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So if I am worried or afraid and dont repent, I go to hell? If I dont clean my room like my parents said, I go to hell? Oh and I am being punished for a sin a guy did thousands of years ago, before I was even thought of? WOW, sorry but NONE of that seems like it is fair in anyway. And in reading the bible, with an open mind mind you, all I saw was, death, torture, abuse, slavery. If those are god's nature, you can forget it, he is not worthy of any worship. A true God would need none of that, or the ego trip.
No. As I said, and how could you fail to see it or comprehend it, your own personal sins were never imputed to you. That means you DO NOT GO TO HELL BECAUSE OF YOUR SINS. You end up in hell (actually hades) and then ultimately the eternal lake of fire for one reason only. Rejecting Christ as savior. As for "being punished for a sin a guy did thousands of years ago", go back and read again my previous posts and be objective. Or not.
As for the 'cruelty of God in the old Testament', God was growing the Hebrews into a nation in the land He had given them and was taking away from the current inhabitants. Those nations were worshiping false gods and idols. Demon possession and influence were rampant. God does have to prune parts of the human race from time to time when certain types of evil become to prevalent. This protects the rest of the human race. In some cases this involved killing every man, woman, and child of those nations in that land that the Hebrews had been given. The children by the way, who died before reaching the point mentally where they could conceive of the concept of a supreme being, were automatically saved. They are in the presence of God right now. God is harsh in His judgements and He need not apologize for exercising the demands of His righteousness. And He is not concerned with or interested in what we think about His actions concerning His judgements. Man does not judge infinite and eternal almighty God. We must adjust to the justice of God or the justice of God will roll right over us. You may not like it, but that is the reality of our existence. And yet, God treats us in grace. Otherwise we wouldn't around to talk about it. Gods love must operate within the framework of His justice and rightousness.
Regarding Gods 'ego trip' as you call it, in the interest of absolute truth, God recognizes His own perfection and His own glory. And He recognizes His right to act in accordance to His own will which always acts in accordance to His Holiness. His plan, His purpose, His will, will be carried out to completion regardless of man's approval or disapproval. God laughs at those who would mock Him or judge Him. But He always extends an invitation to accept the eternal life He offers you through one simple act of faith in Christ.
You end up in hell (actually hades) and then ultimately the eternal lake of fire for one reason only. Rejecting Christ as savior.
Here we go again with this. As a person of the Jewish faith, I have to ask you whether you believe I've got a ticket for an express ride to hell because I do not accept Jesus as my savior.
No. As I said, and how could you fail to see it or comprehend it, your own personal sins were never imputed to you. That means you DO NOT GO TO HELL BECAUSE OF YOUR SINS. You end up in hell (actually hades) and then ultimately the eternal lake of fire for one reason only. Rejecting Christ as savior. As for "being punished for a sin a guy did thousands of years ago", go back and read again my previous posts and be objective. Or not.
As for the 'cruelty of God in the old Testament', God was growing the Hebrews into a nation in the land He had given them and was taking away from the current inhabitants. Those nations were worshiping false gods and idols. Demon possession and influence were rampant. God does have to prune parts of the human race from time to time when certain types of evil become to prevalent. This protects the rest of the human race. In some cases this involved killing every man, woman, and child of those nations in that land that the Hebrews had been given. The children by the way, who died before reaching the point mentally where they could conceive of the concept of a supreme being, were automatically saved. They are in the presence of God right now. God is harsh in His judgements and He need not apologize for exercising the demands of His righteousness. And He is not concerned with or interested in what we think about His actions concerning His judgements. Man does not judge infinite and eternal almighty God. We must adjust to the justice of God or the justice of God will roll right over us. You may not like it, but that is the reality of our existence. And yet, God treats us in grace. Otherwise we wouldn't around to talk about it. Gods love must operate within the framework of His justice and rightousness.
Regarding Gods 'ego trip' as you call it, in the interest of absolute truth, God recognizes His own perfection and His own glory. And He recognizes His right to act in accordance to His own will which always acts in accordance to His Holiness. His plan, His purpose, His will, will be carried out to completion regardless of man's approval or disapproval. God laughs at those who would mock Him or judge Him. But He always extends an invitation to accept the eternal life He offers you through one simple act of faith in Christ.
And here we have more interpretation required to shape this response into what the writer wants to believe.
I agree with a previous comment: the more you have to interpret, the less likely that you got it right.
The Concept of "Origin Sin" goes back to the creation myth. According to the Myth, Adam and Eve were created from dust and placed in the Utopian Garden of Eden until Temptation forced them out. This is referred to as the "Original Sin"
Nowadays, we know through science that the Garden of Eden and the Creation are myths. Since There was no fall of man, there was no Garden of Eden, and there was no Original Sin, man does not exist in a fallen state and therefore NEEDS no salvation. Of course, Christianity teaches, or rather sells, otherwise.
Now remember this, early jews did not have this creation myth, it was "created" by jewish scribes under the rule of David, and propogated by Christian writers who wanted to make the character of Jesus into the Messiah. The concept of Hell really grew in the Middle ages as a "Scare Tactic" to convert people to Christianity, and it continues as such today.
Likewise, early Christians did not have an emphasis on Hell; the concept of the underworld existed in a few other religions, notably Egyptian, and it was the Egyptians who had this fascination of preparing in this life for the journey of the afterlife. Why is this significant? because Egyptians were occupied by Romans along side Jews, and the common disdain for ROme that existed in both races forced a union and a degree of sharing that allowed religious ideas to be fused. That is, of course, all religion is, a look at the evolution of one form of faith at the regression of another.
Today, as one Christian explained to me, "Because of Iriginal Sin, man fell out of God's Grace, and God requires a sacrifice and Jesus is that sacrifice" The idea of Sacrifice dates back as far as early pagan religions, when it was believed that spirits influenced everything frm the seasons to the rains to good hunting weather. IT was believed that a sacrifice would appease these spirits and thus provide for the tribe making the sacrifice. Today, we see the same thing in Christianity, only it is Jesus who was sacrificed. Jesus was, supposedly, God in the Flesh. iAgain the fallicy of this is "Why would God have to sacrifice himself to himself to change a law he made to begin with""
The fact remains, we don't NEED to be saved from some "Original Sin" .....because it never happened. We don't need to appease some fictional Old Testament God, because there is no such thing. But Christianity exists purely on this fallacy, and has for 200 years, used scare tactics, murder, torture, wars and intimidation to maintain it.
No. As I said, and how could you fail to see it or comprehend it, your own personal sins were never imputed to you. That means you DO NOT GO TO HELL BECAUSE OF YOUR SINS. You end up in hell (actually hades) and then ultimately the eternal lake of fire for one reason only. Rejecting Christ as savior. As for "being punished for a sin a guy did thousands of years ago", go back and read again my previous posts and be objective. Or not.
As for the 'cruelty of God in the old Testament', God was growing the Hebrews into a nation in the land He had given them and was taking away from the current inhabitants. Those nations were worshiping false gods and idols. Demon possession and influence were rampant. God does have to prune parts of the human race from time to time when certain types of evil become to prevalent. This protects the rest of the human race. In some cases this involved killing every man, woman, and child of those nations in that land that the Hebrews had been given. The children by the way, who died before reaching the point mentally where they could conceive of the concept of a supreme being, were automatically saved. They are in the presence of God right now. God is harsh in His judgements and He need not apologize for exercising the demands of His righteousness. And He is not concerned with or interested in what we think about His actions concerning His judgements. Man does not judge infinite and eternal almighty God. We must adjust to the justice of God or the justice of God will roll right over us. You may not like it, but that is the reality of our existence. And yet, God treats us in grace. Otherwise we wouldn't around to talk about it. Gods love must operate within the framework of His justice and rightousness.
Regarding Gods 'ego trip' as you call it, in the interest of absolute truth, God recognizes His own perfection and His own glory. And He recognizes His right to act in accordance to His own will which always acts in accordance to His Holiness. His plan, His purpose, His will, will be carried out to completion regardless of man's approval or disapproval. God laughs at those who would mock Him or judge Him. But He always extends an invitation to accept the eternal life He offers you through one simple act of faith in Christ.
More excuses for it. If you have to interpret something, you are probably wrong. You believe things written by men ( who are fallible) thousands of years ago, and you take it at it's word with absolutely NO EVIDENCE? Questions, why did God just show himself to just those people? Why not the entire world? Why nothing since? Why that time? Why so many contradictions in the bible ( an before you say there are none, it has already been shown to have MANY) Why is there nothing written anywhere else in ancient times in other civilizations about the events? Why would you follow a God, that is so into himself and cruel? Do you not think there are other ways to punish besides death and destruction? If you kids disobeyed you would you banish them to hell or kill them? I mean he claims we are his children. There is much famine and death and abuse in the world today of innocent people, why no help?
Just another quest that occurred to me for your god.
If he is the all powerful creator of all things, why did he not write his buybull in the languages of all people, instead of only in the language of the Mideast and Greek?
Did he not want others to know? Aren't we all supposed to be his children?
Just another quest that occurred to me for your god.
If he is the all powerful creator of all things, why did he not write his buybull in the languages of all people, instead of only in the language of the Mideast and Greek?
Did he not want others to know? Aren't we all supposed to be his children?
Probably because the writers did not know any other languages, and God forgot to give the ability to know and write the others to them, of course. LOL
Here we go again with this. As a person of the Jewish faith, I have to ask you whether you believe I've got a ticket for an express ride to hell because I do not accept Jesus as my savior.
The prophecy of Daniel 9:24-26 fixes the time of the death of the Messiah for the sins of the world. The Messiah would die before the destruction of the Jewish temple in Jerusalem. The temple was destroyed in 70 A.D. In order for this prophecy to be fulfilled, the Messiah that the Jews were waiting for had to have come and died before 70 A.D. Jesus Christ fulfilled that prophecy. He was crucified around 32 or 33 A.D. If Jesus was not the Messiah then that prophecy can never be fulfilled and that would make God a liar.
Look at Isaiah 48:16. Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.
This is Jesus Christ, the second person of the trinity, speaking. He is saying that he has been sent by God the Father, and by God the Holy Spirit. This is in Isaiah, the Old Testament. This is the trinity clearly spoken of in the Old Testament. God is one in essense but three in personality. In other words, three separate persons all with the same essense. Each one in and of himself is God. And all three together are God. NOT GODS. One God. This is Jesus Christ revealed in the Old Testament.
Jesus Christ is the Messiah that The Jews were waiting for. But when He came he was rejected because the Jews wanted physical deliverance from the Romans, and when it became clear that Christ was not going to provide that deliverance they rejected him. The Jews did not realize that Christ first had to provide for a spiritual deliverance by dying for the sins of the world, and then, if the Jews had not rejected him, he would have brought in the Millennium right after the cross. But since he was rejected, the Jews were temporarily set aside while Christ built his Church. After the Church, which is called the body of Christ, and will be known as the bride of Christ, is completed, then God will turn his attention back to the Jews. That will be the tribulation period.
So yes. To answer your question, you as a Jew has to believe in Christ for salvation. He is the Messiah that the Old Testament spoke of and He is present in and makes Himself known in the Old Testament.
No. As I said, and how could you fail to see it or comprehend it, your own personal sins were never imputed to you. That means you DO NOT GO TO HELL BECAUSE OF YOUR SINS. You end up in hell (actually hades) and then ultimately the eternal lake of fire for one reason only. Rejecting Christ as savior. As for "being punished for a sin a guy did thousands of years ago", go back and read again my previous posts and be objective. Or not.
Hades is a Greco-Roman theosophical construct and was not a place of punishment. Everyone went there after they died. There was no fire and brimstone either. If your going to attempt to prostylize, at least get your religious histories straight.
Also, isn't blowing off your Christ and Jehovah a "sin" in and of itself?
The sad thing is that you cannot see the clear theopolitical aspects of your statments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
As for the 'cruelty of God in the old Testament', God was growing the Hebrews into a nation in the land He had given them and was taking away from the current inhabitants. Those nations were worshiping false gods and idols. Demon possession and influence were rampant. God does have to prune parts of the human race from time to time when certain types of evil become to prevalent. This protects the rest of the human race. In some cases this involved killing every man, woman, and child of those nations in that land that the Hebrews had been given. The children by the way, who died before reaching the point mentally where they could conceive of the concept of a supreme being, were automatically saved. They are in the presence of God right now. God is harsh in His judgements and He need not apologize for exercising the demands of His righteousness. And He is not concerned with or interested in what we think about His actions concerning His judgements. Man does not judge infinite and eternal almighty God. We must adjust to the justice of God or the justice of God will roll right over us. You may not like it, but that is the reality of our existence. And yet, God treats us in grace. Otherwise we wouldn't around to talk about it. Gods love must operate within the framework of His justice and rightousness.
Or killing everything on the planet from kids to kittens in a great flood.
By all the gods of this world, I don't recall every seeing someone so easily and carelessly attempt to explain away, and dismiss, genocide.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
Regarding Gods 'ego trip' as you call it, in the interest of absolute truth, God recognizes His own perfection and His own glory. And He recognizes His right to act in accordance to His own will which always acts in accordance to His Holiness. His plan, His purpose, His will, will be carried out to completion regardless of man's approval or disapproval. God laughs at those who would mock Him or judge Him. But He always extends an invitation to accept the eternal life He offers you through one simple act of faith in Christ.
More theoplitical mumbo-jumbo meant to scare the masses into staying in the religion. To be frank, every time I see this garbage my inner reading dialogue vioce turns into an informercial...
"Want to aviod a never ending aftelife of hellfire, brimstones, and pitchforks in the tush? For one LOW price, you'll recieve a life of everlasting peace in the presence of our Lord God and his cool Son. Bask in the heavenly light in these special robes supplied to you... for one low price. These robes are not only super-soft and comfortable, their special properties allow the light of our Lord God to penetrate, and you what what Bob?"
"What mike?"
"No tan lines!!! Act right now, and for only one low price..."
"How low Mike"
"For this limited time offer, remember, no calls will be taken after the End Times, all this can be yours for the low, low price of..."
"How low Mike!"
"Only ONE smple act of Faith in our Lord Jesus Christ!!!"
*studeo audience applauds loudly and oh's and ahh's*
"Act now, and for NO additional cost, except $29.95 for shipping, we'll throw in these fine, quality wings, normally valued at the price of your soul..."
Hades is a Greco-Roman theosophical construct and was not a place of punishment. Everyone went there after they died. There was no fire and brimstone either. If your going to attempt to prostylize, at least get your religious histories straight.
Also, isn't blowing off your Christ and Jehovah a "sin" in and of itself?
Matthew 11:23...You shall descend to Hades;
Acts 2:27 Because Thou wilt not abandon my soul to Hades.
Revelation 1:18...I have the keys of death and Hades.
Revelation 20:14 And death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire.
There are other passages using Hades. The Hebrew word Sheol was translated by the Septuagent translators into the word Hades in the New Testament.
And yes. 'Blowing off Christ' is a sin. But if you ignore God once you're a believer, you are still saved. God will try to get your attention by imposing discipline as a parent disciplines a child, but He will never disown you.
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