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You know, Ella, I have zero problem with believers who can make statements like this. Humility, intelligence, and respect for your fellow man need not be undermined by belief in god
I think that this forum tends to attract people with huge ego investments in being "right" and it's refreshing to engage with a different sort of believer for a change. Do continue to hang around!
Thanks, Mordant. I appreciate that.
I agree that this forum tends to attract those who need to be right. I think that Christians (in heavy syrup, as I'll call the OR people ), really think they are coming here and will find others like the ones in church. With 40,000 different denominations, that isn't likely! Then stir in everybody else and you are hard pressed to find anybody to agree with you.
I truly believe so many of the "I'm right, I've just got to be" are very insecure in their beliefs. OR will not stand the test of close scrutiny and most people don't know why they believe anything, other than "church told me". Most of these people don't realize that in every other church denomination (39,999 of them) those people are being taught something different. Most people think church is church is church and that all the people who are Christians (in heavy syrup) are all the same. Most people don't have a clue. OR is very important to them and they just cannot stand a challenge. Their limited beliefs won't hold up on a forum like this.
Originally Posted by PoorInSpirit
Feel free to share why you believe that the earth is 4.54 billion years old without science and history being able to confirm it.
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<cue music> for the Bible tells me so <cut music>
When I was young, I found discrepancies in the story of Creation. As I studied, I found that the timeline as OR teaches was off. I don't know how old the earth is because I don't have a science background, but I'll take science's word for it.
Last edited by Ella Parr; 12-13-2014 at 11:26 PM..
This is way off topic, so I hope they cut us some slack.
I really don't think most non-believers have to worry. I think all is in God's plan and in God's time.
Christianity is but one OR around the world. Many people are turned off by Christianity - usually by Christianity's own doing. Others choose a different path. Many groups of people believe in something not called Jehovah. I don't think people who are not Christians are automatically "doomed". I think that is a silly notion.
I think the heart (conscience) of man will be the biggest judge for his life. Some men's hearts are of stone - regardless of what they profess. Others are not - regardless of what they believe.
I believe man comes in 2 parts. There is the flesh (animal) and there is the conscience (soul). If we are indeed born with a conscience (a soul), then we are being seen through that conscience (soul). Whether or not one believes in God, perhaps God believes in each of us. We each have our own path. Perhaps, non-belief is a path of its own. Perhaps, it is all just part of God's plan.
Last edited by Ella Parr; 12-13-2014 at 11:23 PM..
Mordant, I went and looked up Pascal's Wager. WOW. That was neat. I wasn't familiar with him or his "wager". I was reading fast so I may have missed something important, but it seemed he was promoting a belief in God - just in case. OR hasn't thought of that one. It could be a whole new angle!
Because they believe every second is the same length..To them
Don't fall into the Calendar panic trap. Time passes at the same rate, no matter how we count it - on a calendar or in our heads or even on a clock. But planets rotate at the same speed and it is irrational and without foundation to postulate that it is all speeding up and slowing down without anyone noticing.
And even if it did - it would make no difference. Relatively, it would all work just the same and measure just the same.
The same with C14 and potassium-Argon decay. If our counting is skewed then it makes no difference to decay rate, no more than my watch being wrong makes no difference to time passing.
If the seconds are varying for everything, then it is a difference that makes no difference.
So it seems that your point is not damaging to age of the earth evidence. Indeed, it sems to make it more reliable. If there was any other argument you meant to make, please share.
This is way off topic, so I hope they cut us some slack.
I really don't think most non-believers have to worry. I think all is in God's plan and in God's time.
Christianity is but one OR around the world. Many people are turned off by Christianity - usually by Christianity's own doing. Others choose a different path. Many groups of people believe in something not called Jehovah. I don't think people who are not Christians are automatically "doomed". I think that is a silly notion.
I think the heart (conscience) of man will be the biggest judge for his life. Some men's hearts are of stone - regardless of what they profess. Others are not - regardless of what they believe.
I believe man comes in 2 parts. There is the flesh (animal) and there is the conscience (soul). If we are indeed born with a conscience (a soul), then we are being seen through that conscience (soul). Whether or not one believes in God, perhaps God believes in each of us. We each have our own path. Perhaps, non-belief is a path of its own. Perhaps, it is all just part of God's plan.
The mods have developed a welcome tolerance of off topic if interesting and productive. I take the opportunity of thanking them for well -judged and moderate moderating.
But you didn't answer my question. If we are wrong...if there is a god...or even God...what? Let me clarify. So what? So we are wrong. We can be cool with that. After all we came to disbelief through pretty rigorous evaluation of the facts so what god could hold that against us?
Bottom line, if you are not keeping the old Baculum behind your back, then we have nothing to worry about if we are wrong.
Your clock can be 6 hours off. If the game was played last week the 6 hours is meaningless. But to even have to look at it this way mean these people do not understand decay rates.
C-14 is an issue because of how it is used, or misused in this case. Although the rate may not change the actual amount of the radio isotope can change. so the time is/can be skewed. Anybody that uses c14 as dating the earth does not know radio dating and its limits.
Radio dating is not the best thing but sometimes it is all we have. Fortunately for us there are much better things. Like sea floor spreading. Even if you don't know the age of the rocks it took longer than 100,000,OOO years to form the Atlantic. toss in basic geology and the deal really is sealed shut.
But the bible and the people back then do have it right for what they did know. we came from the dust of the earth. Day was separated from night. The people preaching literal bible are the ones that have it wrong. Not the ones that say god did it or no god did it.
If you believe ... god did it the way the record said he did it.
if you don't believe ... it was done the way the rock record said it was done.
Wait a min, I forget again why this is a big deal again? oh right, people pushing off a belief or non belief as the thing everybody has to accept or they are wrong.
Mordant, I went and looked up Pascal's Wager. WOW. That was neat. I wasn't familiar with him or his "wager". I was reading fast so I may have missed something important, but it seemed he was promoting a belief in God - just in case. OR hasn't thought of that one. It could be a whole new angle!
It's actually a pretty old angle. Christian apologetics makes extensive use of it. I don't want to rehash a critique of it here because it's off topic and has been discussed in some detail in past threads. I'd encourage you to peruse those old threads. It's worth the effort.
It was actually covered very recently and pretty extensively on the atheism forum. All the arguments to show why Pascals wager makes no sense are here:
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), really think they are coming here and will find others like the ones in church. With 40,000 different denominations, that isn't likely! Then stir in everybody else and you are hard pressed to find anybody to agree with you. 
Don't fall into the Calendar panic trap. Time passes at the same rate, no matter how we count it - on a calendar or in our heads or even on a clock. But planets rotate at the same speed and it is irrational and without foundation to postulate that it is all speeding up and slowing down without anyone noticing. 
If we are wrong...if there is a god...or even God...what? Let me clarify. So what? So we are wrong. We can be cool with that. After all we came to disbelief through pretty rigorous evaluation of the facts so what god could hold that against us? 