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You want God to fit your religious beliefs. God was here first. You should be trying to get your religious beliefs to fit God. Behold His wonders. Try to understand them.
Until everyone can agree on a definition of god and on what his claims on us might be, there is no WAY to fit one's religious or metaphysical beliefs to him. Indeed, you hold that god is outside nature, which places him outside the realm of even being considered -- since we are but creatures of the natural world. On the other hand if god can be interacted with, then he's not supernatural. "Supernatural" is, in essence, a meaningless word.
You are to be commended, at least, for not being a literalist, which partially answers for you the question of how you could accept a 4.5 billion year old earth, even as a Christian.
Just because science said so? How can they when they were not even there?
If you get mistakes in from their dating methods as found sometimes when dating something within our known lifetime or history; how can anyone date something beyond the scope of human history without confirmation?
Living mollusks have been carbon dated at 2,300 years old dead.
Mortar from an English castle less than 800 years old -carbon 14 test dated at 7,370 years old.
Even fresh seal skins had been carbon 14 test dated at 1,300 years old.
The C-14 system depends on the idea that there has been no catastrophic event in the past fifty thousand years, and yet we are getting errors in the dating method.
So "if" the global flood happened within the 6,000 years time period, it would throw all the measurements out of whack as it also explains why there are errors in the scientific dating method that we have today.
Feel free to share why you believe that the earth is 4.54 billion years old without science and history being able to confirm it.
C-14 dating is not widely used to estimate the age of the earth. The oldest rocks and minerals formed on the earth have been independently dated by four different radiometric dating methods.
Radiometric dating using the naturally-occurring radioactive elements is a simple idea even though it is technically complex. If we know the number of radioactive parent atoms present when a rock formed and the number present now, we can calculate the age of the rock using the decay constant. The number of parent atoms originally present is simply the number present now plus the number of daughter atoms formed by the decay, both of which are quantities that can be measured.
Originally Posted by Ella Parr You want God to fit your religious beliefs. God was here first. You should be trying to get your religious beliefs to fit God. Behold His wonders. Try to understand them.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant
Until everyone can agree on a definition of god and on what his claims on us might be, there is no WAY to fit one's religious or metaphysical beliefs to him.
I really don't agree with that. I think organized religion (OR) designed a theme or a plan or an idea about God and they want everything to fit into that. That is how we got the idea that the earth is only 6,000 years old. It would be much better if OR were more flexible and would just say, "as things are revealed to us, we will adjust our stance." My great grandfather died in the early 1990s at the age of 102 and organized religion is still teaching the same thing today as they taught back when he was born. It's short-sighted, detrimental, and as far as I am concerned, an insult to God. It is the knowledge that I have come to possess that made me try and fit my religious beliefs to God - not trying to make God fit my religious beliefs. I don't think we have to agree on a definition of God or what His claims on us might be. We each have to walk our own path to God. God gave us a brain, and hopefully, a little common sense. As we grow, we should be able to adapt ourselves to God, not try to make God adapt to us.
I started out in church when I was young - like most every other person that has a religious belief. I was 7 when I began to question what they were telling me as truth. I wasn't the brightest bulb in the box, but I knew horse hockey when I heard it. My gosh, how bright does an organized religion have to be to pull the wool over a 7 year old child's eyes???? They failed. I decided that I needed to try and adapt my thinking to God, because there was no way God was going to fit in the box organized religion created for Him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant
Indeed, you hold that god is outside nature, which places him outside the realm of even being considered -- since we are but creatures of the natural world. On the other hand if god can be interacted with, then he's not supernatural. "Supernatural" is, in essence, a meaningless word.
Considered what?
I don't know what I said that makes you believe that I think God is outside nature. That simply isn't true. I see the hand of God everywhere in nature. I think nature reflects God, and God's wondrous works echo from every animal and tree and flower. I think the cycle of life is God in all His glory. I see massive man-made structures and huge airplanes that slip through the air and men that do marvelous things and I see the intelligence that God has bestowed on some. And, I strive to open my mind and my heart (and that tiny box OR created) to let God fill me (and it) so that I might know Him better and glimpse the awesomeness of Him.
I don't know why you are inferring that I ever said anything about supernatural. I didn't.
You seem to be inferring and implying a number of things I don't believe and did not state.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant
You are to be commended, at least, for not being a literalist, which partially answers for you the question of how you could accept a 4.5 billion year old earth, even as a Christian.
er, uh, Thank you???
I'm not a literalist. Haven't been since I was 7. Does make me wonder why so many others don't question. Sadly, OR is real good at mind control or they probably wouldn't be so well populated. Most people live their whole lives and never question. The truly sad part is, that if one does question, they have no where to go for an answer. I was lucky.
"which partially answers for you the question..." What is the other part?
"Even as a Christian"????? It's a good thing that I'm fairly good-natured because I think you're trying to insult me. There are 40,000 Christian denominations, of which I do not attend any. I am sure there have to be some people out there that are somewhat enlightened. I've found Christians on this forum that are enlightened. The only requirement for being a Christian is that one believes in God and accepts that Jesus is the son of God and died for our sins. That's it. Any and everything else has absolutely nothing to do with Christianity. People are people. They run the field of possibilities. They are the good, the bad, and the ugly. Being a Christian has nothing to do with who/what the people are.
It just happens that I am really nice and kinda smart.
Yep...off topic but ,,,yes, Don was a great cyberpal. So was Tom Campbell C34, though we battled over the Ark all the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdAilment
I can't believe people still think this way. The earth is 6,000 years old? The Bible doesn't even say that, you only arrive at 6,000-10,000 years old by adding up all the ages of the people in the bible, which is NOT conclusive evidence.
How do you explain dinosaurs?
How do you explain Neandrathal?
How do you exlpain hominids?
How do you explain Lucy?
How do you explain plate shifting?
How do you explain the Grand Canyon and other rock formations?
How do you explain carbon dating?
You can't discount science because it isn't perfect. Your holding onto a precious book of stories and putting it above tried and true scientific methods is absolutely ludicrous.
It is done with a shrug and a link to Answers in Genesis.
[SIZE=4]sadly man doesn't want to believe what seems impossible. So the tend to believe pretty much anything man would say, especially if they have a title. in order to explain away something that MANY can't explain, it doesn't mean they're ALWAYS right! Those are the ones who refuse to believe there's an ALL Powerful invisible being that over ALL OF US, who created ALL OF US. Sadly what MANY don't understand, when it come to God ,(Jehovah). He uses EVEN THEM, to prove his words. This is why many CAN'T explain away the MANY archeological findings of items or ruins which prove what we've read from the bible not true. I don't agree with scientist if their words go against Jehovah. Like the “big bang theory”. They say God isn't real, neither is his words. yet the bible spoke of his people ,(at that time), the Israelites. Today the ancestor of the 12 tribes of Israel STILL stand today, though many don't know it, They now just call themselves Israelis. peace [/SIZE]
Originally Posted by Ella Parr You want God to fit your religious beliefs. God was here first. You should be trying to get your religious beliefs to fit God. Behold His wonders. Try to understand them.
================================================== =========
I really don't agree with that. I think organized religion (OR) designed a theme or a plan or an idea about God and they want everything to fit into that. That is how we got the idea that the earth is only 6,000 years old. It would be much better if OR were more flexible and would just say, "as things are revealed to us, we will adjust our stance." My great grandfather died in the early 1990s at the age of 102 and organized religion is still teaching the same thing today as they taught back when he was born. It's short-sighted, detrimental, and as far as I am concerned, an insult to God. It is the knowledge that I have come to possess that made me try and fit my religious beliefs to God - not trying to make God fit my religious beliefs. I don't think we have to agree on a definition of God or what His claims on us might be. We each have to walk our own path to God. God gave us a brain, and hopefully, a little common sense. As we grow, we should be able to adapt ourselves to God, not try to make God adapt to us.
I started out in church when I was young - like most every other person that has a religious belief. I was 7 when I began to question what they were telling me as truth. I wasn't the brightest bulb in the box, but I knew horse hockey when I heard it. My gosh, how bright does an organized religion have to be to pull the wool over a 7 year old child's eyes???? They failed. I decided that I needed to try and adapt my thinking to God, because there was no way God was going to fit in the box organized religion created for Him.
Considered what?
I don't know what I said that makes you believe that I think God is outside nature. That simply isn't true. I see the hand of God everywhere in nature. I think nature reflects God, and God's wondrous works echo from every animal and tree and flower. I think the cycle of life is God in all His glory. I see massive man-made structures and huge airplanes that slip through the air and men that do marvelous things and I see the intelligence that God has bestowed on some. And, I strive to open my mind and my heart (and that tiny box OR created) to let God fill me (and it) so that I might know Him better and glimpse the awesomeness of Him.
I don't know why you are inferring that I ever said anything about supernatural. I didn't.
You seem to be inferring and implying a number of things I don't believe and did not state.
er, uh, Thank you???
I'm not a literalist. Haven't been since I was 7. Does make me wonder why so many others don't question. Sadly, OR is real good at mind control or they probably wouldn't be so well populated. Most people live their whole lives and never question. The truly sad part is, that if one does question, they have no where to go for an answer. I was lucky.
"which partially answers for you the question..." What is the other part?
"Even as a Christian"????? It's a good thing that I'm fairly good-natured because I think you're trying to insult me. There are 40,000 Christian denominations, of which I do not attend any. I am sure there have to be some people out there that are somewhat enlightened. I've found Christians on this forum that are enlightened. The only requirement for being a Christian is that one believes in God and accepts that Jesus is the son of God and died for our sins. That's it. Any and everything else has absolutely nothing to do with Christianity. People are people. They run the field of possibilities. They are the good, the bad, and the ugly. Being a Christian has nothing to do with who/what the people are.
It just happens that I am really nice and kinda smart.
Yes you do seem "kinda smart", thus the reason I wonder why you hold onto this God idea. Is it because you were raised to believe in a God and simply modified your belief in God to fit the science?
Just because science said so? How can they when they were not even there?
If you get mistakes in from their dating methods as found sometimes when dating something within our known lifetime or history; how can anyone date something beyond the scope of human history without confirmation?
Living mollusks have been carbon dated at 2,300 years old dead.
Mortar from an English castle less than 800 years old -carbon 14 test dated at 7,370 years old.
Even fresh seal skins had been carbon 14 test dated at 1,300 years old.
The C-14 system depends on the idea that there has been no catastrophic event in the past fifty thousand years, and yet we are getting errors in the dating method.
So "if" the global flood happened within the 6,000 years time period, it would throw all the measurements out of whack as it also explains why there are errors in the scientific dating method that we have today.
Feel free to share why you believe that the earth is 4.54 billion years old without science and history being able to confirm it.
Light, the speed at which travels through a vacuum is finite number, and a value that can be reproduced. When our own Sun is shining the light we see all day long is not the light from the Sun at that very instant, it is light that is almost 9 minute old. It take almost 9 minutes for the light to travel the 93 Million miles to get to the earth. The two main stars are Alpha Centauri A and Alpha Centauri B, which form a binary pair. The third star, which may or may not be part of the system, is Proxima Centauri. It is about 4.22 light-years from Earth and is the closest star other than the sun. What is means when the star is 4.22 light years away, it means that it takes 4.22 years for the light from Proxima Centauri to reach the earth. So each night that we are able to see Proxima Centauri the light that we are seeing is from 4.22 years ago.
If the earth was only 10 thousand years old we would only be able to a view a small percentage of the stars that are visible in the night sky. Since we have show through the Hubble space telescope, what looked like a single star, was in fact multiple galaxies the earth has to be much older than 10 thousand years old.
I am not by any means indicating that there is NO GOD for in fact I do believe in GOD, but that things are just much older than the stories in the bible are indicating.
Just because science said so? How can they when they were not even there?
If you get mistakes in from their dating methods as found sometimes when dating something within our known lifetime or history; how can anyone date something beyond the scope of human history without confirmation?
Living mollusks have been carbon dated at 2,300 years old dead.
Mortar from an English castle less than 800 years old -carbon 14 test dated at 7,370 years old.
Even fresh seal skins had been carbon 14 test dated at 1,300 years old.
The C-14 system depends on the idea that there has been no catastrophic event in the past fifty thousand years, and yet we are getting errors in the dating method.
So "if" the global flood happened within the 6,000 years time period, it would throw all the measurements out of whack as it also explains why there are errors in the scientific dating method that we have today.
Feel free to share why you believe that the earth is 4.54 billion years old without science and history being able to confirm it.
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There are 40,000 Christian denominations, of which I do not attend any. I am sure there have to be some people out there that are somewhat enlightened. I've found Christians on this forum that are enlightened. The only requirement for being a Christian is that one believes in God and accepts that Jesus is the son of God and died for our sins. That's it. Any and everything else has absolutely nothing to do with Christianity. People are people. They run the field of possibilities. They are the good, the bad, and the ugly. Being a Christian has nothing to do with who/what the people are.
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