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Old 11-25-2007, 01:35 PM
 
33 posts, read 72,876 times
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It is debates like these that urge me to question why there is a need to give human personas to things that aren't human.
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Old 11-25-2007, 01:49 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,392,963 times
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Originally Posted by Oren
Quote:
It is debates like these that urge me to question why there is a need to give human personas to things that aren't human.
Because if you don't the Bible becomes useless and you might as well read tarot cards, or thee leaves, or some other stuff.
Every story (even those in the Bible) is shaped by the interpretation of a human storyteller (in other words by human experience).

So to truly understand an African story, I have to be familiar with the African culture. If I only read an African story as a Dutch guy I will miss most of the message and probably will get it all wrong.
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Old 11-25-2007, 02:03 PM
 
33 posts, read 72,876 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by Oren Because if you don't the Bible becomes useless and you might as well read tarot cards, or thee leaves, or some other stuff.
Every story (even those in the Bible) is shaped by the interpretation of a human storyteller (in other words by human experience).

So to truly understand an African story, I have to be familiar with the African culture. If I only read an African story as a Dutch guy I will miss most of the message and probably will get it all wrong.
No...bibles wouldn't become useless, but used more. The bible makes reference to "conversations" between Satan and God, why assume that the conversation was "around the water cooler" or during some kind of supernatural board meeting?

It just confuses things.
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Old 11-25-2007, 02:20 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,392,963 times
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Originally Posted by Oren
Quote:
It just confuses things.
You mean it confuses you?
I don't find it confusing at all.
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Old 11-25-2007, 02:26 PM
 
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Tricky D there is no point you've made that contradicts mine. There remains no proof that Satan is evil and not just the servant of God who carries out the unpleasentness of God's will. I say Satan is in charge of evil as appointed by God and you say God is good and evil which is the fondation that my point is built upon. I believe God is both and that Satan is the servent he sends to carry out is evil will. Gabriel would be the servant to God's good will. I would also argue that each as qualities of the the virtue they serve hence Satan's arguing with God and Gabriel gives total submission to God.
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Old 11-25-2007, 02:29 PM
 
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Oren the words they spoke is the significance of the story and not the format in which they spoke them. It, as Tricky D says, is only confusing you.
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Old 11-25-2007, 02:31 PM
 
33 posts, read 72,876 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by OrenYou mean it confuses you?
I don't find it confusing at all.
Of course you wouldn't.
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Old 11-25-2007, 02:41 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
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Quote:
I believe God is both and that Satan is the servent he sends to carry out is evil will.
If you agree that God is good and evil, tempting Adam & Eve to eat from the tree of the knowledge between good and evil is evil to me, or at least bad parenting.

You do not as a parent tell a toddler that it is forbidden to touch a loaded gun, then place it on the floor near her and leave the room, secure in the knowledge that the child will obey you.
To me that is reckless endangerment and also evil if you as a parent were aware that your actions recklessly endangered a child.
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Old 11-25-2007, 02:49 PM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 13,685,378 times
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Quote:
There remains no proof that Satan is evil and not just the servant of God who carries out the unpleasentness of God's will. I say Satan is in charge of evil as appointed by God and you say God is good and evil which is the fondation that my point is built upon. I believe God is both and that Satan is the servent he sends to carry out is evil will.
Hi Tootken, there are scriptures which speak of satan being evil "from beginning" and if all is out of God as recorded in several scriptures, then I believe that both good and evil are out of Him. I don't believe that God Himself is evil, but that evil is a tool that God uses to teach us and to humble us. If one writes a novel or play where murder might be an element this does not mean that the author is a murderer himself or herself. When the purpose of evil is fulfilled it will no longer be in operation. There are many beneficial things that develop within us due to our experience with evil. If the power of evil developed outside of God, where did it come from? And if it was not a part of His plan, how did it develop outside of His omniscience and if He did not plan for it to develop why would He allow for it to continue? Thanks for sharing and God bless.

Last edited by ShanaBrown; 11-25-2007 at 03:57 PM..
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Old 11-25-2007, 02:54 PM
 
33 posts, read 72,876 times
Reputation: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by tootken View Post
Oren the words they spoke is the significance of the story and not the format in which they spoke them. It, as Tricky D says, is only confusing you.
tootken, perhaps you read just as closely as tricky d. I said it confuses things...

Maybe the words they spoke were symbolic? I don't particularly care for the format, and trust that I do understand the significance...I just don't agree with those that choose to take them literally, draw a conclusion based on today's conventional thinking, and then debate about it.

p.s. I love bandwaggoners and the group spirit they possess!
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