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Aristotle believed that aphids appeared via abiogenesis from the morning dew.
Redi proved that maggots did not naturally occur on meat left out where flies could not get to it to lay eggs.
Life does not come from non-life. It's that simple.
And all animals give birth to animals that are the same kind as they are... Hey thats what the bible says! So what we observe in nature is evidence of the bible not evolution.
Well put, JF. Mystic, you enjoy telling people how wrong their assumptions and yet yours are equally illogical. Your own personal convictions have driven some of the more ludicrous statements I've read in many a month.
You claim that because we experience our own consciousness, and that things around us just "are", well then, ergo, silly atheists, there mustbe a God.
Nope. No logical sale here. You can insult mine and others' logic powers as having formed so far below yours; you can obfuscate with big words like "obfuscate", or decrie the "rubrics" we use. And on and on. But in the end you're hopelessly stuck in your own circular arguments and altogether too dismissive of any other clean, new approach.
Methinks thou dost protest and project too much. I have asserted none of those things and insulted no one. I decry your and science's doing so by default . . . AS IF there were some scientific basis for it. There is NOT. Accepting my or anyone else's views is NOT the issue . . . making YOURS the default AS IF there were some inherent rational and scientific reason to do so is the arrogance. I understand the anger and frustration with religious who idiotically deny science. But you are not justified in projecting your arrogance and frustration on to someone who has none of those characteristics.
I merely call out your own reticence to openly and directly acknowledge reality and our ignorance as NO BASIS for creating a default position that denies all others (as if it were the more rational one). I gear my use of words to what I perceive as the intellectual level of the recipient (as best I can determine). If you cannot see the philosophical implications of the tools we use . . . that is not my failing.
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The universe around us surely "is". How and why it began or now "is" we'll probably never know. To assume the philosophically smallest, least likely and most mystic mode of origin purely because of "awe" is sad.
Then why do you do it? That silly 14th century friar?
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While the simple, progressive and logical tools of questioning have produced some interesting facts, interactions and truths that lead inevitably towards a single unifying theory or law of all existance, the evidence for your singular god remains stuck in time. Nothing new arises, nothing new illustrates, nothing new astounds, illuminates, validates from that blindered narrow faith-based set of beliefs. Just as Cannibalism's ideology produces nothing new or useful (well, other than a potentially useful form of global protein supply...).
You cannot possibly have been reading my posts and responding to ME . . . clearly your frustration with a narrow group of idiots colors your view of ANY theist . . . Sad . . . very sad. I maintain current subscriptions to science journals and my views could not under any circumstances be considered narrow or faith-based.
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And to boot, the new science has effectively killed many Christian icons. You claim atheists are afraid of religion; I suggest the obvious alternate. Evidence of that surrounds us daily, and the influence of Christianity with it's many flaws declines by the hour. As it should; we've moved out of the cave many millenia past.
I claim science has justified concerns about religious intolerance . . . not that atheists are afraid of religion (though they probably should fear some). I am also willing to bet my current understanding of science exceeds yours, rifleman.
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To quote your earler intellectual dismissal, "it boggles".
It boggles because it comes from supposedly logical rational minds . . . yet is so clouded by frustration and emotion that any rationality is over-ridden . . . as in this tirade against a non-existent opponent . . . certainly not me.
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You also seem to accept science, which is smart because to deny such a simplistic tool's utility would truly position your argument in a dark place. But somehow you then disallow the consequences and hie to that cold dark line of reasoning that says: What science discovers God most surely designed and created.
There's simply no rationale for that one, nor is there any logic to the idea that "because we observe something complex or conscious, it must therefore have been the Druids". No sale, Mystic. Unrelated.
Oh come on . . . and YOUR . . . " there is no source or purpose or reason (nobody did it) . . . it just randomly (meaning we have no idea how) produced design and structure on its own (by magic and other inexplicable but "natural" processes . . . like selection, survival, etc.) . . . it just is . . . it is "natural" . . . is so superior and logical, right.
The penchant for lumping ALL "alternate" realistic views into a default non-view of "fantasy" is the single most illogical characteristic of atheists. The tooth fairy, santa claus, druids, mystics, God , etc are NOT EQUAL in any manner whatsoever . . . especially since your "nature" is an equally "fantastic" unknown agent. WHAT is YOUR explanation for the existence of the universal field defining the metrics of the universe, rifleman . . . since its existence is what enables us to understand the universe? To paraphrase Einstein . . . "The real mystery is that we can understand anything at all about the universe."
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First there was the world, the universe, our blinking awakening as an organism capable of cognition, and then finally the totality of our existance. Then, gazing intently into our newly discovered navels, we became frightened, and we decided we needed rationality and simple peasant-level explanations. And thus, the real "Poof"! God and the world's vast multitude of conflicting and warlike religions suddenly arose.
And the in-fighting and denials and insults continue to this day.
So what? Human frailties exist . . . boo hoo.
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The vast philosophical freedom that I and others (and soon my son, BTW) enjoy from this blatant attempt to maintain a stranglehold on people's minds is quite refreshing. Arguing it with fundamentalists is quite entertaining. Even with those who obfuscate and employ what they think are clever put-downs cloaked in some sort of kindly patronizing smirkage.
You really cannot separate your intellect from your frustration with blind fundamentalists. Your so-called philosophical freedom is itself blinded by it and is targeted to poke your own son's eyes out in your anger and frustration with idiots. The key to successful science is discernment and discrimination . . . you seem to be lacking both.
Benton, M.J., and Pearson, P.N., 2001. Speciation in the fossil record. Trends in Ecology and Evolution 16, pp. 405-411.
Berggren, W.A., Kent, D.V., Swisher, C.C., III, and Aubry, M.P., 1995a, A revised Cenozoic geochronology and chronostratigraphy, in Berggren, W.A., Kent, D.V., Aubrey, M.-P., and Hardenbol, J., eds., Geochronology, Time Scales and Global Stratigraphic Correlation: SEPM (Society for Sedimentary Geology) Special Publication No. 54, p. 129-212.
Berggren, W. A., Hilgen, F.V., Langereis, C.G., Kent, D.V., Obradovich, J.D., Isabella Raffi, Raymo, M.E., and Shackleton, N.J., 1995. Late Neogene chronology: New perspectives in high-resolution stratigraphy. GSA Bulletin: 107, pp. 1272–1287.
Cheetham, A.H., 1986. Tempo of evolution in a Neogene bryozoan: rates of morphologic change within and across species boundaries. Paleobiology 12, pp. 190-202.
Cronin, T.M., 1985. Speciation and stasis in marine Ostracoda: climactic modulation of evolution. Science 227, pp. 60-63.
Darling, K.F., Wade, C.M., Kroon, D., and Leigh Brown, A.J., 1997. Planktonic foraminiferal molecular evolution and their polyphyletic origins from benthic taxa. Marine Micropaleontology 30, pp. 251-266.
De Vargas, C., Zaninetti, I., Hilbrecht, H. & Pawlowski, J., 1997. Phylogeny and rates of molecular evolution of planktonic foraminifera SSU rDNA sequences compared to the fossil record. J. Molec. Evol. 45, pp. 285-294.
Hodell, D.A., and Vayavananda, A., 1993. Early middle Miocene paleoceanography of the western equatorial Pacific (DSDP Site 289) and the evolution of Globorotalia (Fohsella). Marine Micropaleontology, 31, pp. 279-310.
Kellogg, D.E., 1983. Phenology of morphometric change in radiolarian lineages from deep sea cores: implications for microevolution. Paleobiology 9, pp. 335-363.
Kucera, M., and Malmgren, B.A., 1998. Differences between evolution of mean form and evolution of new morphotypes: an example from Late Cretaceous planktonic foraminifera. Paleobiology 24, pp. 49-63.
Kuwahara, K., 1997. Evolutionary patterns of Late Permian Albaillella (Radiolaria) as seen in bedded chert sections in the Mino Belt, Japan, Marine Micropaleontology 30, pp. 65-78.
Lazarus, D.B., 1983. Speciation in pelagic Protista and its study in the microfossil record: a review. Paleobiology 9, pp. 327-340.
Lazarus, D.B., 1986. Tempo and mode of morphologic evolution near the origin of the radiolarian lineage Pterocanium prismatium. Paleobiology 12, pp. 175-189.
Lazarus, H., Hilbrecht, H., Spencer-Cervato, C., and Thierstein, H., 1995. Sympatric speciation and phyletic change in Globorotalia truncatulinoides. Paleobiology 21, pp. 975-978.
Lazarus, D.B., R.P. Scherer, and D.R. Prothero., 1985. Evolution of the radiolarian species-complex Pterocanium: a preliminary survey. Journal of Paleontology 59, pp. 183-221.
Malmgren, B.A., W.A. Berggren, and G.P. Lohmann., 1983. Evidence for punctuated gradualism in the Late Neogene Globorotalia tumida lineage of planktonic foraminifera. Paleobiology 9, pp. 377-389.
Malmgren, B.A., and Berggren, W.A.., 1987. Evolutionary change in some late Neogene planktonic foraminifera lineages and their relationships to paleoceanographic change. Paleoceanography 2, pp. 445-456.
Malmgren, B.A., and Kennett, J.P., 1981. Phyletic gradualism in a Late Cenozoic planktonic foraminiferal lineage, DSDP Site 284, southwest Pacific. Paleobiology 7, pp. 230-240.
Motoyama, I., 1997. Origin and evolution of Cycladophora davisiana Ehrenberg (Radiolaria) in DSDP Site 192, Northwest Pacific, Marine Micropaleontology 30, pp. pp. 45-63.
Pearson, P.N., Shackleton, N.J., and Hall, M.A., 1997. Stable isotopic evidence for the sympatric divergence of Globigerinoides trilobus and Orbulina universa (planktonic foraminifera), Journal of the Geological Society, London 154, pp. 295-302.
Pearson, P. N. A lineage phylogeny for the Paleogene planktonic foraminifera. Micropaleontology 39, 193-232 (1993).
Pearson, P.N., 1998. The glorious fossil record. Nature online, November 19: http://www.nature.com/nature/debates.../fossil_1.html
Raffi, I., Backman, J., and Rio, D., 1998. Evolutionary trends of tropical calcareous nannofossils in the late Neogene, Marine Micropaleontology 35, pp. 17-41.
Sorhannus, U., 1990. Tempo and model of morphological evolution in two Neogene diatom lineages. Evolutionary Biology, 24, pp. 329-370.
Sorhannus, U., Fenster, E.J., Burckle, L.H. & Hoffmann, A., 1998. Cladogenetic and anagenetic changes in the morphology of Rhizosolenia praeburgonii Mukhina. Historical Biology 1, pp. 185-205.
Sorhannus, U., et al., 1999. Iterative evolution in\par the diatom genus Rhizosolenia Ehrenberg. Lethaia 24, pp. 39–44.
Wei, K-Y., 1994. Allometric heterochrony in the Pliocene - Pleistocene planktic foraminiferal clade Globoconella. Paleobiology 14, pp. 345-363.
[SIZE=3]Benton, M.J., and Pearson, P.N., 2001. Speciation in the fossil record. Trends in Ecology and Evolution 16, pp. 405-411. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Berggren, W.A., Kent, D.V., Swisher, C.C., III, and Aubry, M.P., 1995a, A revised Cenozoic geochronology and chronostratigraphy, in Berggren, W.A., Kent, D.V., Aubrey, M.-P., and Hardenbol, J., eds., Geochronology, Time Scales and Global Stratigraphic Correlation: SEPM (Society for Sedimentary Geology) Special Publication No. 54, p. 129-212.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Berggren, W. A., Hilgen, F.V., Langereis, C.G., Kent, D.V., Obradovich, J.D., Isabella Raffi, Raymo, M.E., and Shackleton, N.J., 1995. Late Neogene chronology: New perspectives in high-resolution stratigraphy. GSA Bulletin: 107, pp. 1272–1287.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Cheetham, A.H., 1986. Tempo of evolution in a Neogene bryozoan: rates of morphologic change within and across species boundaries. Paleobiology 12, pp. 190-202. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Cronin, T.M., 1985. Speciation and stasis in marine Ostracoda: climactic modulation of evolution. Science 227, pp. 60-63. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Darling, K.F., Wade, C.M., Kroon, D., and Leigh Brown, A.J., 1997. Planktonic foraminiferal molecular evolution and their polyphyletic origins from benthic taxa. Marine Micropaleontology 30, pp. 251-266[/SIZE][SIZE=3]. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]De Vargas, C., Zaninetti, [/SIZE][SIZE=3]I., Hilbrecht, H. & Pawlowski, J., 1997. Phylogeny and rates of molecular evolution of planktonic foraminifera SSU rDNA sequences compared to the fossil record. J. Molec. Evol. 45, pp. 285-294.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Hodell, D.A., and Vayavananda, A., 1993. Early middle Miocene paleoceanography of the western equatorial Pacific (DSDP Site 289) and the evolution of Globorotalia (Fohsella). Marine Micropaleontology, 31, pp. 279-310[/SIZE][SIZE=3]. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Kellogg, D.E., 1983. Phenology of morphometric change in radiolarian lineages from deep sea cores: implications for microevolution. Paleobiology 9, pp. 335-363[/SIZE][SIZE=3].[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Kucera, M., and Malmgren, B.A., 1998. Differences between evolution of mean form and evolution of new morphotypes: an example from Late Cretaceous planktonic foraminifera. Paleobiology 24, pp. 49-63. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Kuwahara, K., 1997. Evolutionary patterns of Late Permian Albaillella (Radiolaria) as seen in bedded chert sections in the Mino Belt, Japan, Marine Micropaleontology 30, pp. 65-78.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Lazarus, D.B., 1983. Speciation in pelagic Protista and its study in the microfossil record: a review. Paleobiology 9, pp. 327-340. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Lazarus, D.B., 1986. Tempo and mode of morphologic evolution near the origin of the radiolarian lineage Pterocanium prismatium. Paleobiology 12, pp. 175-189. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Lazarus, H., Hilbrecht, H., Spencer-Cervato, C., and Thierstein, H., 1995. Sympatric speciation and phyletic change in Globorotalia truncatulinoides. Paleobiology 21, pp. 975-978[/SIZE][SIZE=3].[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Lazarus, D.B., R.P. Scherer, and D.R. Prothero., 1985. Evolution of the radiolarian species-complex Pterocanium: a preliminary survey. Journal of Paleontology 59, pp. 183-221. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Malmgren, B.A., W.A. Berggren, and G.P. Lohmann., 1983. Evidence for punctuated gradualism in the Late Neogene Globorotalia tumida lineage of planktonic foraminifera. Paleobiology 9, pp. 377-389. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Malmgren, B.A., and Berggren, W.A.., 1987. Evolutionary change in some late Neogene planktonic foraminifera lineages and their relationships to paleoceanographic change. Paleoceanography 2, pp. 445-456[/SIZE][SIZE=3].[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Malmgren, B.A., and Kennett, J.P., 1981. Phyletic gradualism in a Late Cenozoic planktonic foraminiferal lineage, DSDP Site 284, southwest Pacific. Paleobiology 7, pp. 230-240. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Motoyama, I., 1997. Origin and evolution of Cycladophora davisiana Ehrenberg (Radiolaria) in DSDP Site 192, Northwest Pacific, Marine Micropaleontology 30, pp. pp. 45-63.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Pearson, P.N., Shackleton, N.J., and Hall, M.A., 1997. Stable isotopic evidence for the sympatric divergence of Globigerinoides trilobus and Orbulina universa (planktonic foraminifera), Journal of the Geological Society, London 154, pp. 295-302.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Pearson, P. N. A lineage phylogeny for the Paleogene planktonic foraminifera. Micropaleontology 39, 193-232 (1993). [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Pearson, P.N., 1998. The glorious fossil record. Nature online, November 19: [/SIZE][SIZE=3]http://www.nature.com/nature/debates/fossil/fossil_1.html[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Raffi, I., Backman, J., and Rio, D., 1998. Evolutionary trends of tropical calcareous nannofossils in the late Neogene, Marine Micropaleontology 35, pp. 17-41.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Sorhannus, U., 1990. Tempo and model of morphological evolution in two Neogene diatom lineages. Evolutionary Biology, 24, pp. 329-370.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Sorhannus, U., Fenster, E.J., Burckle, L.H. & Hoffmann, A., 1998. Cladogenetic and anagenetic changes in the morphology of Rhizosolenia praeburgonii Mukhina. Historical Biology 1, pp. 185-205[/SIZE][SIZE=3].[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Sorhannus, U., et al., 1999. Iterative evolution in\par the diatom genus Rhizosolenia Ehrenberg. Lethaia 24, pp. 39–44. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Wei, K-Y., 1994. Allometric heterochrony in the Pliocene - Pleistocene planktic foraminiferal clade Globoconella. Paleobiology 14, pp. 345-363[/SIZE][SIZE=3].[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]
wow....that's um.....so........
clear
Can you give me some examples in your own words? Maybe a link to an actual article?
Can you give me some examples in your own words? Maybe a link to an actual article?
Typical backpedaling from you. Not willing to make any effort to learn anything, but wants to be spoon-fed. And even when someone does that, you just spit it back out like a sullen two-year-old.
Why don't you go look up some of those scholarly texts and read them? Don't forget a dictionary; some of the words are going to be *gasp* scientific and scary.
Typical backpedaling from you. Not willing to make any effort to learn anything, but wants to be spoon-fed. And even when someone does that, you just spit it back out like a sullen two-year-old.
Why don't you go look up some of those scholarly texts and read them? Don't forget a dictionary; some of the words are going to be *gasp* scientific and scary.
What is the ONE proof that you have that made you believe in it?
Do you have one? Do you have any reason to believe other than the indoctrination you likely received in a public school?
It's ok, you can use a dictionary if you need to look up the big words.
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we became frightened, and we decided we needed rationality and simple peasant-level explanations. And thus, the real "Poof"! God and the world's vast multitude of conflicting and warlike religions suddenly arose.
