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This is really a silly question, to think that in this day and age someone would actually ask why any person would be sure that a god doesnt exist when the issue explains itself. Really, c'mon.
It only appears silly to those who are prone to shallow thinking and superficial analysis.
The exact same certainty that assures you that dragons don't exist.
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,i mean apart from that you think its unlikely,or apart from having bad religious experiences,,, because if anyone says anything about the existence of God,you all seem so sure that its just fairytales or spaghetti monsters and stuff,loads of things may be unliklely but that dont mean that its immpossible???
The faithful never admit their favorite god(s) is the least bit unlikely. They assert that he's very real, active, involved in the most mundane daily activities of individuals and no one who doubts their god-claims is rational. Religions are totally based on the fervent beliefs of their followers, not on any kind of reality. When people stop believing, that particular religion simply no longer exists. Throughout history, mankind has tossed many religions on the scrap heap.
Originally Posted by axemanjoe This is really a silly question, to think that in this day and age someone would actually ask why any person would be sure that a god doesnt exist when the issue explains itself. Really, c'mon.
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
It only appears silly to those who are prone to shallow thinking and superficial analysis.
....and in he rides again on Warhorse The Magnificent!
My thinking and analysis is never shallow nor superficial. It just differs fundamentally from yours is all. Which, I also now understand, makes it officially shallow and superficial to you.
As I've repeated now several times, Mystic, my life, my spiritual understanding and my peace of mind do not require (nor even seek..) die enlosung or some final all-resolving answer to the questions you seem to have spent an inordinate amount of time resolving in your life.
My simple question: "Why" (it's almost magically elegant, don't you agree? Almost Einsteinian or Hawkin-eque, would you not agree?)
In other, simpler words, why do we need some Greater Creator? Some source of the origins of "it" all? Given our obvious primate intellectual limitations (which I'd hope to all get-out you can also accept, as an integral part of this transient species called man) why is it impossible that we may have come from some unintelligible (to us I mean) greater universal reality that is simply the uptake and exhalations of some equally unintelligible, probably unintelligent "energy" or whatever?
The somewhat conceivable idea of a recurring universe, one that comes and goes, burping into early existence and then expanding (which we've observed now), then later collapsing, then re-building, expanding, and so on ad infinitum. An idea whose astronomical and quantum physics predictions are also documented, which is always a good sign of a quality concept.
I know from your posts over on the Christian sub that you indeed have a far less intellectual belief system, one that is far more typical of the devout faith-based Christian than you let on here. Back here, you put on your "intellectualist" hat, but your arguments are still without a sound basis. They are at their heart, always, faith-based. You even confirm this.
I simply cut to the bottom-line chase right from the git-go, and will only accept as fact that which is empirically proven. Outside of those observables, it's all speculation, and a lot of that is silly and too primitive to warrant honest theoretical review. And so frankly, I chose to not bother. Not until my mind evolves beyond it's current oversimplifying but documented "158" level....
This is really a silly question, to think that in this day and age someone would actually ask why any person would be sure that a god doesnt exist when the issue explains itself. Really, c'mon.
Subatomic particles,................ you lost me, sorry.
This is really a silly question, to think that in this day and age someone would actually ask why any person would be sure that a god doesnt exist when the issue explains itself. Really, c'mon.
i dont think its a silly question and i appreciate everyones input into this thread,what do you mean bye the issue explains itself,after all their is no proof that god dosent exist,so the possibility is still there,so my wuestion was sincere and IMO not at all silly,people that dont beleive in God have their reasons,im curious in why.
The somewhat conceivable idea of a recurring universe, one that comes and goes, burping into early existence and then expanding (which we've observed now), then later collapsing, then re-building, expanding, and so on ad infinitum. An idea whose astronomical and quantum physics predictions are also documented, which is always a good sign of a quality concept.
a concept that has been known for thousands of years through Vedic knowledge
....and in he rides again on Warhorse The Magnificent!
My thinking and analysis is never shallow nor superficial. It just differs fundamentally from yours is all. Which, I also now understand, makes it officially shallow and superficial to you.
Amazing . . . we agree!
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As I've repeated now several times, Mystic, my life, my spiritual understanding and my peace of mind do not require (nor even seek..) die enlosung or some final all-resolving answer to the questions you seem to have spent an inordinate amount of time resolving in your life.
I assume you meant die losung . . . the solution . . . but you fool yourself by this position because in reality you do loudly and vociferously proclaim the solution . . . "empiricist materialism" . . . all the while ignoring what you claim you "don't need to know" . . . but assume by default. Make up your mind.
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My simple question: "Why" (it's almost magically elegant, don't you agree? Almost Einsteinian or Hawkin-eque, would you not agree?)
In other, simpler words, why do we need some Greater Creator? Some source of the origins of "it" all? Given our obvious primate intellectual limitations (which I'd hope to all get-out you can also accept, as an integral part of this transient species called man) why is it impossible that we may have come from some unintelligible (to us I mean) greater universal reality that is simply the uptake and exhalations of some equally unintelligible, probably unintelligent "energy" or whatever?
The somewhat conceivable idea of a recurring universe, one that comes and goes, burping into early existence and then expanding (which we've observed now), then later collapsing, then re-building, expanding, and so on ad infinitum. An idea whose astronomical and quantum physics predictions are also documented, which is always a good sign of a quality concept.
what you have described is what most people with less ego would call God . . . inscrutable . . . but God nonetheless. You are mired in your preoccupation with the many absurd "beliefs about" God that conflict with yours (as just described). But "beliefs about" God have nothing whatsoever to do with the existential question of God . . . since you have already alluded to your version of "beliefs about" it. God exists . . . we simply have different "beliefs about" God, period.
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I know from your posts over on the Christian sub that you indeed have a far less intellectual belief system, one that is far more typical of the devout faith-based Christian than you let on here. Back here, you put on your "intellectualist" hat, but your arguments are still without a sound basis. They are at their heart, always, faith-based. You even confirm this.
But . . .just as your, rifle . . . they are "beliefs about" and those have a different and far more personal basis than question about the existence of God itself . . . which is in my view completely undeniable. It find your God irrational and untenable from a logical and phenomenological basis. Consciousness from non-consciousness at a PRIMORDIAL FUNDAMENTAL level is a non-starter. Origins require brute fact premises (and should not be confused with current conditions and their existing possibilities . . . as you frequently do). Starting with a brute fact premise . . . AT THE PRIMORDIAL LEVEL (to differentiate it from your conflation of current conditions with ones about ORIGINATION) there is no logical way to get from a FUNDAMENTAL (brute fact) premise of non-existence to a predicate of existence for any phenomenon . . . without presuming its existence in some alternate (precursor) state.
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I simply cut to the bottom-line chase right from the git-go, and will only accept as fact that which is empirically proven. Outside of those observables, it's all speculation, and a lot of that is silly and too primitive to warrant honest theoretical review. And so frankly, I chose to not bother. Not until my mind evolves beyond it's current oversimplifying but documented "158" level....
Take care now, yah hear!
I understand your empiricist views and I have never questioned (nor considered relevant) your intellectual ability . . . just your knowledge and depth of analysis in certain areas. Our intellectual "pedigrees" should be obvious in our contributions . . . or they are pointless. I announce mine in my screen name only to pre-empt superficial dismissals of my often less than obvious points and rationales. It has not worked . . . but I am a relative newcomer to online forums. City-Data is only the second one I have ever participated in . . . and the most enjoyable. (FYI my documented "level" is 165)
i dont think its a silly question and i appreciate everyones input into this thread,what do you mean bye the issue explains itself,after all their is no proof that god dosent exist,so the possibility is still there,so my wuestion was sincere and IMO not at all silly,people that dont beleive in God have their reasons,im curious in why.
It is my opinion,...my opinion,........ that to believe in a god, or otherwise supreme being that created the universe and can see all we do and actually hears prayers and has the power and/or ability to make things happen here on earth or elsewhere in the universe, is just that, silly, very silly. It is a puerile concept in the same vein as dragons, fairies, witches and werewolves.
As humans are emotionally frail and given to impulsive rationale, I am not surprised that so many do indeed believe in a god of some sort. What I am surprised is that with so many truly intelligent people abounding on this earth there are so many that still believe in such drivel. It is also my opinion, again just my opinion, that these same people are either in denial, meaing refusing to believe the truth rather than in the river, or are just putting on an act to fit in for their own gain. Can you imagine how unsuccessful most politicians, if not all, would be in getting elected if they were to embrace the truth regarding this issue? All the church types would have no problem shunning them and surely wouldn't vote for such a politician.
Believing in gods and supreme beings is akin to worshiping thunder and lightning. It's no wonder primitive mankind looked upon what was misunderstood as some kind of god. I would like to think that as a race we've outgrown such thinking, but alas, church parking lots still fill up on sundays, and we still can't but liquor on sunday in some states. Sad, very sad.
But to answer your quesion, I do not believe in such nonsense because I am a realist. As a realist I can see very clearly and easily how silly and ridiculous any belief in god is. The mere existence of the universe explains why any such beliefs are silly.
Last edited by axemanjoe; 03-06-2011 at 01:14 PM..
Subatomic particles,................ you lost me, sorry.
Do you believe in them, or not?
Have you ever personally seen them, or merely accept the claim that they exist without any proof?
Do you take some things at face value while deriding others, when you have no personal experience with any of them?
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What makes an Atheist..........
