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The main thing I wanted in terms of a man's employment, was a lot more about STABILITY.
I can deal with anything from minimum wage to big bucks, as long as it is stable and reliable. If I know what number to plug into a spreadsheet every month, and it isn't gonna just up and poof unexpectedly and plunge the household into chaos and uncertainty about the future... We're alright.
And that is a reasonable way to think, that's why it's better to have a partner who loves or atleast likes his job even if it pays crap, because they are more likely to keep it, as apposed to someone who hates their job or is stressed often in their field but makes a ton of money, as those people eventually burn out, or develop health problems later in life.
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Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
Learned that one the hard way, though. With someone who would often unexpectedly quit or get fired, and have periods of unemployment that might be weeks, months, or even a year or two during which I just had to "figure it out" between jobs. Mind you, when he was employed, he almost always was earning a higher paycheck than I was at the same point in time. And the sum total he earned during our relationship, and the sum total I earned, were very close. But the unreliability was INCREDIBLY stressful. And it also meant that we would fall into debt, and then when things were better, be working our way out, only to have him lose a job and then back on the debt-wagon just to get by...
It is a bad way to try and live. If instead he had earned less but it was consistent and reliable, we likely would have just adjusted our normal spending levels and lifestyles and expectations in a more sensible way to accommodate what we had coming in. Rather than boom and bust.
I swear I would think you were the perfect woman if we agreed on monogamy even saying that had we met during the time I was in Ohio we may have been best buds.
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Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
In the places that I've lived recently, a household income of $60K if you don't have kids, puts you right on the cusp between "lower middle class" and "middle class." You can live on it. Plenty get by with a lot less. That would be Colorado and Arizona.
Yep, location is key, in much of "flyover" America 60K even with kids put's you solidly in middle class, while on the coasts or in the larger metro cities 60K ranges from the high end of poverty to the low end of working poor basically 60K in a mid sized town in Wyoming you living a nice life, not great but comfortable with enough to save and have a few luxuries. 60K in LA or NYC and your living in a shoebox with 3 roommates
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Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
But hell, I knew a homeless (couch surfer, con-weasel type) guy once who had NO problem getting women, whether to sleep with or have relationships with. He was also really short, too! But he was a cute little dude with pretty eyes and an acoustic guitar, and he knew where to go to look for the hippie chicks. Still plenty of that sort in a lot of the little mountain towns. And now that I think of it, a friend of mine dated a man who lived out of a sketchy van and who busked on sidewalks for a living. Older fella, British accent.
You don't have to have factors A, B, and C in perfect alignment and abundance, you just have to have SOMETHING going for you (and manage not to have a self sabotaging, destructive attitude, that helps as well.)
And again that depends on location, If I lived in Boulder, Cincinnati, Akron, Portland, Seattle or Athens Georgia I could be living in a van play guitar in a park and spend my nights bangin some hottie who's dad owns a car lot, women in general are just more down to earth in those places(based on my experience of course) and yes that can happen anywhere but not as easily nor as often. here in the dallas/Ft.worth area a guy like that over 25? if he is good looking enough may find women that will play with him for the night or a random hookup, but very few would get serious with him.
But you know how things are different from region to region since you lived in different states unlike many here. in fact I remember you talking in a relationship thread about someplace you lived where the dating pool was 80% stoners and military guys and you were into neither(correct me if I'm misquoting)
When men come on here proclaiming they do not care how much a woman makes, I immediately tell them they SHOULD. Or more specifically, they should care about her earning potential, spending habits and financial stability (no matter what the income level).
Again, I think there's an invisible or implied "that much" at the end of that sentence. Honestly, I think men usually say this in response to women who sell themselves as a catch because of their advanced degree, 400K salary, house in the Hamptons, etc. It's not that they don't care at all how much a woman makes, it's simply that they don't care enough about a woman's earning potential to choose a modest-looking but high earning woman over a low-earning and good-looking woman. Think the very cute art history major making 40K on the staff at the Guggenheim vs the very average-looking dermatologist making 700K annually. For a lot of men, I dare say most men, salary/money becomes an almost irrelevant factor once some minimal threshold of earning has been reached. The only time a higher salary might really matter is when everything else they value in a woman (looks, femininity, intelligence, grace, nurturing spirit) is pretty close.
Again, I think there's an invisible or implied "that much" at the end of that sentence. Honestly, I think men usually say this in response to women who sell themselves as a catch because of their advanced degree, 400K salary, house in the Hamptons, etc. It's not that they don't care at all how much a woman makes, it's simply that they don't care enough about a woman's earning potential to choose a modest-looking but high earning woman over a low-earning and good-looking woman. Think the very cute art history major making 40K on the staff at the Guggenheim vs the very average-looking dermatologist making 700K annually. For a lot of men, I dare say most men, salary/money becomes an almost irrelevant factor once some minimal threshold of earning has been reached. The only time a higher salary might really matter is when everything else they value in a woman (looks, femininity, intelligence, grace, nurturing spirit) is pretty close.
I think as a man having two type A personalities wouldn't work. Both people working long hours . I also don't think a 700k woman and a average earning man would have anything in common.
And that is a reasonable way to think, that's why it's better to have a partner who loves or atleast likes his job even if it pays crap, because they are more likely to keep it, as apposed to someone who hates their job or is stressed often in their field but makes a ton of money, as those people eventually burn out, or develop health problems later in life.
I swear I would think you were the perfect woman if we agreed on monogamy even saying that had we met during the time I was in Ohio we may have been best buds.
Yep, location is key, in much of "flyover" America 60K even with kids put's you solidly in middle class, while on the coasts or in the larger metro cities 60K ranges from the high end of poverty to the low end of working poor basically 60K in a mid sized town in Wyoming you living a nice life, not great but comfortable with enough to save and have a few luxuries. 60K in LA or NYC and your living in a shoebox with 3 roommates
And again that depends on location, If I lived in Boulder, Cincinnati, Akron, Portland, Seattle or Athens Georgia I could be living in a van play guitar in a park and spend my nights bangin some hottie who's dad owns a car lot, women in general are just more down to earth in those places(based on my experience of course) and yes that can happen anywhere but not as easily nor as often. here in the dallas/Ft.worth area a guy like that over 25? if he is good looking enough may find women that will play with him for the night or a random hookup, but very few would get serious with him.
But you know how things are different from region to region since you lived in different states unlike many here. in fact I remember you talking in a relationship thread about someplace you lived where the dating pool was 80% stoners and military guys and you were into neither(correct me if I'm misquoting)
Agree with much of what you said.
Also, along with location, demographics means a lot.
I got stuck with the double whammy of having being raised in a demographic where money and status means everything, but not having the personality or desire to pursue that.
I'm not joking either. You NEVER see someone of my demographic working at TJ Maxx, or Home Depot, or the local supermarket. It just doesn't happen.
There's a first for everything though ... if my job doesn't kill me first.
Again, I think there's an invisible or implied "that much" at the end of that sentence. Honestly, I think men usually say this in response to women who sell themselves as a catch because of their advanced degree, 400K salary, house in the Hamptons, etc. It's not that they don't care at all how much a woman makes, it's simply that they don't care enough about a woman's earning potential to choose a modest-looking but high earning woman over a low-earning and good-looking woman. Think the very cute art history major making 40K on the staff at the Guggenheim vs the very average-looking dermatologist making 700K annually. For a lot of men, I dare say most men, salary/money becomes an almost irrelevant factor once some minimal threshold of earning has been reached. The only time a higher salary might really matter is when everything else they value in a woman (looks, femininity, intelligence, grace, nurturing spirit) is pretty close.
IMO, compatibility lies somewhere more along the lines of being able to work the system ... being good at the game of life if you will.
For instance, in your example, somebody who starts off making 40K working at the Gugg, can eventually rise up the ranks IF they know exactly what they are doing and have the charisma and intelligence and strategy and focus to make it work.
They could probably be making 120k as a curator or director, make interesting decisions, and being out at 5 every day. Spend a lot of time in the Hamptons as you imply. Bar Harbor, wherever.
Meanwhile, somebody who is a doctor might be making 200K but they're really just busting their tail, maybe working up to 60 hours a week including
weekends, and dealing with a lot of difficulties.
So, the guy who can similarly cruise up the ladder will pick the art major...
IMO, compatibility lies somewhere more along the lines of being able to work the system ... being good at the game of life if you will.
For instance, in your example, somebody who starts off making 40K working at the Gugg, can eventually rise up the ranks IF they know exactly what they are doing and have the charisma and intelligence and strategy and focus to make it work.
They could probably be making 120k as a curator or director, make interesting decisions, and being out at 5 every day. Spend a lot of time in the Hamptons as you imply. Bar Harbor, wherever.
Meanwhile, somebody who is a doctor might be making 200K but they're really just busting their tail, maybe working up to 60 hours a week including
weekends, and dealing with a lot of difficulties.
So, the guy who can similarly cruise up the ladder will pick the art major...
What you are describing is what my circle calls "slow burn" careers, basically very seniority based jobs where you move up as people retire or DIE yes if you are good at your job you will eventually move up and make a good living but often after years of living hand to mouth like social work, school administration and yes the arts, you will starve for awhile working at a museum until you get to the administration level then the pay takes a huge jump problem is that's a field where people stay on well past retirement age because they actually enjoy what they do so moving up is slow so many aren't making good money until their 40s or 50's depending on where they live.
I think we need to consider the fact that men and women are often looking for different things at different stages of life. If you're talking about a woman in her early 20s on Tinder, then she might not spend any time reading profiles, which is why she chose to go on Tinder and not one of the other apps that's known for more serious daters. If you're talking about an older woman, then yeah, she's going to read profiles because she's more likely to be looking for a relationship, and in the aggregate there are probably more women on apps looking for serious relationships than men.
But men are really no different. When men get serious, in my opinion and experience, they tend to raise their standards all around. While a pretty face, tight bod, empty head and light bank account might cut it for 2-3 months of fun, it might not cut it for wife status. Most men are not trying to marry empty headed women. I honestly think a lot of younger women today are confused by this and don't fully understand why those Instagram pictures of them sitting on DJ Khaled's lap in a nightclub as he's pouring Ciroc down their throats could possibly eliminate them from many men's list of potential long term prospects.
when a woman is gonna' be set up with a potential guy, her first question is gonna' be 'what does he do for a living ?'.
when a man is gonna' be set up with a potential girl, his first question is gonna' be 'do yoo hav any pics of her ?'.
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee
I agree with this. I'm not sure why a lot of women believe men don't make the same judgments. The biggest difference is that a lot of men will not rule out women for sex even if they've already ruled them out for any type of serious relationship.
I think this is true for men too. Some men will say "I don't care about how much a woman makes" when really they mean "I don't care about how much a woman makes as much as some women care about what a man makes." I think men actually care about finances/degrees more than they sometimes let on and that women often care about looks more than they let on.
In general, I think nearly everyone has superficial standards and that once those standards are met anything above and beyond becomes superfluous. For men, for example, they might care that a woman has a degree, but they might not care what type of degree she has and whether that degree will allow her to earn enough money to support the entire family in a pinch and also allow them to purchase 2-3 cars and an annual vacation to Disney and afford private school and a house in a nice neighborhood with good public schools in case private school doesn't work out. The bar is typically set lower but there is a bar.
men generally dont care about a womans job becuz at least the first few dates we are the ones that need to afford to take her out.
women care about a mans job becuz she dont pay for anything and would prefer white table cloths rather than dollar menu drive-thru.
Last edited by stanley-88888888; 10-12-2022 at 04:47 AM..
The same elimination process and percentages apply to the corresponding female market, so things are in balance. With the percentages so small, it's just more difficult to find each other.
when a woman is gonna' be set up with a potential guy, her first question is gonna' be 'what does he do for a living ?'
A lot of women, possibly even be most women if you're talking about women under 35, would also ask "Do you have any pics of him?" I think young women today put a lot more emphasis on looks compared to prior generations. Some care about looks as much as they care about career. They want a guy with both, not one or the other.
I think as a man having two type A personalities wouldn't work. Both people working long hours . I also don't think a 700k woman and a average earning man would have anything in common.
They could have plenty in common. There are many very educated and urbane people who don't have high salaries.
And I guess it depends on what you consider "average earning." What I have in mind is a typical college graduate, who on average at age 30 makes between 60-70K. A male doctor is not going to think he has nothing in common with a woman pulling down 60K working at a non-profit.
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