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Old 04-12-2020, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Metro Phoenix
11,039 posts, read 16,857,456 times
Reputation: 12950

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
I don't see that here in Europe at all. Unlike in the US, Europeans don't blame China. Why? Simply because it doesn't matter whether the virus came from China (if it did) as long as it was not deliberately released, which nobody believes because we don't think the Chinese are so stupid as to target their own country first. You could see that at the G7 (?) meeting recently where the US tried to force the term Chinese virus on everyone, but failed because the rest refused to.
Even within the US, pushing use of the term "Chinese Virus" was quite unpopular. I wouldn't expect the EU to go along with this, of course, but it doesn't signal that they find China to be faultless. On the contrary, the general sense I've seen from Europeans is that the virus clearly originated here and the invitation handling of it was awful, but it's not the time to play the blame game as the world is still in a bad state.

Quote:
Also, Europe has close business ties with China, we need China since it is such a huge market. That's why Europeans are happy when China gets back on its feet again asap. Unlike brainwashed Americans, we are interested in a prosperous China. We are aware China is a difficult country, though.
This may be your personally held belief but it doesn't seem to be the generally held one. The EU policies towards China are that of a "systematic rival," as they put it, and there has been anger over Chinese espionage, frustration over its business practices and their effects on Europe, human rights, etc. I don't think that the average European is under any illusion that China's alturistic and hoping with bated breath that it's economic juggernaut restarts soon. Anyone who is should be careful of throwing around the term "brainwashed."

 
Old 04-12-2020, 02:10 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,738,024 times
Reputation: 9728
As I said, we are aware China is a difficult country to deal with. We don't exactly love the Chinese government.
But take Germany, China is their biggest trading partner, Germans need the Chinese to buy German products. Germany gains more from the trade than it loses due to IP theft.

Also, we Europeans have a different view compared to Americans. Many people here can't stand the US, either. So, we consider ourselves a bloc that tries to get along with both rivals, while focusing on what is best for us.
 
Old 04-12-2020, 02:24 PM
 
12,022 posts, read 11,567,188 times
Reputation: 11136
It looks like the Chinese lab was working with researchers from the UNC-CH lab under a US-funded research program.

https://www.zerohedge.com/health/exp...had-us-funding

This is what I had read in another report several weeks ago. They moved the US research offshore due to new guidelines against civilian medical research labs being used to engineer infectious viruses.

It was done in 2015 at the UNC-CH lab and created a controversy. There are a lot of articles on it, which was followed by the restrictions on the NIH funding such research.

example

It now means the US owns the research.

Last edited by lchoro; 04-12-2020 at 02:42 PM..
 
Old 04-12-2020, 02:28 PM
 
Location: North Las Vegas NV
661 posts, read 631,192 times
Reputation: 793
I think they should have used the term 'Wuhan Virus' for covid-19. It would have kept precedent of previous virus naming of origin.
 
Old 04-12-2020, 02:34 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,738,024 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by lchoro View Post
It looks like the Chinese lab was working with researchers from the UNC-CH lab under a US-funded research program.

https://www.zerohedge.com/health/exp...had-us-funding

This is what I had read in another report several weeks ago. They moved the US research offshore due to new guidelines against civilian medical research labs being used to engineer infectious viruses.
There was also an article where someone said that the Wuhan institute received viruses from a corresponding US institute.
 
Old 04-12-2020, 02:36 PM
 
Location: Metro Phoenix
11,039 posts, read 16,857,456 times
Reputation: 12950
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
As I said, we are aware China is a difficult country to deal with. We don't exactly love the Chinese government.
But take Germany, China is their biggest trading partner, Germans need the Chinese to buy German products. Germany gains more from the trade than it loses due to IP theft.

Also, we Europeans have a different view compared to Americans. Many people here can't stand the US, either. So, we consider ourselves a bloc that tries to get along with both rivals, while focusing on what is best for us.
Most of the Germans I have met here have a pretty sarcastic and generally negative view of China - and those are the ones who are here, generally conducting business which one would assume benefits them. I checked and it seems that polls indicate that Germans hold a more unfavourable than favourable view of China, largely due to its meddling in the German economy and its politics but also over environmental and human rights issues. Obviously, when vast sums of money and large pieces of the economy are at stake, it is necessary to be pragmatic, which is something the Germans are known to excel at. But, point remains the same, that across Europe, attitudes are souring and patience is wearing thin. This is not to say that I think that this is creating a rosier picture of the US, especially under Trump; however, the shine is clearly wearing off of China in the EU's eyes.
 
Old 04-12-2020, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Canada
7,363 posts, read 8,399,990 times
Reputation: 5260
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkwensky View Post
Where have you experienced this? In Asia or among Asians in Western countries? I would think that Asians in general aren't good at telling Hispanics from South Asians and Middle Easterners. If you're talking about Asians in Mexico or South American they also suffer strong discrimination from the local population. For example they call everyone who look East Asian 'chinos'.
Here in North America.

Asians in many parts of laitn america are known to own and operate sweatshops. They are also known to treat their workers like crap.
 
Old 04-12-2020, 03:22 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,738,024 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
Most of the Germans I have met here have a pretty sarcastic and generally negative view of China - and those are the ones who are here, generally conducting business which one would assume benefits them. I checked and it seems that polls indicate that Germans hold a more unfavourable than favourable view of China, largely due to its meddling in the German economy and its politics but also over environmental and human rights issues. Obviously, when vast sums of money and large pieces of the economy are at stake, it is necessary to be pragmatic, which is something the Germans are known to excel at. But, point remains the same, that across Europe, attitudes are souring and patience is wearing thin. This is not to say that I think that this is creating a rosier picture of the US, especially under Trump; however, the shine is clearly wearing off of China in the EU's eyes.
I don't think so, there never was a shine to begin with. China's reputation has not changed much, but the US' reputation has suffered a great deal in recent years, particularly since the coronavirus mess started.

Regarding pragmatism and money, Germany is no different from other countries. The modern economic system can only survive as long as there is growth. Not to mention that governments have to make sure billions of people have jobs, no matter how pointless or even destructive those are. It's a stupid system.
 
Old 04-12-2020, 04:52 PM
 
255 posts, read 565,432 times
Reputation: 281
I might as well jump in since I live in China and did lockdown here.


The Chinese people are very angry that this happened, they're blaming it on the people who eat bats and I suppose that can go as far as health inspectors and government officials in Wuhan who turned a blind eye to this disgusting practice - which has now been outlawed and will be eradicated. This has been a blight on China's global repuation and will probably make them a paraiah.


Now, the Chinese government and the CCP.


If you don't get how they're run is about their culture then you don't understand Chinese people and what they want.


My boss told me about the strength of 'The One Party System' and the superiority of it when it came to dealing with coronavirus in relation to Europe/America and the differences with China. He doesn't give a damn about socialism/communism or anything else just as long as there is a strong and responsible governance to take charge when the **** hits the fan, oh yeah, and to make them more prosperous and rich - which is what's happening at the moment - if they were socialist, fascist or the monster raving loony party - he wouldn't give a damn!


He's wrong and I told him that but he doesn't want democracy - he doesn't - and nor do most Chinese people who I speak to.


And you don't want a democratic China - not if you have any sense - democracy has made the FSU a more dangerous part of the world for Global Security than it was before. Russia is now a rogue state WITH nuclear weapons that invades neighbouring countries.


There are millions of people in China who would vote for retribution against Japan, lots and lots of extremely nationalistic people who should be nowhere near getting a vote - no, not everyone is worthy of a vote, not everyone has 'criticial thinking skills' there are people who are best off being left alone to be run how they want.


And if you still don't think it's about culture - then I present Singapore - a so-called democracy that has been run by the same one party since 1965 - a democracy so corrupt that the one party in charge silence and disable any kind of opposition to their power - but you don't care about them because - well, you just don't give a damn but most Singaporeans are happy with how they're run even though their democracy is an utter sham (which it is in the United States I suppose...) if China became 'democratic' the same practices of governance would still exist as they do now. Opposition would go missing, media would be monitored along with the rest of it.

Last edited by bejarano; 04-12-2020 at 05:53 PM..
 
Old 04-12-2020, 05:42 PM
 
12,022 posts, read 11,567,188 times
Reputation: 11136
You could blame it on the government for accepting hazardous and toxic materials from the West. They've long accepted toxic and hazardous waste from the West, but they recently banned that practice which has shifted to SE Asia. When they move up the supply chain, this will become less dependent on accepting low-end manufacturing that polluters their air and water. That's what the US Is trying to prevent since they become less dependent on the US, Japan, and Europe and have a greater economic influence on Asia and Africa.

There's really not much difference between one-party rule and two-party rule. They both stamp out all opposition. The two-party rule provides more of a safety valve since people can let their steam off for mostly cosmetic differences, none of which really affect the elites of the society. They can easily get someone elected just on the basis that they're not other candidate. It is the ultimate illusion of having a choice.
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