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Let me guess, some folks up the corporate food chain paid for the series of articles expecting (eventually) government to foot the bill for a community college, voc. ed. programs. 1000 fools will spend their last savings to get qualified by securing appropriate certifications and degrees, then, in all their wisdom, folks up the corporate food chain would cherry pick 100 lucky dogs to swallow carcinogens for $12/hr, 900 will be left with debt and no job to blame themselves for failing to capitalize on the wonderful opportunities that are out there (for the right people, naturally). Ingenious scheme. Corporate America learned how to use meager peon' wages to subsidize corporate budgets and luxurious lifestyles, not only this, labor commodity blames itself, it doesn't rock the boat no matter what, it's priceless from the social control standpoint.
One of the rationales of keeping workers wages down and management wages up is referring to labor as two legged commodity, not unlike iron ore. It's the genius of management and stockholders organized that worthless (by itself) labor mass to manufacture all those wonderful goods and services, and thus management & stockholders deserve lion' share of the profits. In the light of this how "ethical" is to ask labor commodity to pay for its own training? They don't ask iron ore to pay for its enrichment, do they? Especially considering that >50% of the self-trained labor units will never ever use their training in appropriate lines of work.
Now, let's imagine an average labor unit, who gets in debt to secure a degree in X just to find out that he's not the person employers are looking for right now. A person bootstraps, hits relatives for food and shelter and somehow manages to earn certification in Y just to be told that employers are actually looking for somebody with training in Z. It's plainly obvious that an average labor unit has neither resources nor time to play this stupid self-adjustment game for too long. But without slightest doubt, he'll be labeled as a slacker who doesn't invest in himself and thus deserves what he gets.
That is true. It's ridiculous to think that you can have a rapidly changing economy and not have a more or less permanent underclass as well as putting people out of work as you said.
The other issue is as technology evolves, we have to keep up with it. Think about it, we are using tools that we never even heard of in 2008 in some cases. Technology evolves very fast and we have to keep up with it. We have to keep up with the next or we face extinction in the workplace. Don't think so, look at how many jobs were cut due to globalization, automation and other technology based advances in the workplace. Either we adapt and learn it or we are without a job and can't find one. Good luck finding jobs that do not require computers and/or other forms of technology. If you still don't believe it, look at the jobs that ask for specific software experience.
Search any trade you'd like. They are all there and hiring. These babyboomers aren't going to live forever, so my generation can quit whining about them "stealing my god given opportunity in life" and start working
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk
The other issue is as technology evolves, we have to keep up with it. Think about it, we are using tools that we never even heard of in 2008 in some cases. Technology evolves very fast and we have to keep up with it. We have to keep up with the next or we face extinction in the workplace. Don't think so, look at how many jobs were cut due to globalization, automation and other technology based advances in the workplace. Either we adapt and learn it or we are without a job and can't find one. Good luck finding jobs that do not require computers and/or other forms of technology. If you still don't believe it, look at the jobs that ask for specific software experience.
What tools exactly? The tools are almost entirely the same, although the engineering continued to improve. This improved their performance and life expectancy. What has changed slightly are the machines moving the tools. The formulas for determining speeds and feeds are all the same as well. Automation is great. It is what's driving growth in manufacturing, and bringing work back from China. As bad as you might think that is, it's far worse for the average Chinese migrant laborer.
Long, long, time ago. I mastered basic CNC EDM milling in 2 or 3 days, 2 weeks more and I could machine quite intricate, usable and sellable shapes, In 2 months I was milling intricate & tiny 3D shapes few believed can be manufactured with those particular EDMs. Yes, it was a government institution, I would have to spend thousand$ of my money, years of my life to qualify for $12/hr in the eyes of corporate HR. Makes perfect sense.
BTW, machinists don't live too long and frequently die in pain, all that crap they soak in adds up. Wanna shorten your life for 12/hr? Bosses need you. Don't forget about trucker' shortage too those live even less, on the average.
I'd really like to see who is paying $12/hr to a fully fledged, competent skilled worker in any profession. Those are machine operator wages, not machinist wages.
What is CNC EDM milling???
I've heard all kinds of stories from guys who claim they were building parts for NASA and this, that and the other thing. It's funny to watch them fall flat on their face in the workplace. The kids coming out of trade school think their special because they can write their name on a piece of 4140.
If such equipment exists, it's likely not practical in the average machine shop. Equipment is purchased on credit in most cases, and those costs must be factored into the bidding process. Maybe for high production work it makes sense, but not for the stuff I do. We do way to many "one offs" where older, less efficient machinery works fine due to it's low cost. Also great for JIT manufacturing where the customer will order 20-30 parts every 6 months. That high tech equipment usually requires much more set up time which must be factored into the price of the bid.
And I really have to call BS. Nobody masters milling and EDM work "in a couple of days". Maybe with some ultra modern programming software and high tech machinery, but that's a fraction of the jobs available, and usually highly specialized. Working in an "institution" and working in the private sector are two completely different things. Nobody holds your hand in the workplace, licks your wounds when things go wrong, or gives you a certificate saying you "mastered EDM and milling". Most shop owners laugh at those certificates.
What toxic chemicals do machinists come into contact with exactly? I've never encountered this. Get dinged up from time to time, but coolant and oil are about the only things I will deal with. Welding is far worse due to all the fumes, but people seem to prefer that.
Search any trade you'd like. They are all there and hiring. These babyboomers aren't going to live forever, so my generation can quit whining about them "stealing my god given opportunity in life" and start working
Idk, to be honest I got into the trades doing just what you said - walking into a business with no experience but expressing a desire to learn. I'm pretty sure I got hired because I'm a combat veteran though and you know I definitely put that on EVERY resume. Employers REALLY like veterans.
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing but the utmost contempt for almost anyone born after 1980. Can these emasculated, lazy, cowardly, self-indulgent, self-righteous, self-scum bags walk in off the street into an apprenticeship? I doubt it. I certainly wouldn't hire most of these idiots. That's my only point. You assume that these folks actually want to work. I think they're perfectly happy letting "society" take care of them. Maybe a few have a desire to go into extremely commendable and skilled fields like dog-walking or wine-tasting (hey, dogs are my passion!) but I'm not sure I'd call that work ethic.
Even a person who wasn't as you described I still doubt they'd be able to get into this stuff off the street. Those companies won't even pay for the training, they expect you to get the certifications and skills needed somewhere else and then they might give you the time of day. Unless you have connections, like your dad owns the company.
Even a person who wasn't as you described I still doubt they'd be able to get into this stuff off the street. Those companies won't even pay for the training, they expect you to get the certifications and skills needed somewhere else and then they might give you the time of day. Unless you have connections, like your dad owns the company.
You obviously do not understand what an apprenticeship is.
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those live even less, on the average.
