Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I agree that the NH stores will lose business, they are boutiques and won't compete with name brand stores.
As long as they offer a unique product that you can't find at the outlets, they will be fine. The stores at NH are also at a prime location. They are at the heart of NH. You can walk to them from your hotel and the docks. You have to catch a shuttle or drive to Tanger. The stores at NH have the benefit of foot traffic from the hotels, summer concerts, events, etc. They will do okay. If people want to shop at Brookstone or Charming Charlies, they will. If someone wants Godiva chocolate, they will go to NH. There's plenty of retail to go around. The area won't be saturated with one mall.
I expect both NH and Tanger to feed of each other. When the tour buses come to Tanger with people on shopping trips, they will want to check out NH. When conferences come to NH, they will want to check out Tanger. It's a win/win and a very unique position NH has. Add MGM and you have something very unique to this area.
Also, I think things will become more lively when NH is connected to mass transit. But as it stands now, it is doing fine.
If I may, I'd like to add a few data points (or subjective opinions):
Arrived at eight-fifty-ish in the morning and left at ten-ish in the AM. Getting into Tanger was a bit challenging especially because there are 2 left turn lanes from Oxon Hill road and the cars in the far-left lane realize they need to turn right into Tanger; therefore, they forcefully merge to the left lane which caused a bit of a backup on Oxon Hill Road.
I saw more commererce/shopping/retail transactions in 1 hour at Tanger than in NH's collective existence.
Went back around 5:30 PM with the fam and stayed until 8 PM. Traffic into Tanger during that time was a lot better. Exiting out using the new traffic light at Oxon Hill Manor was fairly easy. However, traffic on Oxon Hill Road going towards Fort Foote was severely congested.
I know some people have said that the lot may not be big enough. This may be a true statement, but when I arrived in the AM, a lot of people strategically chose to park across the street or at the building/park-and-ride lot next to Tanger as a means of not having to fight to get out of Tanger. There was available parking in Tanger's lot, even on the backside, when I arrived at 8:50-ish AM and when I left around 10:15 AM. I think this is a TBD, but I do agree with most sentiments expressed about the lack of parking.
Out of curiousity, I swung through NH during both visits and it was literally empty. The consumer presence in most of the stores is always next to nil, but this time there appeared to be no one in any of the stores or walking around the complex...especially during the evening. So, using Charming Charlie's, which usually has good foot traffic and commerce, as a marker, the store had maybe two customers in it.
NH's use of quality charter buses to shuttle people back and forth to the overflow lot added to the customer experience.
For me, Tanger's architecture is great and, like expected, the brands are great and the shopping experience in the area has been greatly improved.
You make a great point about the impact on the NH. Brands are what this demographic seeks and the stores currently at the harbor don't have brand recognition or loyalty. This will make it difficult for Peterson to draw the outlet crowd down to the harbor without creating some incentives(discount or free parking) are getting more national brands (A&F, Vince, Valentino, Jimmy Choo, Bose, CB2 (Crate and Barrel, Pottery Barn, West Elm, Branded Grocery Store etc.) to fill the spaces that they have available. They would also benefit from adding additional attractions to increase the day to day traffic like an upscale movie theater and a performance venue. Hopefully the outlets will give them a strong case to entice better stores down there) otherwise it will get worse especially when MGM opens up and most of the highly sought attractions will be about 2 miles from the rest of the project. As for parking that is another things to be determined based on traffic patterns after the holiday season.
Not sure what you mean here. Tanger has 85 pure retail stores. NH has maybe 15? This is obvious. NH was never meant to be a shopping destination. It is more of a resort/entertainment district.
No outlet I have been to outside of the holiday shopping season has a lack of parking and I've been to tons in about 6 different states. Come Jan 2nd, there should be ample parking. I have been to Arundel Mills and had to park across Route 100 at the Circuit City one holiday season because the mall was packed. I'm sure this occurs everywhere at this time. I disagree with those that says there isn't enough parking. Perhaps for Black Friday sales, but not for the 350 other days of the year. There's never enough parking at this time of year. Especially at a grand opening so close to Black Friday.
This is odd. My wife and I went there to eat last night at around 9:30pm and there were plenty of people walking around. No, they weren't shoulder-to-shoulder, but I had to stop to let people cross at just about every crosswalk. I'm not sure what people expect NH to be. I've been to Old Town Alexandria and have walked into empty stores. Aside from the fact that OTA has more offices and mid-day patrons, it can still seem too "empty" to some. Also, there are periods where there are conferences and the place is packed. My wife and I went to watch a football game a few weeks ago in the sports grill at the Gaylord and Charming Charlies was packed. So, there will be waves of activity and waves of non-activity. This happens in most places.
For example, my wife and I went to Myrtle Beach which is a major conference and resort area. We went to their popular Broadway at the Beach more than once on our 7 day vacation in October and it was a ghost town every time we went. If we had never been during the height of tourism, then we would suspect that this entertainment district was about to shut down. But it's just their off-season.
Once the apartments in NH come online, MGM, and other offices, you'll see more foot traffic, but there will still be times where you'll wonder where everyone is. I've been to downtown Baltimore at the Inner Harbor and it has been empty at times. Especially in the winter. Not too many people go for strolls when its 40 degrees outside. The restaurant we went to last night at NH was packed. So, there were people there.
That architecture is nice and I like the fact that they have covers over the corridors so that you can be protected from the elements. It was unusually warm yesterday. I imagine if it was colder, there would have been a smaller turnout.
You make some good points about it being the off-season for the National Harbor. Strolling on the waterfront in the winter is not most peoples idea of fun. However, as I stated in a prior post, NH does need to increase the number of popular branded stores to take advantage of the patrons to the Outlet. It would make sense that they would have equitable full price retail to balance what is being offered at the outlet. I re-read some of their marketing material recently and they they want to be a full threat. Entertainment, Dining, and Shopping. To date they have only hit dining on the head consistently. Yes they have featured shows live Cirque, Cavalia, and Ice but they really would benefit from other more adult oriented attractions that would pull people during the week and during off-season.
Also, although I have never had a problem with the cost of parking, most people do so creating a ongoing validation program or reducing the cost of parking would help get people over the stigma of parking at the Harbor. I don't recall there being structured free parking at the Inner Harbor so NH wouldn't have to give it away. They could also make street parking free on Sundays before or after a certain time.
You make some good points about it being the off-season for the National Harbor. Strolling on the waterfront in the winter is not most peoples idea of fun. However, as I stated in a prior post, NH does need to increase the number of popular branded stores to take advantage of the patrons to the Outlet. It would make sense that they would have equitable full price retail to balance what is being offered at the outlet. I re-read some of their marketing material recently and they they want to be a full threat. Entertainment, Dining, and Shopping. To date they have only hit dining on the head consistently. Yes they have featured shows live Cirque, Cavalia, and Ice but they really would benefit from other more adult oriented attractions that would pull people during the week and during off-season.
Also, although I have never had a problem with the cost of parking, most people do so creating a ongoing validation program or reducing the cost of parking would help get people over the stigma of parking at the Harbor. I don't recall there being structured free parking at the Inner Harbor so NH wouldn't have to give it away. They could also make street parking free on Sundays before or after a certain time.
Well, with the Peterson Companies being part owners of Tanger National Harbor, I'm sure they will draw on Tanger's retail expertise and perhaps Tanger can lure some of its other retail clients to fill-in the waterfront district.
Just a quick fyi/observation. For those who thought that traffic around the outlet would be forever changed during the week. It was pretty much non-existent this morning as well as this evening. Parking lot was full but no major traffic concerns. Now of course its a Monday which is usually light but, like what was mentioned before, its not going be as overbearing as people might think. Time will tell but it wasn't a deal killer by any means.
Just a quick fyi/observation. For those who thought that traffic around the outlet would be forever changed during the week. It was pretty much non-existent this morning as well as this evening. Parking lot was full but no major traffic concerns. Now of course its a Monday which is usually light but, like what was mentioned before, its not going be as overbearing as people might think. Time will tell but it wasn't a deal killer by any means.
Okay let's be fair here. It's the Monday before a major holiday, where there are people who are already on vacation or out of town. We are probably not going to really see how good/bad traffic will be until after the holidays (after New Years). Traffic was light for me going to work this morning as well.
Okay let's be fair here. It's the Monday before a major holiday, where there are people who are already on vacation or out of town. We are probably not going to really see how good/bad traffic will be until after the holidays (after New Years). Traffic was light for me going to work this morning as well.
That's one possibility but just as there are people that have gone out of town there are other coming in town. Couple that with people who are off and would go shopping/run errands during their time off, today could be representative of what a typical weekday (specifically a Monday which are typically light on traffic) would look like. As previously stated a true measure probably won't happen until after the holidays but its a good indicator.
I was at the outlet opening day from 9:30 to 4pm. The one glaring omission was more food options. We grabbed some Starbucks and an Auntie Annie pretzel upon arrival and after many hours of shopping were hungry but were not done shopping. Our only option was Johnny Rockets and a ChickFilA stand both of which had long lines since they were the only options on site. We ended up waiting in line for Johnny Rockets which could seat maybe 35 patrons comfortably inside. We debated going to the Harbor to eat but did not feel like waiting for the shuttle back to our car, then aging to park at NH then parking again and shuttling back to Tanger. Too much hassle as I imagine it will be for others who just want to grab a bite in the midst of their shopping. Maybe the ChickFilA stands will be transforming into their own fixed tore on site?
My other observation was that they are still clearing land right next to Tanger on the left as you go towards the residential neighborhood. Right next to an abandoned school. What is that space for?
I also saw the tribute to Salubria that they had in honor of the historic location that was torn down. The plaque left out the full back story of what happened there. Just that there were Indian relics on the land, John Bayne owned the property and how they trained their slaves to grown certain things and it redirects people to visit the not yet open heritage center on site and other historic locations nearby like Broad Creek etc.
Michael Kors and Coach are not my thing but they had continuous lines and they were only letting a few people in at a time. I was happy to see lots of clothing stores that I shop at in NoVa for my kids clothes there so will be happy to see my tax money finally stay in the state.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
NH was never meant to be a shopping destination. It is more of a resort/entertainment district. 
The Ice Rink at National Harbor
