[arel]

Many posts on this forum have said, and emphatically, too, that one should not move to Vermont unless one already has a job lined up.

But I have found that potential employers in Vermont want me to move up before they will seriously consider me. At least one potential employer in Vermont has expressed an enthusiastic interest, but said I should contact them once I moved up.

So it looks like I can't get a job unless I move first. Yet I should not move unless I have a job first.

Moving up and then looking for work may be a lot simpler than job hunting from a distance, but it is much riskier, especially in a place like Vermont.

I know people get jobs long distance, with the understanding that they need time to move, but I really don't understand how the process is negotiated.

When you accept a job you set a start date. But with relocating, there are so many unknowns related to time. I don't know how long it would take to sell my house. I don't know how long it will take to get an apartment that will accept 5 cats. If I buy a building with apartment units, I don't know how long it will take before I can move in. (But I don't want to buy unless I know I want to stay in the area!) I don't know how long it will take to pack up and move.

I've been told that, when you sell your house, you should look for new place while the house is in contract, and you also also stipulate that the sale is "contingent upon owner's finding suitable housing". So that pretty much covers housing. You don't have to waste money paying for a new place prematurely, and you don't have to worry about not having a place.

But how do you work it when seeking a a job in a new location? And seeking one in Vermont, of all places? In the past, I would have moved up and then looked for a job. But I don't want to risk that in Vermont.

Here are the things I imagine people do, some of which I think are too risky and/or unrealistic:

1) Move up and then look for a job. Take whatever is available, at least at first. Work several low paying jobs until you find something you like.
2) Move up with some money (from the sale of a house, from savings, etc.) and live on that while you look for a job, build a business, etc.
3) Have a job lined up before you move, with the understanding that you cannot start until you sell, move and find a new place. (Not too realistic.)
4) Have a job lined up with a start date. Put stuff in storage in Vermont. If you have to, give the realtor the key and move out even before the house is sold. If you need to, borrow money for expenses until the house is sold.
5) Have a job lined up, with a start date. Move up, leaving your family behind. Your spouse will finish with the house and join you.
6) Have a job lined up, with a start date. Rush the sale of your house, taking less money than you could in order to sell faster.
7) Wait until the house sale closes. While you are preparing for the Big Move, also look for a job.
8) Get the house ready for sale. Get it on the market. Get rid of all the stuff you won't be taking so moving will be free of the work you can do prior to the move. So you will have little to do during contract time and after closing other than look for a job in the new location.
9) Accept a new job. Arrange for sufficient time before starting work to do what you need to do to relocate. Plan what you can do if you can't sell and/or can't find a new place to live in that time. For example, put stuff in storage in town. Stay with friends in town. Rent a room. Board cats if absolutely necessary. And so on. I think this and #2 are the most realistic options, but #2 is a little risky.
10) I just thought of this, but it seems so obvious. When you inquire about a job, let the potential employer know that you will not be available until a certain date. Let the employer know that you are in the process of relocating. If you are still in the planning stage, let the employer know that, too, with the time frame, assuming there is one. The employer will not be interested if you "may" be moving to town, but will be interested if he/she knows you will be in the area by a certain date. Of course, this ignores the issue of needing a job in order to choose that particular area.

In summary, I know people get jobs from a distance all the time, even when a house has to be sold and new housing obtained in the new location. I just don't know how the process of accept new job, sell, move and start new job is negotiated. I'm sure there are simple and accepted things that are done, since they are done all the time.

I know that many jobs, or at least some, offer relocation assistance. But these are corporate jobs and/or big professional jobs. I am a professional, but I can't imagine employers in my field offering such assistance.

Also, I also know that my situation is further complicated by the presence of 5 cats. (No, giving them up is not an option.) Finding a rental will be hard. But buying might commit me to the area prematurely. I suppose I could buy rental property and move into one of the units. As the landlord, I will allow myself to keep the cats. And if I want to move and can't or don't want to sell, I can rent out my unit and go, collecting rental income monthly.

I'm sure there are answers to all of these issues. They have been addressed by anyone who has relocated for a job, or who has relocated and has needed a job.

I hope this post has made sense. I'm tired.

Those of you with experience in these matters: Pease advise me!

[Groilent Seen]

Arel,

I'm in the same boat as you. I'm most likely not moving up until next fall but I need money to move in. Should I just work a bunch of temp jobs until then? I ask that because what employer would hire me knowing that I'm leaving in about a year? It's like, I need a job to move up but I need to be in my desired area for awhile to get a job there too.

[arel]

You responded to my post while I was editing it.

I don't know the answers to these questions. I'm sure there are many answers. I don't think there is a one-size-fits-all approach.

Bearing in mind that I am asking these questions because of my own lack of knowledge, I will offer some suggestions.

It is never too early to make contacts. Talk to people. Ask about the job scene in your field. Don't push your resume on people - that could be a turn- off - but do give it to people if they are interested. Let your name become known. Let your credentials and qualifications become known. Ask contacts what you should do in terms of finding work once you move.

Now that I think of it, maybe people will tell you to contact them when you move to town because they are not sure you will be coming. If you absolutely know you are moving, and moving by a certain time, you can tell them you will be available for work on a specific date. I didn't think of that in my original post. I think I will go back and edit it now.

Meanwhile, you may want to make some more money now. Easier said than done, I know.

[Groilent Seen]

I mainly moving up for graduate work at UVM so I probably won't have a "desirable" job for that period, but it will be income nonetheless.

[GypsySoul22]

We were actually trying to move 'somewhere' for three years when this opportunity came up--we HAD to move (I'd rather not go into details but it's not good to rent from family who hold it over you like a club when their lives are not going anywhere...)

So we wound up in the Upper Valley. We did it all in a matter of 2 weeks or so...seriously. (didn't have a house to sell).

My husband had been sending out resumes for years, got the occasional call from various companies around the country but nothing offered (he was up in Concord, NH last year interviewing but nothing came of it).

He got a lot of jerk around calls--people acting like they were impressed with him but they really didn't care until we moved to their state/area.

If I had known YES this year was it and we'd find a place I would have started saving money like mad--I didn't have the option though.

My suggestion is if you ARE moving w/out a job just start saving money and get used to living frugally.

You can try to get a temp job but even these want you to live there before they will start the process of enrolling you or looking for a job for you.

Good luck to everyone. I know it is not easy.

[harry chickpea]

"Also, I also know that my situation is further complicated by the presence of 5 cats. (No, giving them up is not an option.)"

Somehow, I don't think all five cats will find work...

If you have people genuinely interested in hiring you, it may be time to make the leap of faith.

[arel]

Well, I can hopefully insist on time after I close on my house. I need a month to terminate with my psychotherapy clients. Meanwhile, if I have the money from the sale I can find a place to live. I can offer extra security money or even a little higher rent because of the cats. I would try to get a short term lease, which I think is possible in Brattleboro. Once moved in, even with some stuff in storage, I can look for work in earnest and also invest the house proceeds. My friend, who owns a big Victorian that is used as a boarding house, said that if I buy rental properties I may not have to be dependent on a job. This is important for the future.

I still don't know if I have the stomach and skills set to be a landlord, but I wil definitely look into this.

Unfortunately, the person I would have used as a buyer's agent never replied to my emails. Maybe he didn't get them, but I got no notice of delivery failure. So I plan to take my business elsewhere.

This is something I worry about in small town living. In a big city, you can easily blow off a local business that treats you badly and defect to a competitor. In a small town, you really can't. When I lived in Rhode Island, I once waited all day for a fuel delivery that never came. I had been told I had to stay home for entire day until the delivery came, and you can imagine how I felt when they never showed up. I called the company and asked someone why the fuel was not delivered. The person said, in a blase tone, that they didn't get to it. I was angry, but there was only one other fuel company in the area. I don't remember if I defected or not, but what could I have done if I had, and then found myself stiffed by the second company? I don't like the congestion in cities, but I do like the choices.

[KoZmiC NinJa]

Again, I have to be the wet blanket ........
If you are going to use a 'Temp' agency, check who their list of employers are. Our move to Vermont 'just wasnt meant to be' obviously, but my working with Temp agencies just added to the horrification. Every single one in the Rutland area only had substandard, absolute garbage, manufacturing type jobs. The worst of the worst. What they will do to keep you in a bad position (that THEY get paid for) is tell you there is an opening in your field shortly and ask you to stay in the crappo job until its open. Inevietably, the (imaginary)opening is always 'postponed' for one reason or another and you find yourself stuck in hell. If we didnt have the nice lump of money we had coming into Vermont we never would have survived past the first year.
My advice would be to persevere in finding a good job before you get to VT, however long and frustrating it might be. Getting here and using up all your escape money because you cant find a real job is a lot worse than the frustration you are having now.

[GypsySoul22]

Arel,
It's not just you. I emailed a few places (real estate) and never got replies. Or I got a standard machine reply and it went no further. In the end, we had to rent the one place we saw.

I know it will make you nuts trying to predict all scenarios and all outcomes. You just can't. You can only plan the best you can and then try it.

[arel]

Originally Posted by KoZmiC NinJa

Again, I have to be the wet blanket ........
If you are going to use a 'Temp' agency, check who their list of employers are. Our move to Vermont 'just wasnt meant to be' obviously, but my working with Temp agencies just added to the horrification. Every single one in the Rutland area only had substandard, absolute garbage, manufacturing type jobs. The worst of the worst. What they will do to keep you in a bad position (that THEY get paid for) is tell you there is an opening in your field shortly and ask you to stay in the crappo job until its open. Inevietably, the (imaginary)opening is always 'postponed' for one reason or another and you find yourself stuck in hell. If we didnt have the nice lump of money we had coming into Vermont we never would have survived past the first year.
My advice would be to persevere in finding a good job before you get to VT, however long and frustrating it might be. Getting here and using up all your escape money because you cant find a real job is a lot worse than the frustration you are having now.

It's the same in New York. In my first job after college, an employment agency told me a bunch of lies about a job. It was a secretarial job at a prestigious management consulting firm. I was told I could be an editor in a year. Well, guess what. It was a dead end job. When I asked about becomining an editor in a year I learned I had been lied to. I quit that job after a few months, but, unfortunately, the employment agency had already received their commission. But I told the job why I was quitting. They were furious, and stopped working with that agency. I also have memories of being told by various employment counselors what lies to say in the interview. It was disgusting, bit it's everywhere.

Unfortunately, corruption and dishonesty are the rule, not the exception.

Koz, you are absolutely right about using "escape money" for expenses. That is a nightmare, unless it is used only in the short term. What happens when it is gone? That money, if is substantial, i.e. if it is from an inheritance or the sale of a house, etc., should be invested. If possible, one should use only the interest for expenses and not touch the principal.