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Old 12-25-2015, 07:59 PM
 
6,820 posts, read 3,867,159 times
Reputation: 15535

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjm1cc View Post
I would skip this and pay my own bills. No interest in helping you pay yours.
Having said that I would be very carefull. My guess is you will be placing all your assets in a non revocable trust and will have no ownership rights to the assets. A trustee will have to be named and the trustee will manage the assets per the terms of the trust. I do not know if you can be the trustee. I would think not. How much will the trustee charge? Be sure to have a method of changing trustees if you do not think they are doing a good job. Income in the trust will be subject to state and federal taxes separate from your return.

If you think you will go through with this I would get a second opinion from another attorney.
Why would she put it in a non revocable trust? I sure wouldn't. She can be the trustee. She can choose a trusted person to be trustee either temporarily or permanently if she becomes unable. Upon death and after her bills have been paid, the remaining assets are distributed according to the directions spelled out in the trust.

I do not know if a trust can be used to hide assets from medicaid. I very much doubt that it does, and I hope not.
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Old 12-25-2015, 08:03 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
551 posts, read 439,346 times
Reputation: 988
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clemencia53 View Post
Medicaid pays for nursing homes
Only if you have depleted almost all of your assets.
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Old 12-25-2015, 08:54 PM
 
6,321 posts, read 5,058,385 times
Reputation: 12831
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeutralZone View Post
Only if you have depleted almost all of your assets.
Well yes, but he said Medicare. If you qualify for Medicaid is another story.
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Old 12-26-2015, 12:00 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
551 posts, read 439,346 times
Reputation: 988
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clemencia53 View Post
Well yes, but he said Medicare. If you qualify for Medicaid is another story.
It is a common misconception that Medicare pays for nursing homes. When the time came for me to place my mom in a board and care home, every single person that I know was shocked that she had to pay 100% of it out of her own funds. Medicare does not pay for custodial care. With the average life span getting longer, and more and more people are living long enough that they are developing some form of dementia, the need for custodial care is huge and will only get bigger. How to pay for it will wipe out the life savings of many people.
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Old 12-26-2015, 12:14 AM
 
113 posts, read 168,667 times
Reputation: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
most states have no problem with legally shielding assets for medicaid . if they did they would increase look back periods and close the ability to have trusts shield assets if it was to much of a a burden . look backs were 3 years , then 5 years . they could easily make them 10,15 or 20 years .

as one now famous judge in CT said in a suit where medicaid was suing a ct resident , he refuses to allow the people of his state to be driven in to poverty because we have a poor system in place .

driving everyone who needs care in to poverty would crush the economy in states .

most states now offer LTC partnership plans sanctioning you and encouraging you to use the medicaid system . I BOUGHT SUCH A PLAN .

WE TOOK A MERE 3 YEARS INSURANCE AND NY AGREES TO NO SHIFTING OF ASSETS ., NO LOOK BACK PERIOD AND NO INCOME RESTRICTIONS ON THE STAY AT HOME SPOUSE .

they even have a special form of medicaid for this purpose .

most states offer partnership plans .

our income tax system is based on the fact your fair share of taxes is whatever you can legally figure out your share is , no matter how low you can get it . the same rules apply to the medicaid system and long term care ..

i used to have a very different view of medicaid and who it was for . but the more i learned i saw it was designed no different then our tax system . there are quite a few methods in place to be utilized but you need to be smart enough to use the methods that are there for for you , no different then our tax system ..
I plan to move from New York to an active retirement community in Arizona when I turn sixty-six years old in three years. Would I have to set up a new partnership plan with Arizona? When I told my banker (referencing my original post) I would wait till I got to Arizona before I considered setting up a trust to protect my assets should I have to go into a nursing home, she brought up the five year look back period dilemma.
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Old 12-26-2015, 03:06 AM
 
71,626 posts, read 71,751,865 times
Reputation: 49225
the problem with irrevocable trusts are by law you are limited to only all the gains and 5% of the principal a year . that is pretty restrictive . you can't make them whatever you want , they are written in stone as a max except for special situations arising .

the other problem with regular medicaid is it may be great you preserved a million bucks in assets . but if you have a stay at home spouse they are severely limited by medicaid rules what they can keep as income .

here in ny medicaid takes all income over 2990 a month .

there are no provisions because you live in manhattan vs somewhere rural upstate .
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Old 12-26-2015, 03:08 AM
 
71,626 posts, read 71,751,865 times
Reputation: 49225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harpaint View Post
Why would she put it in a non revocable trust? I sure wouldn't. She can be the trustee. She can choose a trusted person to be trustee either temporarily or permanently if she becomes unable. Upon death and after her bills have been paid, the remaining assets are distributed according to the directions spelled out in the trust.

I do not know if a trust can be used to hide assets from medicaid. I very much doubt that it does, and I hope not.
anything revocable is useless for a medicaid trust . if you retain control then all bets are off .

in the eyes of the law a irrevocable trust is like a different person . it is like giving your assets to uncle joe . who then is bound by law to allow you only so much access to it anymore as it is now someone else's money .

Last edited by mathjak107; 12-26-2015 at 03:22 AM..
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Old 12-26-2015, 03:22 AM
 
71,626 posts, read 71,751,865 times
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so what are the options you can legally use ?

depends on your state .

ny , floriada and CT now support the verdict of the high court in CT .

with the ruling that medicaid is not going to impoverish the people of CT , the judge ordered medicaid to find an acceptable amount of money mrs jones could pay without impacting her lifestyle as the stay at home spouse .

ny ,florida and ct have accepted these terms and negotiations are the big thing now for those smart enough to have well versed estate attorney or elder care attorney .

our estate attorney is the biggest in this field in ny/long island and he has had zero law suites since the ct ruling . all are negotiations . at one time his practice was denominated with medicaid recovery cases .

the problem is that income is still severely limited for that spouse that stys at home once medicaid picks up the bill . .


other states have not accepted the verdict as the general process .


you can use a method of loaning out money to save about 1./2 the assets . that is another popular legal method that works .


there are other methods too that can be used but each state is different . in all cases all the assets can't be saved and the income never saved .

for us the best deal was the nys partnership plan . the perks after the 3 years insurance runs out are what we really wanted , not the insurance so much .

as i said , i used to think folks who shielded assets were leeches on tax payers backs until i got a good education from our attorney to realize these methods are left in place for a reason .

if you are smart enough to utilize the tools the states give you , like our tax system they are there to reduce your burden .

the last things states want is a population of impoverished seniors .

Last edited by mathjak107; 12-26-2015 at 03:31 AM..
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Old 12-26-2015, 06:17 AM
 
Location: Proxima Centauri
4,824 posts, read 1,989,023 times
Reputation: 5262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blanco111 View Post
In a couple of weeks I will be meeting with an estate attorney to discuss setting up a trust to protect my "estate" should I need to go into an assisted living arrangement. (I'm 63 and perfectly healthy.) The purpose is to have medicare pay for my assisted living, and I wouldn't have to deplete all my assets first to qualify. An investor I work with suggested I do this. She said the asset protection takes effect in five years from the date the trust is completed. The estate attorney charges about $2,000 to set up the trust. The initial consultation is free. Does anyone know anything about this? I once heard there's insurance you can purchase to protect your assets, but that's not what this is.
I've looked into it. Do you have a child that you trust completely? This trusted person would manage the estate. I looked up your zip code and you are not in Florida. In Florida there is what is called a homestead exemption. This exemption is not applicable to trusts. I know an attorney in New York who says that the five year look back is correct.

This attorney is motivated to set up the trust for you because of the fees involved. Make sure that he or she is willing to discuss any down side to this venture.
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Old 12-26-2015, 06:54 AM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 18,978,143 times
Reputation: 15649
Quote:
Originally Posted by N.Cal View Post
You are probably guessing wrong. A recovable living trust allows YOU to maintain control. I plan to put my house into one in the next year. A good T&E attorney (trusts and estates) will explain all the various options. I would NOT go to a general practice attorney.
I agree. An estate attorney will also explain "Medicaid planning" through creating an Irrevocable Trust, with different options under that umbrella. Irrevocable is generally for the wealthy, and an estate atty wlll explain in detail. If it's primarily a home and some assets, Revocable works for many, as it can be changed or revoked by the owner (grantor). Do not go to just any atty, because the Irrevocable is as its name says.
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