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One thing that worries me about the EU debate is that the bulk of the 'outers' are Tories, and I'm instinctively suspicious of anything the Tories advocate.
In turn that makes me wonder if we'd be better or worse off under an unshackled Tory government if we do leave.
We often complain about being tied to EU legislation but is some of that legislation an advantage to the ordinary working man?
Frankly I've no idea. Any thoughts?
Stay in EU will be better for United Kimdom in my opinion especially for economic which is mostly depend on needs, and needs will be on the demand of people. Without limits, people will be able to go shopping and comsumption easier Which would definetly good to economic.
Well, the campaign is drawing to a close........ the last gasp of pro and con will fill our telly screens today. It's been interesting to say the least.
I have had a lot of fun in this UK outpost.......... in both threads which concentrated on the EU. We have had opinions from a broad spectrum. What will be, will be.
I have explained as well as my limited vocabulary will allow me, my reasons for wishing to leave. I am not a little Englander yearning for a rose tinted past as some here seem to think. My thoughts are only of the future.
I do understand business is the bedrock of the standard of living in this country. I do hear the majority of business leaders, and politicians wishing to remain in the EU. That doesn't mean they're right about the long term direction this country needs to take.
We are still up to our necks in debt from the financial crash of 2008. All the bankers and their cronies who brought disaster on us. Not a one jailed, and many quietly now back in high position. I remember George Bush in his last gasp as President, coming on tv begging for support for the crooks who brought us to our knees. Countries like Greece and Ireland struggling to avoid going under.
I used to watch high flying workers from the city in London. They would wave their massive bonus cheques at the tv cameras, with big grins on their faces. "I wonder where all that money has come from?" I thought. Well, now we know......... it came from us.
I remember Norman Lamont insisting the best place for Britain was within the ERM. Well, he was wrong, and he had to make a humiliating speech on Black Wednesday withdrawing us from it. Guess who was a young adviser to Lamont in 1992? Why, David Cameron, our Prime Minister. The same man pathetically urging voters to think of their children and grandchildren yesterday.
I look at the sheer greed and selfishness of the London elite. Not a thought for anybody else, or even beyond how much their properties are worth. The driving out of London of true Londoners. As far as this elite is concerned, all in the garden is rosy. Well it's not. These people see through a glass darkly.
The number one concern of the people of this country is immigration. Not the fears of decades ago of the different.......... now it is the fear of being unable to pay soaring rents, and owning a house of their own being just a dream. Continuing mass immigration will only make things even worse. There is no sign of a slow down, and if anything it's increasing.
Eventually, without house building on a massive scale, we will end up with shanty towns. Similar to what is found in South America. There, the rich literally look out of their fancy tower block apartments, at the poverty stricken hordes in corrugated metal huts below them. You laugh? What do you think will happen different to this prediction if we continue with immigration on this scale? Without new homes being built by the million? There are already instances of immigrants in the south of England, paying massive rents to live in wooden sheds at the bottom of house owners gardens.
How long then before civil war? The have nots against the elite? Oh, the government and their police force will try to protect the rich........ they always do. Is this a future I want to see? It is not. Leaving the EU may be a big financial mistake - only time will tell. We have no choice....... the EU elite refuse to address our legitimate fears. They refuse to listen. Of course we're better within a large bloc which is looking out for the interests of it's people....... but they are not.
I'll finish with Edward R Murrow's last words as he broadcast to America from London during the Second World War........ 'Good night.......... and good luck.'
I'm a rank amateur on economic and political matters as will soon be revealed by my comments so please excuse my speculative remarks. I'm just curious - with Brexit being seriously considered, what would Brits think if the U.S. petitioned to join the commonwealth and push for a visa-free and free trade zone in all former colonies? Would you be open to the idea? Frankly I think after the initial pause for reflection this would be an easy sell in the U.S. We far prefer you to the continentals whom we don't really understand anyways. It would be nice to not have to bother with the EU so much. It would also be nice to have the option to move to Canada should Donald Trump get elected. What do you think? Would a closer union to the U.S. be something the UK is open to?
This is an interesting concept. Basically your suggesting an EU for the Anglosphere. Britain, North America (both US and Canada) and then add Australia and New Zealand. I guess the immigration thing would not be as much of an issue with such common cultures, but in all the nations of the former empire some would raise the issue of the loss of sovereignty. This really makes this an unlikely scenario, but you never know. It is obvious though to see the potential benefits of such an arrangement, if it came to exist no doubt it would be the greatest economic power on earth. The UK may have to go for switching to dollars though. The US, Canada and Australia all call their currency the dollar so I guess that would be the winner. I wonder if the UK citizenry would feel more comfortable in this type of arrangement with its former colonies rather than the European nations? Would the common culture, language and history help make this arrangement work?? I can see how it could. I do think the rest of the world would be terrified at the idea of any type of union of the Anglo nations. What we really are talking about is a semi reuniting of the old British empire, and a resurgence of all its power and influence. No doubt much of Europe, Russia and China would all balk at this idea.
On the American side of the pond we are curious to see if you Brits check out of the EU. I can understand why a British citizen may want out, however I can also see the argument for staying in. This is a major event, one in which the future of the EU may be determined. The EU will have a tough road ahead of it without the UK. The value of the EU is the stability it gives all of Europe, both economically and politically. If I were a voter in the UK I would see it as a tough decision.
Like who? The Poles and Bulgarians may go to any country, they just happen to prefer England.
Some member countries have tacked 'Transitional Arrangements' onto the respective accession treaty, that restricts the free movement of people from new EU member countries for reasons of employment.
It's been a common practice since 2005.
Here's some detail of the tranistional arrangements for Bulgaria and Romania, and Croatia.
Note that the duration for these arrangments have now elapsed, at least for Bulgaria and Romania.
Not so Croatia.
A process still exists whereby a member state can inform the Commission of their intention to continue with the below restrictions.
(this is from an Irish POV from an Irish website):
Bulgaria and Romania
Bulgaria and Romania joined the EU on 1 January 2007. The transitional arrangements in relation to free movement of workers which applied to them are as follows: From 1 January 2007 to 1 January 2009
The existing member states (including the 10 that joined in 2004) may decide to apply restrictions on free movement. They did not have to notify the Commission of their intention to do so. Ireland decided to impose such restrictions. This means that citizens of Bulgaria and Romania were subject to the employment permit requirements which applied before they joined the EU. However, those who had been working in Ireland on a employment permit for a continuous period of 12 months or more prior to 31 December 2006 did not need a employment permit. No new legislation was required as the Employment Permits Act 2006 gives the Government the option of allowing full free movement or requiring employment permits. Workers from the 2 countries had preference over people from non-EEA member states. From 1 January 2009 to 1 January 2012
Towards the end of 2008, the Commission reviewed the operation of the free movement rules. Member states had to notify the Commission of their intentions in respect of free movement for the 3 years until the end of 2011 – they could continue restrictions or could remove them. Ireland decided to continue the restrictions until the end of 2011. From 1 January 2012 to 1 January 2014
Full free movement should have applied from 2012. There is a provision however whereby an original member state may ask the Commission to continue restrictions for a further 2 years if it is experiencing serious disturbances in its labour market. In December 2011 Ireland decided to maintain the current restrictions on Bulgarians and Romanians until 31 December 2013. However on 17 July 2012 the Irish Government decided to end restrictions on Bulgarians and Romanians accessing the Irish labour market with effect from 1 January 2012.
There is complete freedom of movement from 2014 for Bulgaria and Romania, which joined in 2007. Croatia
Croatia joined the EU on 1 July 2013. The transitional arrangements in relation to free movement of workers that apply to Croatia are as follows: From 1 July 2013 to 1 July 2015
EU member states could choose to restrict the right of Croatian nationals to work in their country or in particular sectors. Ireland decided to allow full free movement. From 1 July 2015
The EU member states will be still allowed to maintain some restrictions on the free movement of workers. This transitional arrangement should in principle come to an end after 5 years but there is a provision whereby an original member state can ask the Commission to continue restrictions for a further 2 years if it was experiencing serious disturbances in its labour market. From 1 July 2020
There will be complete freedom of movement from 2020 for Croatia, which joined in 2013.
Book, copyright 2014. The Accidental Superpower by Peter Zeihan
Interesting discussion of geopolitics, demographics, resources, the strengths and weaknesses of different countries.
Chapter 7 The Rise of Shale
This chapter indicates that the USA is poised to extract abundant energy from shale (fracking).
I read that book. The basic premise is that due coming upheaval the US will be fine, but the rest of the world is screwed. Some of the arguments made seem to hold some water, but others are just fanciful.
The author used to be a StratFor employee. That alone for me, is the kiss of death.
Some poor deluded fool actually paid for a full page newspaper ad today, asking why can't we cope with 0.5% population growth p.a.
He failed to understand that in just 10yrs that would mean 3.5 million people. Or about 3.5 Birminghams if you prefer.
In just 20yrs that would grow to about 1x London.
Where exactly are we going to put those people? And who is going to pay for the gigantic amounts of infrastructure required to support and service that many people?
One thing's for certain, it won't come from the meagre tax contributions of the typical migrant.
The only hope Britain has is to vote to leave the EU. I just hope that enough people have been persuaded over the last few months.
Because we're not going to see another chance in my lifetime. It's now or never. Come on Britain, do the right thing tomorrow. Vote to save your country. Please.
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