out of things.
Absolutely nothing wrong with that. I just think it's funny that you often don't get into the heart of matters until you really press them on details.
When I met my husband through a personals ad, we had communicated for at least a month before actually meeting in person. He could've looked like Quasimodo by that point. I wanted to meet this guy who I enjoyed communicating with who was funny, and decent, and interesting, who had so much in common with me, etc. Truly...I didn't care what he looked like.
And yet people continue to meet, date, couple, and even have children. No shortage of that with the people I am friends with, my coworkers, their kids and nephews/nieces. Because, math is not how people connect, have chemistry, and fall in love and make relationships work.
People who put up "conditions" or " requirements" that shrink a pool to where it's an impossibility to meet them, aren't trying to meet people. They're trying to avoid connecting with people. It's a common form of self protection from emotional pain.
Yep. Show me someone who is complaining about not being able to find someone and I'll show you someone who isn't considering that what they're doing is the problem. Maybe it's the circles in which they run, the kind of people they turn down, the rarefied criteria they have. Maybe they won't pluck themselves off the sofa or away from Netflix, won't go to a party, or won't step outside the comfort zone.
But there's always a reason, and it ain't the world. Because people find rewarding relationships every single day.
Actually, the quote about heels is an actual quote from a friend who went out with a guy a couple of inches taller than her.
And if a woman says she doesn't care about looks, and rejects a guy on the basis of a picture (and accepts others on the basis of pictures), then yeah, I think we can safely conclude that she indeed is judging men based on their looks. To answer your question, yes, I presented them with guys who are well-groomed good guys with good careers and for most of them the answer was "nah." The answer was "Yes!" for the ones who are attractive.
For some of the women I know, they are very candid about the fact they want a handsome man, so it takes the guesswork out of things.
Absolutely nothing wrong with that. I just think it's funny that you often don't get into the heart of matters until you really press them on details.
I've heard the thing about heels, too, and I didn't refute that.
That's just another kind of woman who is nothing like me, because I never wear heels, plenty of women don't. But some do, and some care about having a man who is taller than they are when they wear them. Whatever! Some women out there get with men of rarified social strata that their families will approve of. Some women who are into fitness would only date a man who is also into fitness. Some vegans will only date vegans. I did not vote for any of these people to represent me. None of us did.
But I've been willing to go on dates with men that I never saw a photo of. And I'm a lot more likely to turn a man down for being too "good looking" (even by my own standards) than too ugly, in fact. There are relatively few men whose basic looks, not considering what they're communicating with clothing and context in pics, is bad enough for me to rule them out instantly. Mostly if there's a dealbreaker there, they are smart enough to hide it in their photos anyways...like the man with gnarly horrorshow teeth who did not smile and show them in any of his photos. I don't care that much about baldness but a lot of balding men wear hats in their pictures. /shrug. But the guys who are young and "pretty" looking...again, even by my own standards... I dunno, it's like, I am not a diva and I don't want to date one. I might enjoy the sight of goth dudes in eyeliner, but they put more effort into makeup than I do. They would have been a match for me when I was a kid, but not in my 30s (when I was dating) or my 40s, looking for a serious adult.
I'm not trying to say that I represent all women either, but I AM trying to get across to you that there is a legitimate variety of thinking and priorities and desires among women in the world. It's not a thing of, "all women are alike and those who say they're not like that are lying" which seems to be your position.
It's a ridiculous mindset, but you're free to cling to it if you like, it's a free country. Ain't nobody stoppin' you.
I've heard the thing about heels, too, and I didn't refute that.
That's just another kind of woman who is nothing like me, because I never wear heels, plenty of women don't. But some do, and some care about having a man who is taller than they are when they wear them. Whatever! Some women out there get with men of rarified social strata that their families will approve of. Some women who are into fitness would only date a man who is also into fitness. Some vegans will only date vegans. I did not vote for any of these people to represent me. None of us did.
But I've been willing to go on dates with men that I never saw a photo of. And I'm a lot more likely to turn a man down for being too "good looking" (even by my own standards) than too ugly, in fact. There are relatively few men whose basic looks, not considering what they're communicating with clothing and context in pics, is bad enough for me to rule them out instantly. Mostly if there's a dealbreaker there, they are smart enough to hide it in their photos anyways...like the man with gnarly horrorshow teeth who did not smile and show them in any of his photos. I don't care that much about baldness but a lot of balding men wear hats in their pictures. /shrug. But the guys who are young and "pretty" looking...again, even by my own standards... I dunno, it's like, I am not a diva and I don't want to date one. I might enjoy the sight of goth dudes in eyeliner, but they put more effort into makeup than I do. They would have been a match for me when I was a kid, but not in my 30s (when I was dating) or my 40s, looking for a serious adult.
I'm not trying to say that I represent all women either, but I AM trying to get across to you that there is a legitimate variety of thinking and priorities and desires among women in the world. It's not a thing of, "all women are alike and those who say they're not like that are lying" which seems to be your position.
It's a ridiculous mindset, but you're free to cling to it if you like, it's a free country. Ain't nobody stoppin' you.
I don’t know why some men refuse to understand attraction. Is it just easier to focus outward than to be more self aware? Definitely not productive.
You can hold up a picture and say “here’s an attractive guy” and I can say “no he isn’t”. The room will be divided in some ratio of yes vs no.
It's sometimes hard to know what some women mean when they're talking about a "good guy" because of course everyone wants someone intelligent, hard-working, honest, loyal, caring, brave, fun-loving, humorous, etc. It's often tough to determine what's *really* animating the decisions people are making until you put a real-life person in front of them.
"I'm 5'8 and I like to wear heels, sooooooo....it's going to be a no"
"I make $80,000 per year. It's not that I won't date a man making less but I'm afraid he'll be intimidated by my success."
"He doesn't have to be a model or anything." (Then you show her several of your male FB friends and she says no to all of them except for the small handful that are objectively attractive)
"I don't really care about looks like that. It's personality all day, every day" (same as above)
i always love how every womans ex-boyfriend broke up with her becuz he was intimidated by her; and, every man left their previous girlfrend becuz she was crazy.
ego: its never becuz they just werent a good match for each other.
I don’t know why some men refuse to understand attraction. Is it just easier to focus outward than to be more self aware? Definitely not productive.
You can hold up a picture and say “here’s an attractive guy” and I can say “no he isn’t”. The room will be divided in some ratio of yes vs no.
I agree with this point, attractiveness can be fairly subjective. But it is more than that.
I also think how women evaluate men's appearances is very different. I want to emphasize a point Sonic made here, but didn't make strongly enough. Even when you ask women to specifically rate guys on their attractiveness, that rating is informed by women inferring things into who this guy's character is and then evaluating both his attractiveness and their impression of who this guy's character combined. Women don't seperate the two the way guys tend to (where a guy can both think a woman is really annoying but still hot - ie Emily Ratajkowski). So you can be a guy who might otherwise appear to other men to be attractive, but if this women don't like this guy's political views, she will still think of him as ugly. Strong emotional feelings about who a guy is, bleed into how women percieve a given man's attractiveness for women in a way that they don't seem to do for men.
Which again is part of Rbccl's larger point that some men don't understand attraction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
Though... I am one who insists (really, I insist) that I don't judge based on looks but I would 100% rule out some guys based on photos...because said photos were not mugshots. They had some context in the photos from which I inferred something about who they were.
......
Was I judging their "looks?" Not really, no. I was inferring information about who they are, from the context they presented in their pictures. Because...is this crazy? Am I wrong?...if you use something as your main profile photo, and it's got something in it that says something, that must be something meaningful to you right? I mean, if that's not what guys are thinking when choosing a photo, maybe they should consider it. Of course there are women who are into all of that stuff! Hopefully those guys find one.
Where with guys it may not really matter what a woman writes in her dating profile at all, if she looks good, these guys will give chase. Women pretty much all read the dating profile.
I agree with this point, attractiveness can be fairly subjective. But it is more than that.
I also think how women evaluate men's appearances is very different. I want to emphasize a point Sonic made here, but didn't make strongly enough. Even when you ask women to specifically rate guys on their attractiveness, that rating is informed by women inferring things into who this guy's character is and then evaluating both his attractiveness and their impression of who this guy's character combined. Women don't seperate the two the way guys tend to (where a guy can both think a woman is really annoying but still hot - ie Emily Ratajkowski). So you can be a guy who might otherwise appear to other men to be attractive, but if this women don't like this guy's political views, she will still think of him as ugly. Strong emotional feelings about who a guy is, bleed into how women percieve a given man's attractiveness for women in a way that they don't seem to do for men.
Which again is part of Rbccl's larger point that some men don't understand attraction.
Where with guys it may not really matter what a woman writes in her dating profile at all, if she looks good, these guys will give chase. Women pretty much all read the dating profile.
I sure as heck did. Unless, as I said, I could spot what looked like a dealbreaker right there in the photo (pot leaf hats/shirts, that was a frequent one!) I even sent a message to a guy I had ruled out because he was one of those too young/too pretty types, just to tell him how impressed I was with his well written profile. I was like, "you're too young for me, so this isn't me trying to get a date, I just want you to know...you're doing this right man, your profile is awesome, witty, totally well done." We can all use a compliment now and then, right? He tried to suggest that his age should not be a concern...but I knew better.
Later on, he became (100% coincidentally) an intern at my work. And later still, in yet another coincidence, dated a friend of mine, and I found out more... He is a broke young musician. Again, I was a serious adult in the market for another serious adult, so it wasn't gonna work out. That's not really even about the money, specifically, but our life paths, lifestyles, priorities, stability. It would have felt less like an equal partnership and more like a mom/teenager dynamic...and I already had two actual teenagers to finish raising.
Where with guys it may not really matter what a woman writes in her dating profile at all, if she looks good, these guys will give chase. Women pretty much all read the dating profile.
Which is why men are more likely to complain that the woman doesn’t look like her picture. Women take many pictures, pick the best ones and some (a lot!) use filters. Then men complain about the filters.
They ask me to send another picture right now. Just to make sure. I don’t want to, my pictures are recent with no filters, and I’m not suspicious of their picture, so too bad. I’m not hiding anything, but I don’t like to be ordered around, either.
But ! I don’t care nearly as much about looks, so which one of us has a better chance of meeting someone? Me. And no, every guy doesn’t look exactly like his picture either -but that’s to be expected in real life, we don’t post our worst pictures.
*Pls insert “some” not “all”, where appropriate.
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