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I'm not trying to say that I represent all women either, but I AM trying to get across to you that there is a legitimate variety of thinking and priorities and desires among women in the world. It's not a thing of, "all women are alike and those who say they're not like that are lying" which seems to be your position.
No, that's not my position. Let's try to agree here and not assume that people are speaking in such categorical terms using words like "all," "always" and "never." I tend to presume people are thinking with more nuance than that even if it's not explicitly stated that they're not talking about ALL of the members of a specific group.
I never said "all women think this way." I did say that you often don't know what is animating someone's decisions until you press them for details, at which point it sometimes becomes clear that there's a disconnect between the stated and actual preference. Oftentimes people are not even aware of the disconnect until you point it out to them. So I might be talking to a friend who says she doesn't care about X, and then point out to her that she always rejects men who don't have X, and then she says "Oh, well, I guess I do really care about X then!"
It might not even necessarily be the case that the person is lying, but more likely that it's a blindspot in their thinking/reasoning. We all have them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
It's a ridiculous mindset, but you're free to cling to it if you like, it's a free country. Ain't nobody stoppin' you.
It's not clear to me whether you're talking about me or not. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. If you are talking about me, however, you should acknowledge that you completely created a strawman argument to knock down. I feel like you sometimes have a tendency to fill in the blanks in a way that conforms to a pre-determined narrative in your mind. An example would be your post in a different thread (I believe it was your post) about things you said happened in a movie you had never seen that never actually happened in the movie. The prudent response after saying "I have never seen the movie" is to stop talking instead of guessing what did or did not happen and then creating a whole entire post around non-existent facts.
Last edited by BajanYankee; 10-11-2022 at 01:06 PM..
I also think how women evaluate men's appearances is very different. I want to emphasize a point Sonic made here, but didn't make strongly enough. Even when you ask women to specifically rate guys on their attractiveness, that rating is informed by women inferring things into who this guy's character is and then evaluating both his attractiveness and their impression of who this guy's character combined. Women don't seperate the two the way guys tend to (where a guy can both think a woman is really annoying but still hot - ie Emily Ratajkowski). So you can be a guy who might otherwise appear to other men to be attractive, but if this women don't like this guy's political views, she will still think of him as ugly. Strong emotional feelings about who a guy is, bleed into how women percieve a given man's attractiveness for women in a way that they don't seem to do for men.
Which again is part of Rbccl's larger point that some men don't understand attraction.
I actually agree with you here though it's only tangentially related to my post.
My point is that people don't always say the quiet parts out loud. That when someone says "I don't care about looks" that it can sometimes mean "I don't care about looks that much," with the "that much" possibly being quite a lot depending on who is making the statement. And this isn't confined to looks, which I think people are laser-focused on in this discussion. It can pertain to many different things. Someone might say "I don't care how much she makes" and then in the next breath say "Yeah, okay, but I mean more than minimum wage." The only point I was making was that broad statements like "I don't care about X" sometimes have little value until the person making the statement is confronted with a real-world scenario involving X.
Sometimes statements need to be unpacked and shouldn't necessarily be taken at face value. In most cases, saying you can't find a "good" or "quality" person is one such statement since planet earth has no shortage of good and decent people.
No, that's not my position. Let's try to agree here and not assume that people are speaking in such categorical terms using words like "all," "always" and "never." I tend to presume people are thinking with more nuance than that even if it's not explicitly stated that they're not talking about ALL of the members of a specific group.
I never said "all women think this way." I did say that you often don't know what is animating someone's decisions until you press them for details, at which point it sometimes becomes clear that there's a disconnect between the stated and actual preference. Oftentimes people are not even aware of the disconnect until you point it out to them. So I might be talking to a friend who says she doesn't care about X, and then point out to her that she always rejects men who don't have X, and then she says "Oh, well, I guess I do really care about X then!"
It might not even necessarily be the case that the person is lying, but more likely that it's a blindspot in their thinking/reasoning. We all have them.
It's not clear to me whether you're talking about me or not. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. If you are talking about me, however, you should acknowledge that you completely created a strawman argument to knock down. I feel like you sometimes have a tendency to fill in the blanks in a way that conforms to a pre-determined narrative in your mind. An example would be your post in a different thread (I believe it was your post) about things you said happened in a movie you had never seen that never actually happened in the movie. The prudent response after saying "I have never seen the movie" is to stop talking instead of guessing what did or did not happen and then creating a whole entire post around non-existent facts.
OK look, it really seemed to be a statement that women who say that we don't care about looks, actually do. And my whole damn position in this conversation is just that those who spend decades struggling, frustrated and alone, talking about how they just can't find someone good enough for them... Well the world isn't gonna change for any particular one, right? I think you and I both agree on that? But I don't know it's always that someone is too picky, or that maybe they COULD get someone more like what they really want, if they'd adjust themselves to be a better match for that kind of person. The young fella I mentioned some few posts back is not going to have a lot of luck, I think, with well paid white collar professional women like me, unless he gets more stable in his life. My friend who dated him is a wandering Renaissance Festival performer...so they were a better fit at least on that level.
Regarding the movie thing, no, I have not seen the movie nor do I care to, but I did Google it and I read a synopsis. You (I think? Someone?) said that the "lightening might strike" comment was in fact a callback to something her father had said earlier in the film, so I was correct that it was a reference to some other context. Even if the scene in the video was their very first conversation, I did not feel that it began where the video began, because in that video there was no setup for the "I don't want to be your patient"...like where had they even discussed a doctor/patient relationship? Would be nonsensical to say that out of nowhere for no reason. There was missing dialog somewhere. And Pitt actually is playing the part of DEATH, not a human guy, so yes he DID know about her father having said that, and he DID drop it on purpose to get a reaction out of her, which is exactly what happened.
But I dropped it at the time because it seemed to me like dissecting a movie was rather not the point of that conversation, and it isn't the point here either. Just because I don't necessarily keep on arguing does not mean that I slunk off in humiliation, having been soundly been proven wrong upon the keyboard battlefield. Sometimes it just means that it's not worth it to bicker over details.
And Pitt actually is playing the part of DEATH, not a human guy, so yes he DID know about her father having said that, and he DID drop it on purpose to get a reaction out of her, which is exactly what happened.
Actually, you're wrong here again. We've moved beyond the scope of the OP now so let's just drop it.
The lesson here, though, is that you don't always have to have an opinion on everything, especially on things you're not educated about.
I actually agree with you here though it's only tangentially related to my post.
My point is that people don't always say the quiet parts out loud. That when someone says "I don't care about looks" that it can sometimes mean "I don't care about looks that much," with the "that much" possibly being quite a lot depending on who is making the statement. And this isn't confined to looks, which I think people are laser-focused on in this discussion. It can pertain to many different things. Someone might say "I don't care how much she makes" and then in the next breath say "Yeah, okay, but I mean more than minimum wage." The only point I was making was that broad statements like "I don't care about X" sometimes have little value until the person making the statement is confronted with a real-world scenario involving X.
Sometimes statements need to be unpacked and shouldn't necessarily be taken at face value. In most cases, saying you can't find a "good" or "quality" person is one such statement since planet earth has no shortage of good and decent people.
i notice that with women (i am hetoro-male so i dont examine what men say as much). i guess they just presume that some unwritten threshold is obvious to everyone. like:
Quote:
girl: heights not important to me.
guy: so you will date someone who is 5'2'' like yoo ?
girl: well obviously he has to be taller than me and i like to wear 6-inch heels so he has to be a minimum 6'4''.
-or-
Quote:
girl: his profession doesnt matter to me.
guy: cool, he is currently not working ?
girl: well obviously he needs to be able to afford a hawaii vacation and make at least $100,000.
I don’t know why some men refuse to understand attraction. Is it just easier to focus outward than to be more self aware? Definitely not productive.
You can hold up a picture and say “here’s an attractive guy” and I can say “no he isn’t”. The room will be divided in some ratio of yes vs no.
Yep. My best friend and I had totally different taste in men. I'm sure any man I turned down felt I was too picky. I never felt a need to justify my choices though. I did turn down one guy who I felt was too short, but he came with a bunch of other negatives. I ended up with a guy who was the same height of the rejected guy, but came with a huge list of positives.
Like most people, I have my mental list of what I wanted in a guy, but it always came down to the whole package.
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Where with guys it may not really matter what a woman writes in her dating profile at all, if she looks good, these guys will give chase. Women pretty much all read the dating profile.
I think we need to consider the fact that men and women are often looking for different things at different stages of life. If you're talking about a woman in her early 20s on Tinder, then she might not spend any time reading profiles, which is why she chose to go on Tinder and not one of the other apps that's known for more serious daters. If you're talking about an older woman, then yeah, she's going to read profiles because she's more likely to be looking for a relationship, and in the aggregate there are probably more women on apps looking for serious relationships than men.
But men are really no different. When men get serious, in my opinion and experience, they tend to raise their standards all around. While a pretty face, tight bod, empty head and light bank account might cut it for 2-3 months of fun, it might not cut it for wife status. Most men are not trying to marry empty headed women. I honestly think a lot of younger women today are confused by this and don't fully understand why those Instagram pictures of them sitting on DJ Khaled's lap in a nightclub as he's pouring Ciroc down their throats could possibly eliminate them from many men's list of potential long term prospects.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shelato
I also think how women evaluate men's appearances is very different. I want to emphasize a point Sonic made here, but didn't make strongly enough. Even when you ask women to specifically rate guys on their attractiveness, that rating is informed by women inferring things into who this guy's character is and then evaluating both his attractiveness and their impression of who this guy's character combined. .
Men do this, or I do and the men I know do. What they're wearing, a band t-shirt, how they're holding themselves posture wise, how "put together" their hair is. It's rarely for me their looks on a ranking level, its about the vibe they give and how they're showing themselves to the world. You can tell a lot of some people by their photos, and photo choices, and that impacts me (and many guys I know) much more than hot or not. Never mind a twinkle in the eye or a smirk of the lips.
Men do this, or I do and the men I know do. What they're wearing, a band t-shirt, how they're holding themselves posture wise, how "put together" their hair is. It's rarely for me their looks on a ranking level, its about the vibe they give and how they're showing themselves to the world. You can tell a lot of some people by their photos, and photo choices, and that impacts me (and many guys I know) much more than hot or not. Never mind a twinkle in the eye or a smirk of the lips.
I agree with this. I'm not sure why a lot of women believe men don't make the same judgments. The biggest difference is that a lot of men will not rule out women for sex even if they've already ruled them out for any type of serious relationship.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanley-88888888
i notice that with women (i am hetoro-male so i dont examine what men say as much). i guess they just presume that some unwritten threshold is obvious to everyone. like:
-or-
I think this is true for men too. Some men will say "I don't care about how much a woman makes" when really they mean "I don't care about how much a woman makes as much as some women care about what a man makes." I think men actually care about finances/degrees more than they sometimes let on and that women often care about looks more than they let on.
In general, I think nearly everyone has superficial standards and that once those standards are met anything above and beyond becomes superfluous. For men, for example, they might care that a woman has a degree, but they might not care what type of degree she has and whether that degree will allow her to earn enough money to support the entire family in a pinch and also allow them to purchase 2-3 cars and an annual vacation to Disney and afford private school and a house in a nice neighborhood with good public schools in case private school doesn't work out. The bar is typically set lower but there is a bar.
Last edited by BajanYankee; 10-11-2022 at 05:21 PM..
When men come on here proclaiming they do not care how much a woman makes, I immediately tell them they SHOULD. Or more specifically, they should care about her earning potential, spending habits and financial stability (no matter what the income level).
Most people do and/or should (in majority of cases) be marry someone they are financially compatible with, or there is a power imbalance that can cause problems when life catches you by the short hairs.
I think the pictures one uses for OLD shows what they are after. If a guy is posting "model" like instagram style posts, and proclaims he is just looking for the girl next door to settle down with, I wouldn't be buying it.
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I never felt a need to justify my choices though. I did turn down one guy who I felt was too short, but he came with a bunch of other negatives. I ended up with a guy who was the same height of the rejected guy, but came with a huge list of positives.