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This mentality is the problem. This is not the solution. The rest of labor should be fighting to move back to pensions, not worsen the system of other's to align with their crappy system. There is plenty of money out there, plenty of wealth, these changes over the past 30-40 have just benefitted the ultra wealthy. The working classes need to stop tearing town each other and work to build each other up.
I don't know anyone who worked in the private sector without some governmental ties who received a pension. I know a few folks who received pensions - worked at a private college and for PEF which is a union and deals with all kinds of governmental employees. Oh and my uncle who currently works for the post office, but that also have governmental ties. I know of no one else who had a job in a private company that collected a pension and I'm going way back - over 20 years.
Telling employers or demanding that they give you a pension is a fast way to the unemployment line. They're in business to make money not to make employees happy and have sweet retirement packages.
5 guys standing around and 1 guy working. You don't see that in private industry, you have to produce or else.
You know you can get one of those fat government jobs too, right? Maybe you are over the age limit. Maybe you are not a slacker and could never see yourself working for them. Maybe you have a conscience and don't want to be a part of the system that you despise. Or maybe you are just an overburdened taxpayer who is fed up with paying for public employees' lavish lifestyles. But it doesn't matter what your circumstances are. Just get a government job or shut up. You have no right to complain as a taxpayer.
One of these jobs would do nicely. Hell, any on these lists would do nicely. Pay attention to the last column: Total pay and benefits.
Life's about choices.... I'm not going to feel guilty about my pension when I think about all the nights I had to work 12 am -8am leaving my wife and kids home alone. All the holidays I missed because I was forced to work while others sat home opening gifts on Christmas morning. The multiple injuries I've incurred doing my job. Nope, no guilt here at all. I took a job that many many others would scoff at, or couldn't physically do.
Plenty of people in private employment do the same thing every day. No one gave them a medal or a chest to pin it on. They're not bragging about how great they are either.
That is only is their supervisors or managers do not do their job. Firing or disciplining employees in most large organizations involve managers doing their job. There is really no structural impediment to following the contract.
Here is some examples of reasons employees who should have been fired but were not that I have seen-
Supervisor- tells HR employee has been a terrible performer for years. HR pulls 4 years of evaluations and the employee was rated outstanding.
Employee is late every day. HR finds out 1/2 the staff comes in late but supervisor allows it because he feels they are good workers and only want sto discipline this employee. Actually that supervisor got a written warning.
I can go on and on.
I have seen at least 40 employees fired or resign just before being fired when the boss did their job right.
If a supervisor is the only one responsible then he should get all the bonuses and pay increases. Yes he must do his job if he does not in private sector he is fired. Employees get fired too for the reasons I cited. You make a great case for what a fantasy world you live in. I assume this is only your flaw not every civil employee.
I don't know anyone who worked in the private sector without some governmental ties who received a pension. I know a few folks who received pensions - worked at a private college and for PEF which is a union and deals with all kinds of governmental employees. Oh and my uncle who currently works for the post office, but that also have governmental ties. I know of no one else who had a job in a private company that collected a pension and I'm going way back - over 20 years.
Telling employers or demanding that they give you a pension is a fast way to the unemployment line. They're in business to make money not to make employees happy and have sweet retirement packages.
I am almost 60, and have never worked in the public sector, only private, and can tell that up until about 2008, all new hires were eligible for a pension in most electric utilities and gas companies, many multinationals like Honeywell, and a lot of AE firms as well. No government ties at all. My oldest friend retired from Honeywell last year, with a good pension at 57, as will I, at 62, and many I know. Yes, for sure, that DB is gone, now, but it was very much alive 10 years ago. When they dropped it at my company, it was not unexpected, but the company made a big deal of pointing out that it was not because of cost cutting, it was because new young hires had NO interest in a pension. They want a higher salary and better 401k match, which is a portable benefit, which they actually did get, because no successful young person expects to stay at the same company for 30 years. Salary and raises have a factor of when you were hired in them now.
Just saying its not all corporate greed. A lot is employee short sighted greed, IMHO.
You know you can get one of those fat government jobs too, right? Maybe you are over the age limit. Maybe you are not a slacker and could never see yourself working for them. Maybe you have a conscience and don't want to be a part of the system that you despise. Or maybe you are just an overburdened taxpayer who is fed up with paying for public employees' lavish lifestyles. But it doesn't matter what your circumstances are. Just get a government job or shut up. You have no right to complain as a taxpayer.
One of these jobs would do nicely. Hell, any on these lists would do nicely. Pay attention to the last column: Total pay and benefits.
Have you tried to sort that last column from smallest to largest?
Are you willing to take a bullet or work in a jail or fight a fire in 100 degree weather or get a medical degree or two to get your paycheck and benefits? If one of those people come to your house to save you go ahead and tell them what you think...
Last edited by Vic Romano; 09-03-2017 at 11:27 PM..
Life's about choices.... I'm not going to feel guilty about my pension when I think about all the nights I had to work 12 am -8am leaving my wife and kids home alone. All the holidays I missed because I was forced to work while others sat home opening gifts on Christmas morning. The multiple injuries I've incurred doing my job. Nope, no guilt here at all. I took a job that many many others would scoff at, or couldn't physically do.
I'm not saying that to rub it in. I'm saying that to say I feel extremely blessed to have what I have. But it certainly isn't a hand out. As others have stated, it's a job that was available to anyone who applied.
Tongue in cheek moment here.... "isn't that what socialism is all about? Getting on the govt gravy train? Being taken care of from the cradle to the grave?"
Oh really?
Have you ever worked Retail? In retail, you MIGHT get lucky to have your store closed ON Christmas day, or part there of, BUT, you are required to work up to the day before and definitely it's all employees on deck the day/ week after Christmas.
Thanks Giving? Maybe the same, BUT: you Will work the day and weekend after while some government employees are off. Now stores are vying for that TG dollar, so are open ON TG day.
Holidays in general, except those two, you ARE working on the holiday. Guaranteed.
Same for restaurants. People out shopping NEED to eat top.
Here's another thing , I'll bet you got breaks, paid or unpaid. Restaurants and hotels many don't get breaks, have to go to the bathroom quickly if you have "down Time", or go without until your shift is over. But you are, when even down time is at hand, on the job for anything that comes up. You do not get to tell people you won't wait on them because"I'm on break".
Retail? Physical jobs? Who do you think unloaded the trucks filled with that merchandise you buy with your fat govt job? Who do you think is required to "regularly lift 50#"? As cases can weigh that OR MORE. Who do you think is to do or how with a carry out for of you can't or don't feel like lifting it? Something like a household generator weighs 600-800#, lifted to your vehicle by only TWO employees.
Even "cash and carry "outlets have to unload, haul to display, unpack and stock the merchandise.
So physical requirements, little to no time off, working holidays, no breaks, little pay ( usually all minimum wage based, even management is not to far above minimum wage), little to no holidays off , little to no paid vacation, no pension or JOKE " matching funds" to a 401k ( try $0.03 per dollar up to the first 3% of your pay) IF you get a 401k., No weekends off. No " personal days" off with pay, NO PENSION. Nights and weekends are usually required.
Local state fed jobs all pay well above minimum, some have to work, like police DO have to work, and sometimes are all employees on deck, but vast majority get weekend off, holiday off, good paid vacation, personal days off to attend to personal things, good lunch breaks, PENSIONS. And the list goes on and on.
And we'd be OVER LOADED with government, NOT everyone can have a govt job or qualify for one.
The Air Force wouldn't take me, because I use an inhaler for asthma. I don't qualify for lots of government jobs for other reasons. Or haven't gotten hired for ones whose tests I can easily pass. And they don't tell me why.
Think about that the next time you go grocery shopping, retail shopping, home improvement shopping and eat out. That person behind the register, stocking the shelves, doing your carry out, waiting on you or cooking your food ISN'T making enough to even SAVE for retirement, let alone get a penny for pension, regardless of whether it's " exactly", " only 75%,", "only 48%" of their pay when they do retire. They don't even get a gold watch for years of service, and are subject to being fired at any time, for cause or without cause, get laud off or cut back during low season, and are often just as "overworked" as govt employees and teachers claim to be.
If a supervisor is the only one responsible then he should get all the bonuses and pay increases. Yes he must do his job if he does not in private sector he is fired. Employees get fired too for the reasons I cited. You make a great case for what a fantasy world you live in. I assume this is only your flaw not every civil employee.
You are digging one very deep hole.
Digging no hole. People get fired when bosses do their job. That happens in large bureaucracies both private and public.
I have seen plenty of people fired where I work. And there are plenty of large private organizations where bad employees stay employed
As I stated in my original post, earnings on contributions will be minimal.
No they are not.
Are you familiar with the rule of 72. Money doubles at increments of the rate of return divided into 72.
So if your pension earned 8% which over 30 years most pension funds did your money doubles every 9 years.
So your 2 to 3 years of contributions is significantly greater based on that.
For the period I have been employed my pension fund earned 8.85% so my contributions doubled almost every 8 years
The getting your contributions back canard is misleading. It does not indicate how investing works.
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