Orlando developer to buy former GM plant in Doraville (Decatur: transfer, neighborhood)

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by cqholt

The future transit roll out plan MARTA did for Clayton was solid. It should bus routes, time frames and a fixed-guide transitway. Without doing the LPA and EIR the decision on the type of transit to run is a waste of time.

That's fair. I'm mostly talking about doing what they did in Clayton, but with a better idea of how much their options would cost. It doesn't have to be super accurate, but something in the ball park would go a long way towards helping people making the choice to join or not.

Originally Posted by bu2

There's been ONE survey that showed support. That's not a lot to go on.

They need some discussion of what their approach should be and what they need. That's hardly irresponsible before permanently adding a 1 cent sales tax.

I think you and I agree on this. There is still work to be done before the tax would win, but that one survey was very promising. Keep in mind that it was one of likely voters, with 50% saying they'd approve the MARTA tax. A solid push on campaigning on MARTA's part could very well push that support over the edge.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by Ant131531

And Gwinnett gets to ignore the South Gwinnett schools? Not all of Gwinnett schools are good.

That's one of the primary reasons Gwinnett got the Broad awards. Because they do well with disadvantaged groups.

Two School Districts Awarded 2014 Broad Prize for Urban Education - US News

[sedimenjerry]

Originally Posted by bu2

So Fulton gets to exclude South Fulton and Cobb gets to exclude the rest of Cobb? And Decatur gets to compare to a whole county?

Gwinnett has gotten the Broad prize TWICE! Gwinnett schools overall run circles around Cobb and Fulton. Its not close. At all.

But really the discussion is more about county government than schools. And Gwinnett does a pretty good job. They get some arrests too, but not as many.

Originally Posted by Ant131531

And Gwinnett gets to ignore the South Gwinnett schools? Not all of Gwinnett schools are good.

All of Gwinnett schools were brought up. The poster compared just east Cobb schools, just North Fulton and just city of Decatur schools to all of Gwinnett. No one ignored other Gwinnett schools which is the entire point.




Everyone who has taken a poly sci class knows that the majority of people who show up at the polls for non prez elections are white, old and conservative. This is nothing surprising, it's not a just Gwinnett thing.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

That's fair. I'm mostly talking about doing what they did in Clayton, but with a better idea of how much their options would cost. It doesn't have to be super accurate, but something in the ball park would go a long way towards helping people making the choice to join or not.



I think you and I agree on this. There is still work to be done before the tax would win, but that one survey was very promising. Keep in mind that it was one of likely voters, with 50% saying they'd approve the MARTA tax. A solid push on campaigning on MARTA's part could very well push that support over the edge.

I think Gwinnett should join MARTA, but slamming them for being cautious with one survey showing support is over the top.

Just up and joining MARTA is kind of like the TSPLOST. They figured out how much money they could raise and THEN tried to figure out which pet projects to throw into the pot. And that vote failed. Clayton had a pretty good idea of what they wanted and what MARTA could provide.

[ATLTJL]

Everyone who has taken a poly sci class knows that the majority of people who show up at the polls for non prez elections are white, old and conservative.

I'm not so sure if this is as true as it used to be.

However, those old, white, conservative people can surprise you. After all, the alcohol on Sunday referendum passed by a huge margin.

[sedimenjerry]

Originally Posted by ATLTJL

I'm not so sure if this is as true as it used to be.

However, those old, white, conservative people can surprise you. After all, the alcohol on Sunday referendum passed by a huge margin.

It may slowly be changing, but with elections cycles taking literally years, it's gonna take a while to see changes.

That's not too surprising, a lot of conservatives (here in metro Atlanta at least) are more fiscally conservative than socially conservative. Besides, what else would unite the masses more than alcohol?!?

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by bu2

I think Gwinnett should join MARTA, but slamming them for being cautious with one survey showing support is over the top.

Just up and joining MARTA is kind of like the TSPLOST. They figured out how much money they could raise and THEN tried to figure out which pet projects to throw into the pot. And that vote failed. Clayton had a pretty good idea of what they wanted and what MARTA could provide.

We're pretty much on the same page here.

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Gwinnett County's officials are out of touch with what is going on in the metro. This shows that the older, white, conservative voters still run many of the suburban counties, even though the populations are diversifying.

On this one issue in context, I agree with you.

On the other issues others are trying to bring up and on most other parts of the county management, I don't. Award winning park system, award winning school system, strong growth, and median incomes. The county did a very forward thinking overhaul of the water and sewage system focusing on lowering long-term operations and lowering overall water usage. For the most part it is a very well managed county and most of the populace don't carry large complaints as the county is responsive to most peoples needs.


What I will say on this topic though...

Gwinnett is not Clayton. There are some key important differences.

Gwinnett operates a transit system. I fully admit it is small given the county's size, however it has been fairly responsive at making sure are transit service in key job and denser job corridors. It opens up housing and job options for those that need it, although I have a few opinions on how the county needs to alter bus routes.

They also have a self-funded express bus system. This gets blurred with the GRTA system too much, because they have overlapping routes and the GRTA subcontracts out some routes to be operated by Gwinnett. But Gwinnett operates and pays for their own key routes and those routes are fairly successful. In all the system would equates to an extra lane for traffic capacity during peak commute periods from Gwinnett all the way into Downtown and Midtown.

Basic point is.... they haven't sat still, even if it isn't everything some want.

Secondly Gwinnett is a potential cash cow. Gwinnett is the second most populace county in the area and is projected to close to Fulton in terms of population. It has the most retail spending than any county in Georgia, which is the main provider of the sales tax digest. (We are talking about an amount that surpasses Fulton by a small margin and is about 4.5x the size of Clayton's and about 1.75x the size of Dekalb's for comparison)

The reason I mention this:
1) most plans involving Gwinnett show a relatively short (but important) spur route into the county and perhaps added buses from what we already have, while ...
2) the existing system appears like it would remain bigger and many of the expansion ideas closer intown favor redevelopment vs regional mobility (ie. The Emory LRT wouldn't his the East-West line in a quick manner for connecting more commuters, it meanders through redevelopment areas north of Decatur. There is a pro and con to that strategy. It would make it harder for East line/Decatur to/from Gwinnett to utilize a system).
3) I also don't believe Gwinnett needs the amount of busing present in Fulton and Central Dekalb, yet we would be stuck paying the same amount.
4) Large parts of Gwinnett would be best served by commuter rail and the problem is because of lack of state leadership, because we don't really know how to do a funding model for such a thing. A wide spread system is more likely to be operated by the state. Our money might be better spent if split in different ways.

So my problem is I would be all on board for something, but I have always been concerned with Gwinnett becoming a long-term donor region given what it would put in.

[bu2]

What are you saying with #2?
(ie. The Emory LRT wouldn't his the East-West line in a quick manner for connecting more commuters, it meanders through redevelopment areas north of Decatur. There is a pro and con to that strategy. It would make it harder for East line/Decatur to/from Gwinnett to utilize a system

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by Ant131531

And Gwinnett gets to ignore the South Gwinnett schools? Not all of Gwinnett schools are good.

I must agree with the others. You're handpicking schools in some areas and trying to compare to the entirety of Gwinnett County.

The reason Gwinnett schools are so good is they are usually ahead of the curve. Lets take two of Gwinnett's weaker schools, Meadowcreek and Berkmar. Ultimately the issue is the socio-economic differences from cheaper rental properties and a more transient population. Yet both schools outperform others with similar demographics. They are ahead of the curve closing the gap.

Gwinnett also takes on a huge load.

Gwinnett has 173k students.
Cobb has 111k students.
Dekalb has 101k students.
Fulton has 94k students.
Atlanta has 55k students.

So with 173k students it is hard to argue that would all uniformly be tip top to compare to smaller isolated regions.

Gwinnett has 18 public school clusters with a 19th about to open up soon. It has one Charter school GMST.

I hate generalizing rankings with something like high schools, but I need something quick and easy.

Out of 445 state high schools ranked by US news Gwinnett has the #1 school, which is a specialized charter school (GMST). Out of the 18 clusters, 11 of them are in the top 50. Gwinnett in all makes up 22% of the top 50 list for the state. 24% if we add Buford, Gwinnett's City school system. That ain't bad. And yes East Cobb, N. Fulton, Forsyth, and Decatur City are all well represented on the same list.