Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Southbound glad you understood that things are not always as what some people say they are. Thanks. There were invaders who came to this island over many years. Even those who now call themselves Irish could have been invaders.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,706,106 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulsterman
Southbound glad you understood that things are not always as what some people say they are. Thanks. There were invaders who came to this island over many years. Even those who now call themselves Irish could have been invaders.
Thank you for taking the time to spell the history out, Ulsterman. I've very carefully read the history of the plantation. It always seemed a bit odd that the crown only got the one portion of Ireland, and the Irish didn't just move on to another area of Ireland. Then after the results of the DNA tests for my mother's surname started coming in and it didn't fit with the 2 Gaelic surnames that it was being tested with, someone sent us a list, either a census or a rent list, from the late 1600s to see if anyone could figure out what name or names might be the surname in question. We found a few spellings but couldn't make a determination since none of us knew anything about Gaelic to figure out how pronunciation would effect misspellings.
What was obvious in the list, though, was that the people on it were Irish, Scottish (both Highlanders and Lowlanders) and English, inspite of the royal decree that the plantations were to be made by Lowlanders and northern English only. Then, later, I found a family of my Quaker ancestors in County Antrim, as a founding portion of a Quaker meetinghouse. That didn't fit with the religious requirements of Anglican or Presbyterian.
I think, based on what you posted, all of the things that didn't seem to fit do sort of fit with what had come before.
Thank you for taking the time to spell the history out, Ulsterman. I've very carefully read the history of the plantation. It always seemed a bit odd that the crown only got the one portion of Ireland, and the Irish didn't just move on to another area of Ireland. Then after the results of the DNA tests for my mother's surname started coming in and it didn't fit with the 2 Gaelic surnames that it was being tested with, someone sent us a list, either a census or a rent list, from the late 1600s to see if anyone could figure out what name or names might be the surname in question. We found a few spellings but couldn't make a determination since none of us knew anything about Gaelic to figure out how pronunciation would effect misspellings.
What was obvious in the list, though, was that the people on it were Irish, Scottish (both Highlanders and Lowlanders) and English, inspite of the royal decree that the plantations were to be made by Lowlanders and northern English only. Then, later, I found a family of my Quaker ancestors in County Antrim, as a founding portion of a Quaker meetinghouse. That didn't fit with the religious requirements of Anglican or Presbyterian.
I think, based on what you posted, all of the things that didn't seem to fit do sort of fit with what had come before.
Of course the Crown had jurisdiction over most of the island at one time and Dublin City was 68% Protestant but the different Protestant churches including Quakers were always a minority on the island.
Yes, there were Highlanders in Ireland before the Reformation and the east coast of Ulster and the west coast of Scotland were one unit. It was only later that they split.
There is a poem called The Homecoming which has the plantation people returning to where they originally came from. Twelve miles of water between Ulster and Scotland at one point so there was a lot of coming and going taking place over the years
There is a long history of Ulster at war with those in the south. Congal Claen and the Battle of Moira is but one of them. Southbound I'm not au fait with the Gaelic language either and even when the IFS was formed there were different words used in different parts of the island. It took de Valera and others to bring them together and thrash out these differences and this is what happened. it was followed by the printing of a dictionary with the all the words agreed on.
Ulsterman, the main reason that I remember this incident distinctly was because the individual intended to involve Philadelphia and therefore there were repeated announcements made in the local media, emphasizing the illegality of it. As I've said before, 2 of my coworkers were of Irish extraction. One was half Irish, on his mother's side and was quite worked up about it. The other was the son of Irish immigrants. He was much more moderate. Somehow, they were able to preserve their decades long friendship.
I remember Gerry Adams name coming into that news story, but whether the man who was picked up was connected to Adams or was Adams, I don't remember. I do remember that the man was in custody for a long time.(long enough that the media eventually got tired of it and started losing interest).
I know you cannot access this type of video via your data restricted phone (I am starting to remember it more often with your ID), but why not watch this video of Adams when you have Wifi, or on your computer/TV.
Then give an honest account of his demeanor, intelligence, sincerity, and debate skills.
He is often made out to be the boogie man in British circles, but you might find he is different from what some portray him as.
Keep in mind this was about 4 years before he helped bring about the Good Friday Agreement, thus was leading Sinn Fein when they were politically aligned with the IRA.
I know you cannot access this type of video via your data restricted phone (I am starting to remember it more often with your ID), but why not watch this video of Adams when you have Wifi, or on your computer/TV.
Then give an honest account of his demeanor, intelligence, sincerity, and debate skills.
He is often made out to be the boogie man in British circles, but you might find he is different from what some portray him as.
Keep in mind this was about 4 years before he helped bring about the Good Friday Agreement, thus was leading Sinn Fein when they were politically aligned with the IRA.
`
He's not a boogie man.
He's a terrorist personally responsible for the deaths of many innocent men,women and children.
And if you imagine he is anything else you're a gullible fool.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,706,106 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1
I know you cannot access this type of video via your data restricted phone (I am starting to remember it more often with your ID), but why not watch this video of Adams when you have Wifi, or on your computer/TV.
Then give an honest account of his demeanor, intelligence, sincerity, and debate skills.
He is often made out to be the boogie man in British circles, but you might find he is different from what some portray him as.
Keep in mind this was about 4 years before he helped bring about the Good Friday Agreement, thus was leading Sinn Fein when they were politically aligned with the IRA.
`
I'll look at it within a couple of days.
I remember the duration of "The Troubles" from late teenager to adult. It was terrible, and I was not there.
The IRA was a bunch of murderers, not one bit better than Charles Manson and his troupe of weirdos, only it ground on for years, day after day.
This is just my opinion, but to not hold their feet to the flames escapes me. It's like the people who hold Bonnie and Clyde or the James Gang in high regard instead of the common criminal murderers that they were.
BLOODY FRIDAY Bombs in Belfast City
Brendan Hughes... ' Well I was one of the key figures involved in organising ' Bloody Friday '. It wasn't directly my decision to do it but I was the person who organised it. I was the operational commander of the ' Bloody Friday ' operation '
But I'm certainly not going to stand up an deny it. And to hear people who I would have died for - and almost did on a few occasions - stand up and deny the part in history that he has played, the part in the war that he has played, the part in the war that he directed, and deny it, is totally disgusting and a disgrace to all the people who have died.
It wouldn't be long before Gerry Adams was the de jure IRA Commander in Belfast.
In later years, not long after the formal beginning of the peace process, 1972 would be remembered for a more notorious reason. That was the year in which the IRA began 'disappearing' people it had killed. The IRA has admitted killing nine people and burying them in secret graves between 1972 and 1978
In the hierarchy of the disappeared carried out by the Belfast IRA during this time was that of Jean McConville, who went to her secret grave sometime in December 1972. The disappearance of Jean McConville has assumed such a dark status because of her wretched circumstances. She was a widow struggling by herself to bring up ten children, the oldest a sick, hospitalised daughter of twenty, who herself died not long after her mother's disappearance, and the youngest six-year-old twin boys. Jean McConville was a Protestant who had married a Catholic and converted to his religion.
Gerry Adams had by this stage become enmeshed in the Jean McConville saga, formally by virtue of the fact that at the time of her disappearance he was Brigade Commander of the IRA
Adams met McConville's daughter Helen and her husband, Seamu McKendry, in 2000 and denied all knowledge to them of her disappearance. During one exchange with McKendry, Adams told the couple that he could not have ben involved as he had been interned at the time. According to McKendry, ' He told Helen and I: ' Thank God I was in prison when she disappeared. '' In fact Adams was very much at large when Jean McConville was abducted and was not arrested and interned until July 1973, more than six months after her death
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,706,106 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulsterman
Of course the Crown had jurisdiction over most of the island at one time and Dublin City was 68% Protestant but the different Protestant churches including Quakers were always a minority on the island.
Yes, there were Highlanders in Ireland before the Reformation and the east coast of Ulster and the west coast of Scotland were one unit. It was only later that they split.
There is a poem called The Homecoming which has the plantation people returning to where they originally came from. Twelve miles of water between Ulster and Scotland at one point so there was a lot of coming and going taking place over the years
There is a long history of Ulster at war with those in the south. Congal Claen and the Battle of Moira is but one of them. Southbound I'm not au fait with the Gaelic language either and even when the IFS was formed there were different words used in different parts of the island. It took de Valera and others to bring them together and thrash out these differences and this is what happened. it was followed by the printing of a dictionary with the all the words agreed on.
I totally understand what you're saying about non-standard language. I deal with that with my immigrant grandfather's family on the continent, but the records are intact except for one generation. The difference with the Scotch-Irish is that the records are so spotty, especially in the colonies, and for various reasons, the name may have changed.
The "Irish" name and "Scottish" name that I've mentioned are a perfect example of what you are saying about the east coast of Ulster and the west coast of Scotland being one. When DNA tested, it was discovered that they are the same family.
Last edited by southbound_295; 06-09-2019 at 04:08 PM..
He's not a boogie man.
He's a terrorist personally responsible for the deaths of many innocent men,women and children.
And if you imagine he is anything else you're a gullible fool.
I see, so everyone who claims to have been a IRA member is to be believed, but those who deny membership are always lying?
I suppose even the ones eventually proved to have been falsely convicted, were believed to have been members when arrested by people such as yourself.
Did you and others ever apologize to those proved to be innocent, or just turned the page to a new chapter of accusations without evidence?
As to Adams specifically, please provide proof of your claims, as to the best of my research there is no evidence he was ever a member of the IRA.
He obviously has denied it for decades without waver.
Martin McGuinness obviously yes, the female SF member you recently made sexist comments about, yes again.
But Adams, this ought to be interesting.
How anyone of alleged sense can view Adams as some kind of routine and balanced politician is beyond any thought of being using the grey cells rightly is head shaking. Sinn Fein could not really care a proverbial damn about whether for example Stormont exists or not. So head banged into so-called unity is all they care about and as democratic as me a strong Glaswegian wanting to live in competing Edinburgh. That so many people support that political mob is disgusting and not very properly democratic or sensible.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
