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To be unemployed and collecting unemployment, welfare, SSI or other means of income from government. This is especially true if you are on unemployment, and obtaining benefits with no desire to try and find a new job. Instead, the time is used to do other things, like travel, chill, etc.
Man, I love funemployment
Oh my gosh... hilarious! That was my point exactly. There are people because of public policy which has extended the unemployment benefit period, many people have opted to not actively look for work.
Thanks for sharing... I needed the reprieve from this discussion! I've said all that I needed to say, now I shall sit back and watch other unsuspecting souls try and reason until they realize they are debating with someone whom I suspect has beenemotionally scarred by Big Brother!
...
Now it makes sense why you think that those who want to live the welfare life are entitled to do so at everyone else's expense...
Who said that? Not I. And why do you think so? What makes sense?
My discussion has not been about justifying welfare -- although I have acknowledged that many people on welfare are the unfortunate result of the vagaries of life. My entire focus has been on how this welfare issue is neither a drag on or a danger to society that compares with the damage done by wealthy, well educated elites. I am sick of hearing vilification of the poor and uneducated -- at least without acknowledgement that they don't compare in the slightest to the destructive forces wielded cavalierly by elites.
What I write is indisputable. No one has yet disproved my claim that destructive behaviors executed by certain elites are far more damaging and dangerous to society than the simply self-destructive behaviors of the lowest classes. No one has been able to demonstrate that a million welfare checks to a million individuals is comparable to the poisoning of hundreds of millions of Americans by a relatively small number of very wealthy, educated, and sophisticated people on a daily basis. Etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TVC15
I grew up poor and my family did not expect free handouts nor did we get them.
So? Unless you are saying your strengths mean you are better people and more worthy of god's love than persons who suffer weaknesses. Back to elitist judgements.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TVC15
Like YTG said being poor does not equate to being a low life! Being a low life is a state of mind and a self-contained mental disease. I was one of the poorest little "rich" girls that you would have ever encountered.
I agree. about poverty and low life ... I have no idea what you being a poor little "rich" girl means or what it has to do with anything here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TVC15
I have more homeless friends then you could ever imagine! And how refreshing that they don't expect society to pay their way through life. Some like the reality they live in and some want to change that reality.
Yes. I have the same experience. Again: so?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TVC15
Your reality as well as other’s reality is what shapes your life...to an extent...but at the end of the day it is our own reality that paves our way to where we want to go and what we are willing to do to make it happen. We all have to live on this planet and endure this reality. My reality, choices and hard work are what shaped my life. If I had the welfare reality or the I am a victim of my bad ghetto upbringing reality…I would not be where I am today. You choose your reality. And you believe in what you believe in. That is why we have this diversity thing among humans.
Yes. And so? But the diversity shouldn't include that some people can't rise to compete and therefore they are unworthy of god's love? Again?
What would Jesus think (No, I'm not religious ... just wondering.)
I get the part about me not knowing anything about poverty. Which is hilarious. And "living in the lap of luxury"? Moi? Never and still not. I am writing this from the van I live in -- that's the truth. But you probably refer to me being wealthy in net worth. Which is relatively true. Now. But that only occurred in the past 15 years of my 64. And my moderate wealth came to me mostly all at once from a completely unexpected, and tragic set of events for which I suffered greatly in service to others. I did not do what I did for reward. Never expected any. And it tore me and my life to pieces. I will not explain further. But you will never experience the tragedies I have lived.
I won't for a second make a comment about your service. As an American, I thank you for your service even if I don't agree w/ the ridiculous nature of our military and war mongering as a country. You experienced tragedy .. Cool, I understand that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo
Anyway, I was raised in a family of recent immigrants of incredible poverty. But who managed to live very controlled and decent and educated lives on pennies saved. As I shared with you once, that eventually led to a very eclectic upbringing immersed in the great social movements of post WWII ... including welfare and union development and reform, civil rights, women's rights, and anti-war activities.
We have talked before in confidence. Again, as you reflect, there is nothing wrong w/ poverty. A big thing that you have to grasp is that this is 2012. You went through stuff granted but as much as you think things are the same. They aren't. Unions for instance.. Labor laws were non-existent.. Unions initially were great and paved the way from sane/just labor laws. We got the laws.. Now they are just tearing society apart and hurting the people who keep them employed(things change). It used to be that public workers were humble servants to society anymore. That is not the case anymore. They are paid (considering benefits) even better than private sector in many cases and their servitude ends when you cut their paycheck. (things change) We have civil rights, my dad was a teenager during that time and talked to me many times about what it was like. He is very protective and would often times overreact about my 'eclectic' group of friends. He was surrounded by racism and so its odd that i have a bunch of white friends (things change). Older people I have dealt w/ from his generation.. Some have been quite racist.. Present day generation? Not so much (things change). Women's rights.. Women's rights are here. The old dogs who are hail from the woman's rights era are still here too like the racists..... Like civil rights it will take (2-3 generations) for it to fade out (things eventually change). Welfare/social safety nets.. Created out of a need and a real function in society.. Now-a-days are run-amuck and exploited (things change)
Anti-war activities .. Still here. Jack arse presidents and govt... Still here. People having no control over what our idiotic govt. does except tossing a stupid vote in a box all to see them go in office and do wtf they want.. Oh but you can vote em out in 4 years and put another idiot just like em in office .. This is a democracy (nothing has changed)
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo
I was exposed to every kind of person rich and poor, educated and not, black and white. I personally met many of the greatest names of history in those movements as well as politicians both local and national. We lived the beliefs of my parents and none of it included any indulgence in luxury.
You blame wallstreet and not mainstreet. You don't reflect on the poverty of mind that plagues people but on poverty itself. I have to assume as to what draws this flawed and skewed view. I assumed wrong. Do you care to analyze yourself and tell me why you seem to, even after having living a life of poverty and led a rich life ....blame the guys in the clouds? Not reflect on the mental driver of a 'state of poverty'?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo
Heh. In fact, where do you think I acquired my love of living as a minimalist in nature? Traveling as a family at times for months, six of us plus dog and cat, in an old sedan camping in tents at the rustic spots of the nation -- nothing was developed then in the 50's as now ... no electricity or plumbing at the campsites. We bathed in cold mountain streams and lived in tents. We attended church services in Harlem and Synagogues in Bethesda as my father spoke on civil rights and welfare culture and fair housing practices. We cooked over campfires.
Kid, I know a bit more than squat about living poor and struggling and welfare culture.
Time for you to towel off behind your ears.
You do but you seem to haven't learned anything.. You were close to all of these pivotal movements but you were close to the leaders and their strong willed followers. Your parents were strong willed leaders as were mine. I though gained exposure and had a way of understanding the products of parents who weren't. You sympathize for these people but you don't empathize. You were a fly on a wall to it all. If you were more than that your view points and opinions would be different.
Again, you blame wallstreet and don't reflect on mainstreet.
You point out those who are impoverished and reflect on it like its
#1 - Bad
#2 - resolved by handouts
You father spoke to all of those people about civil rights and welfare culture .. How many people did he reach? How many just kept on keeping on? Were here now right ? 2012 .. what has changed ? For the mindset of millions .. nothing. You father didn't reach. I can't reach em. You can't. Handouts wont....and yet, good money keeps going after bad. Meanwhile, per your cross world experiences you should have gathered... There are many other people in the world.. Some eat mud pies for sustenance. There are millions who are actually strong willed and have strong minds who want to do better... What about them? What about the many people who you push many steps back by handouts? What about them? What about the mind? The mind that you fail to provide sustenance. The wisest thing my dad every told me and what I live by : Son..If you ever do anything in life.. Grow and protect your mind. Educate yourself and when you're tired educate yourself some more... Beyond books.. Obtain knowledge and wisdom.. There's a difference. Money comes and goes. Things come and go. People will take your 'things' from you .. People will spit on you.. Call you names.. Disadvantage you.. You may wake up living under a bridge.. But if your mind can never be taken away from you.. Protect it .. Nourish it .. because its the one thing that they can never take from you...
We live in America... Our media.. and dominant ideology convince people everyday to turn off their minds . Feed it trash. Society at large does. I grew up in the information age and have watched the internet evolve.. At first it helped stamp out myths.. B.S .. etc.. Then came the monied interest.. And now, the problem is not getting information, it's sorting through the pile of sh*t stacked on top of it. People don't think critically anymore.. Instead they rely on some opinion from an expert. A noble prize winner in foolishness.. A reporter on CNN. A clown who conforms w/ their views. People don't engage in critical debate... If you go against dominant ideology or the mainstream view you get mob'd by a pack of wolves. The knowing people try for a while and eventually give up and grow up.. and the gap widens even more.
You've given me your advice.. One piece of advice for you. Don't ever get so old that you think you have nothing to learn from someone younger than you. Every now and again approach an issue taking the total opposite view you would normally take...
You corrected me. You know a thing or two about poverty .. But were you a fly on the wall or a sponge w.r.t to the experiences? Did you understand things or just observe? Your view on wallstreet/mainstreet and poverty have a common line. More than anyone, you need to understand personally what drives this flawed view of yours. Death is certain in life. We all arrive there eventually. Someone dies. Someone is born. Life is a struggle.. We all have our own personal ones.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.
It's 2012. The biggest plague of poverty exists in many minds of the human race.
Dislike wallstreet? Stop buying sh*t you don't need? Dislike the gap between rich/poor? stop buying sh*t you don't need.
Organize. Create more fair circumstances.. But .. but ..
The face of future welfare queens
vs. the past :
(things change)
2012 .. Poverty .. Things (have) changed.
Last edited by yeahthatguy; 06-17-2012 at 02:30 AM..
Location: Central Bay Area, CA as of Jan 2010...but still a proud Texan from Houston!
7,484 posts, read 10,452,629 times
Reputation: 8955
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy
I won't for a second make a comment about your service. As an American, I thank you for your service even if I don't agree w/ the ridiculous nature of our military and war mongering as a country. You experienced tragedy .. Cool, I understand that.
We have talked before in confidence. Again, as you reflect, there is nothing wrong w/ poverty. A big thing that you have to grasp is that this is 2012. You went through stuff granted but as much as you think things are the same. They aren't. Unions for instance.. Labor laws were non-existent.. Unions initially were great and paved the way from sane/just labor laws. We got the laws.. Now they are just tearing society apart and hurting the people who keep them employed(things change). It used to be that public workers were humble servants to society anymore. That is not the case anymore. They are paid (considering benefits) even better than private sector in many cases and their servitude ends when you cut their paycheck. (things change) We have civil rights, my dad was a teenager during that time and talked to me many times about what it was like. He is very protective and would often times overreact about my 'eclectic' group of friends. He was surrounded by racism and so its odd that i have a bunch of white friends (things change). Older people I have dealt w/ from his generation.. Some have been quite racist.. Present day generation? Not so much (things change). Women's rights.. Women's rights are here. The old dogs who are hail from the woman's rights era are still here too like the racists..... Like civil rights it will take (2-3 generations) for it to fade out (things eventually change). Welfare/social safety nets.. Created out of a need and a real function in society.. Now-a-days are run-amuck and exploited (things change)
Anti-war activities .. Still here. Jack arse presidents and govt... Still here. People having no control over what our idiotic govt. does except tossing a stupid vote in a box all to see them go in office and do wtf they want.. Oh but you can vote em out in 4 years and put another idiot just like em in office .. This is a democracy (nothing has changed)
You blame wallstreet and not mainstreet. You don't reflect on the poverty of mind that plagues people but on poverty itself. I have to assume as to what draws this flawed and skewed view. I assumed wrong. Do you care to analyze yourself and tell me why you seem to, even after having living a life of poverty and led a rich life ....blame the guys in the clouds? Not reflect on the mental driver of a 'state of poverty'?
You do but you seem to haven't learned anything.. You were close to all of these pivotal movements but you were close to the leaders and their strong willed followers. Your parents were strong willed leaders as were mine. I though gained exposure and had a way of understanding the products of parents who weren't. You sympathize for these people but you don't empathize. You were a fly on a wall to it all. If you were more than that your view points and opinions would be different.
Again, you blame wallstreet and don't reflect on mainstreet.
You point out those who are impoverished and reflect on it like its
#1 - Bad
#2 - resolved by handouts
You father spoke to all of those people about civil rights and welfare culture .. How many people did he reach? How many just kept on keeping on? Were here now right ? 2012 .. what has changed ? For the mindset of millions .. nothing. You father didn't reach. I can't reach em. You can't. Handouts wont....and yet, good money keeps going after bad. Meanwhile, per your cross world experiences you should have gathered... There are many other people in the world.. Some eat mud pies for sustenance. There are millions who are actually strong willed and have strong minds who want to do better... What about them? What about the many people who you push many steps back by handouts? What about them? What about the mind? The mind that you fail to provide sustenance. The wisest thing my dad every told me and what I live by : Son..If you ever do anything in life.. Grow and protect your mind. Educate yourself and when you're tired educate yourself some more... Beyond books.. Obtain knowledge and wisdom.. There's a difference. Money comes and goes. Things come and go. People will take your 'things' from you .. People will spit on you.. Call you names.. Disadvantage you.. You may wake up living under a bridge.. But if your mind can never be taken away from you.. Protect it .. Nourish it .. because its the one thing that they can never take from you...
We live in America... Our media.. and dominant ideology convince people everyday to turn off their minds . Feed it trash. Society at large does. I grew up in the information age and have watched the internet evolve.. At first it helped stamp out myths.. B.S .. etc.. Then came the monied interest.. And now, the problem is not getting information, it's sorting through the pile of sh*t stacked on top of it. People don't think critically anymore.. Instead they rely on some opinion from an expert. A noble prize winner in foolishness.. A reporter on CNN. A clown who conforms w/ their views. People don't engage in critical debate... If you go against dominant ideology or the mainstream view you get mob'd by a pack of wolves. The knowing people try for a while and eventually give up and grow up.. and the gap widens even more.
You've given me your advice.. One piece of advice for you. Don't ever get so old that you think you have nothing to learn from someone younger than you. Every now and again approach an issue taking the total opposite view you would normally take...
You corrected me. You know a thing or two about poverty .. But were you a fly on the wall or a sponge w.r.t to the experiences? Did you understand things or just observe? Your view on wallstreet/mainstreet and poverty have a common line. More than anyone, you need to understand personally what drives this flawed view of yours. Death is certain in life. We all arrive there eventually. Someone dies. Someone is born. Life is a struggle.. We all have our own personal ones.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.
It's 2012. The biggest plague of poverty exists in the mind of the human race.
... now I shall sit back and watch other unsuspecting souls try and reason until they realize they are debating with someone who advocates for the excuse-makers of America.
Show me where I have advocated for excuse makers ... I have done no more or less than demonstrate that they are not the worst among us ... that, in fact, that distinction goes to sociopaths who are among the wealthy and highly educated. As I wrote above to TVC15, a lot of folks here, including yourself, have thrown out stereotyped accusations about poor, uneducated people, denigrating them as the low life's that cause the greatest harms to our society. That simply is not true. However low life those people may be, their actions do not rise to the immoral acts of elitists.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juelle
I'm sorry, America is over-run with social programs to assist the disadvantaged out of their plight, however rather than take advantage of the free education, free training, free medical services, free counseling, free job coaching, free employment services, they won't even get up out of the bed or off the sofa to even go and take advantage of all the free services afforded them.
I live in a neighborhood, where people will make an effort to get up and walk to the 7-Eleven every morning in their nightclothes to get coffee, only to go back home and climb onto the sofa. I know someone who was ecstatic that school was out so now she doesn't have to get up in the morning to take her daughter to school. She was an honors student in high school, so she has the intellect to either obtain higher education or secure a job. She dropped out of community college, and at 26 has never worked a day in her life. She gets her usual welfare check, food subsidy, and lives in a Section-8, 2 bedroom house, but complains about getting up at 7am to take her daughter to school. My response to her was "Praise God for all the people who do get up early just so that you can have food in your fridge and a roof over your head, while they have to struggle to live in a 1-bedroom apartment, because they can't afford the luxuries you have of a nice 2-bedroom house."
Your anecdotal experiences are a snap shot of a small slice of life in California and America. I don't dispute them. I don't care a bit for the attitudes you describe. I do care that you single them out as society's villains when incomparably greater harm is being caused by the kinds of people the majority of society admires as "successful" for their wealthy, educated achievements.
Location: Central Bay Area, CA as of Jan 2010...but still a proud Texan from Houston!
7,484 posts, read 10,452,629 times
Reputation: 8955
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo
Who said that? Not I. And why do you think so? What makes sense?
My discussion has not been about justifying welfare -- although I have acknowledged that many people on welfare are the unfortunate result of the vagaries of life. My entire focus has been on how this welfare issue is neither a drag on or a danger to society that compares with the damage done by wealthy, well educated elites. I am sick of hearing vilification of the poor and uneducated -- at least without acknowledgement that they don't compare in the slightest to the destructive forces wielded cavalierly by elites. What I write is indisputable. No one has yet disproved my claim that destructive behaviors executed by certain elites are far more damaging and dangerous to society than the simply self-destructive behaviors of the lowest classes. No one has been able to demonstrate that a million welfare checks to a million individuals is comparable to the poisoning of hundreds of millions of Americans by a relatively small number of very wealthy, educated, and sophisticated people on a daily basis. Etc.
I don't know what Big Brother did to you but damn it must have been harsh!
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo
So? Unless you are saying your strengths mean you are better people and more worthy of god's love than persons who suffer weaknesses. Back to elitist judgements.
No What it means is that even though we were poor we did not expect a free ride...that's all. Maybe that is where the first seed to being self sufficient was planted in me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo
I agree. about poverty and low life ... I have no idea what you being a poor little "rich" girl means or what it has to do with anything here.
It means that I was a poor child in the mist of hell and I had all the riches to become something more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo
Yes. I have the same experience. Again: so?
So the point is... I don't know of any pompous elitist that has one homeless friend.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo
Yes. And so? But the diversity shouldn't include that some people can't rise to compete and therefore they are unworthy of god's love? Again?
Who said otherwise
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo
What would Jesus think (No, I'm not religious ... just wondering.)
Show me where I have advocated for excuse makers ... I have done no more or less than demonstrate that they are not the worst among us ... that, in fact, that distinction goes to sociopaths who are among the wealthy and highly educated. As I wrote above to TVC15, a lot of folks here, including yourself, have thrown out stereotyped accusations about poor, uneducated people, denigrating them as the low life's that cause the greatest harms to our society. That simply is not true. However low life those people may be, their actions do not rise to the immoral acts of elitists.
What?? .. So, give the low-life the power of the rich and see what happens.. O' sh*t : the housing crisis that almost brought down the whole world. They are the same. Just because one isn't empowered most often to cause great havoc doesn't mean anything .. For every 1 low life who fell into wealth at the top there are like 1,000 low lives at the other end of the spectrum. So what you are saying is that we should put them on equal footing? Only then will you see them as the same? We tried that experiment already .. It almost brought down the world and will most probably in coming years lead to a great upheaval in our freedoms as Americans. It has already taken a sh*t on a whole generation. Lets try some more .. Yeah that's the trick.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo
Your anecdotal experiences are a snap shot of a small slice of life in California and America. I don't dispute them. I don't care a bit for the attitudes you describe. I do care that you single them out as society's villains when incomparably greater harm is being caused by the kinds of people the majority of society admires as "successful" for their wealthy, educated achievements.
There it goes again... You show your absolute disdain for people at the top and none for those at the bottom.. Lets run through something again because you missed it again... Who makes the rich rich? The poor. How do they do that? by buying sh*t they don't need that has profit margins attached .. $2 profit margin x 1 billion ..what does that equal .. $2 billion. It's quite simple.
Who worships celebrities ? most often the people who lack confidence in themselves and don't see the 'celebrity' they look at in the mirror everyday (poverty of the mind).
Who worships money the most? the people who least have it because they feel they are nothing and the people who have it are everything? Are the rich any more special? No .. they eat/sleep/ and sh*t just like everyone else. Morals/values/beliefs/understanding/knowledge .. don't have a price tag attached ... Anyone can obtain them who tries. those are the things that are truly valuable. Why do people value other things? (poverty of the mind).
What separates an amazing poor person vs. an amazing rich person... Money .. them being both amazing has nothing to do w/ $$$. Why do most people not see it this way? (poverty of the mind).
Who empowers a leader? Followers who don't see the leaders in themselves. (poverty of the mind).
Who prevents false leaders, crooks, and liars w/ lots of power from being dethroned and dealt w/ equally ? Their followers (present all throughout history) (poverty of the mind).
At the end of the day you begin to understand that we all bleed the same blood and breathe the same air. We aren't supernatural or any more special than any other human being on the earth .. So how do a small minority become as such? By the millions of idiotic followers that empower them. (poverty of the mind).
You reflect on the damage some dweeb does in a corner office on wallstreet... How is that possible? because sh*t tons of people give that dweeb money not caring an ounce of what corrupt sh*t he does in hopes that the dweeb will make them rich.. Does he have super powers that other humans don't? No. Why does he have more power then? because lots of idiots gave him power... Why do loopholes exist ? because people think they will get a chance to jump through them too ... Why do people settle for idiots rising to the top? Because more than intelligent people there are idiots in the world and they want to believe they can too... (poverty of the mind).
Did Hitler go and kill each jew one by one? No .. If he had tried he'd been dead quite quickly.
How did 'Hitler' kill so many jews? Because of the dumb a** idiots who followed him. (poverty of the mind).
All that being said, how you arrive at a small feeble amount of regular human beings causing the wealth of the destruction is beyond me... They don't... Their idiot followers do.. and speaking to them and trying to get through to them is impossible because of their poverty of mind ... People give up trying. People just let them be. When someone tries they get sh*t on... Hey, don't talk to me like that, i'm happy to be an idiot.. I like my life .. gtfo.
That guy krugman is a genius .. He has a nobel prize. Who are you thinking critically and sh*t actually analyzing the information? You're not smarter than him. Obama is the president .. Who are you question him as a reporter because a policy he is enacting blatantly harms Americans to help illegals? Who are you to question the leaders? the rulers of society? The celebrities.. The nobel prize winners? the CNN anchors? (poverty of the mind).
The biggest atrocities in the world don't occur because of a small group of alien beings at the top. They occur because a lot of impoverished minds at the bottom give them power and fight anyone who thinks critically, questions, or tries to take it away... People construct a la-la land and fight anyone who tries to bring them into reality..
It's ironic .. It'll never change. Hasn't much throughout history. I have wasted enough years trying to get people to use their minds. For many life will always be f'ed up for them and they will never understand why or change it (poverty of mind).. In many ways welfare and the fanfare exist as : bread and circuses. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses
It was the basic Roman formula for the well-being of the population, and hence a political strategy unto itself.[citation needed] In the case of politics, the phrase is used to describe the creation of public approval, not through exemplary or excellent public service or public policy, but through diversion, distraction, and/or the mere satisfaction of the immediate, shallow requirements of a populace.
Root theme echoing through history.. 2012 .. Here we are... Bread and circuses .. Lots of Followers empowering a minority to rule over them. (Poverty of mind)
We can probably go 100 years into the future and will still find the same thing. A f'ed up world made possible by none other than the masses who have (Poverty of the mind)
*I'm done*
Last edited by yeahthatguy; 06-17-2012 at 03:06 AM..
Location: Central Bay Area, CA as of Jan 2010...but still a proud Texan from Houston!
7,484 posts, read 10,452,629 times
Reputation: 8955
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy
What?? .. So, give the low-life the power of the rich and see what happens.. O' sh*t : the housing crisis that almost brought down the whole world. They are the same. Just because one isn't empowered most often to cause great havoc doesn't mean anything .. For every 1 low life who fell into wealth at the top there are like 1,000 low lives at the other end of the spectrum. So what you are saying is that we should put them on equal footing? Only then will you see them as the same? We tried that experiment already .. It almost brought down the world and will most probably in coming years lead to a great upheaval in our freedoms as Americans. It has already taken a sh*t on a whole generation. Lets try some more .. Yeah that's the trick.
There it goes again... You show your absolute disdain for people at the top and none for those at the bottom.. Lets run through something again because you missed it again... Who makes the rich rich? The poor. How do they do that? by buying sh*t they don't need that has profit margins attached .. $2 profit margin x 1 billion ..what does that equal .. $2 billion. It's quite simple.
Who worships celebrities ? most often the people who lack confidence in themselves and don't see the 'celebrity' they look at in the mirror everyday (poverty of the mind).
Who worships money the most? the people who least have it because they feel they are nothing and the people who have it are everything?
What separates an amazing poor person vs. an amazing rich person... Money .. them being both amazing has nothing to do w/ it.
Who empowers a leader? Followers
Who prevents false leaders, crooks, and liars w/ lots of power from being dethroned and dealt w/ equally ? Their followers (present all throughout history)
At the end of the day you begin to understand that we all bleed the same blood and breath the same air. We aren't supernatural or any more special than any other human being on the earth .. So how do a small minority become as such? By the millions of idiotic followers that empower them.
You reflect on the damage some dweeb does in a corner office on wallstreet... How is that possible? because sh*t tons of people give that dweeb money not caring an ounce of what corrupt sh*t he does so that they can make him rich.. Does he have super powers that other humans don't? No. Why does he have more power then? because lots of idiots gave him power...
Did Hitler go and kill each jew one by one? No .. If he had tried he'd been dead quite quickly.
How did 'Hitler' kill so many jews? Because of the dumb a** idiots who followed him.
All that being said, how you arrive at a small feeble amount of regular human beings causing the wealth of the destruction is beyond me... They don't... Their idiot followers do.. and speaking to them and trying to get through to them is impossible because of their poverty of mind ...
*I'm done*
Man you rock young but wise one I'm done as well...bed time! Look forward to the din din and vino manana... oops actually today! Yikes off to sleep I go!
I won't for a second make a comment about your service. As an American, I thank you for your service even if I don't agree w/ the ridiculous nature of our military and war mongering as a country. You experienced tragedy .. Cool, I understand that.
We have talked before in confidence. Again, as you reflect, there is nothing wrong w/ poverty. A big thing that you have to grasp is that this is 2012. You went through stuff granted but as much as you think things are the same. They aren't. Unions for instance.. Labor laws were non-existent.. Unions initially were great and paved the way from sane/just labor laws. We got the laws.. Now they are just tearing society apart and hurting the people who keep them employed(things change). It used to be that public workers were humble servants to society anymore. That is not the case anymore. They are paid (considering benefits) even better than private sector in many cases and their servitude ends when you cut their paycheck. (things change) We have civil rights, my dad was a teenager during that time and talked to me many times about what it was like. He is very protective and would often times overreact about my 'eclectic' group of friends. He was surrounded by racism and so its odd that i have a bunch of white friends (things change). Older people I have dealt w/ from his generation.. Some have been quite racist.. Present day generation? Not so much (things change). Women's rights.. Women's rights are here. The old dogs who are hail from the woman's rights era are still here too like the racists..... Like civil rights it will take (2-3 generations) for it to fade out (things eventually change). Welfare/social safety nets.. Created out of a need and a real function in society.. Now-a-days are run-amuck and exploited (things change)
Anti-war activities .. Still here. Jack arse presidents and govt... Still here. People having no control over what our idiotic govt. does except tossing a stupid vote in a box all to see them go in office and do wtf they want.. Oh but you can vote em out in 4 years and put another idiot just like em in office .. This is a democracy (nothing has changed)
You blame wallstreet and not mainstreet. You don't reflect on the poverty of mind that plagues people but on poverty itself. I have to assume as to what draws this flawed and skewed view. I assumed wrong. Do you care to analyze yourself and tell me why you seem to, even after having living a life of poverty and led a rich life ....blame the guys in the clouds? Not reflect on the mental driver of a 'state of poverty'?
You do but you seem to haven't learned anything.. You were close to all of these pivotal movements but you were close to the leaders and their strong willed followers. Your parents were strong willed leaders as were mine. I though gained exposure and had a way of understanding the products of parents who weren't. You sympathize for these people but you don't empathize. You were a fly on a wall to it all. If you were more than that your view points and opinions would be different.
Again, you blame wallstreet and don't reflect on mainstreet.
You point out those who are impoverished and reflect on it like its
#1 - Bad
#2 - resolved by handouts
You father spoke to all of those people about civil rights and welfare culture .. How many people did he reach? How many just kept on keeping on? Were here now right ? 2012 .. what has changed ? For the mindset of millions .. nothing. You father didn't reach. I can't reach em. You can't. Handouts wont....and yet, good money keeps going after bad. Meanwhile, per your cross world experiences you should have gathered... There are many other people in the world.. Some eat mud pies for sustenance. There are millions who are actually strong willed and have strong minds who want to do better... What about them? What about the many people who you push many steps back by handouts? What about them? What about the mind? The mind that you fail to provide sustenance. The wisest thing my dad every told me and what I live by : Son..If you ever do anything in life.. Grow and protect your mind. Educate yourself and when you're tired educate yourself some more... Beyond books.. Obtain knowledge and wisdom.. There's a difference. Money comes and goes. Things come and go. People will take your 'things' from you .. People will spit on you.. Call you names.. Disadvantage you.. You may wake up living under a bridge.. But if your mind can never be taken away from you.. Protect it .. Nourish it .. because its the one thing that they can never take from you...
We live in America... Our media.. and dominant ideology convince people everyday to turn off their minds . Feed it trash. Society at large does. I grew up in the information age and have watched the internet evolve.. At first it helped stamp out myths.. B.S .. etc.. Then came the monied interest.. And now, the problem is not getting information, it's sorting through the pile of sh*t stacked on top of it. People don't think critically anymore.. Instead they rely on some opinion from an expert. A noble prize winner in foolishness.. A reporter on CNN. A clown who conforms w/ their views. People don't engage in critical debate... If you go against dominant ideology or the mainstream view you get mob'd by a pack of wolves. The knowing people try for a while and eventually give up and grow up.. and the gap widens even more.
You've given me your advice.. One piece of advice for you. Don't ever get so old that you think you have nothing to learn from someone younger than you. Every now and again approach an issue taking the total opposite view you would normally take...
You corrected me. You know a thing or two about poverty .. But were you a fly on the wall or a sponge w.r.t to the experiences? Did you understand things or just observe? Your view on wallstreet/mainstreet and poverty have a common line. More than anyone, you need to understand personally what drives this flawed view of yours. Death is certain in life. We all arrive there eventually. Someone dies. Someone is born. Life is a struggle.. We all have our own personal ones.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.
It's 2012. The biggest plague of poverty exists in many minds of the human race.
Dislike wallstreet? Stop buying sh*t you don't need? Dislike the gap between rich/poor? stop buying sh*t you don't need.
Organize. Create more fair circumstances.. But .. but ..
The face of future welfare queens
vs. the past :
(things change)
2012 .. Poverty .. Things (have) changed.
ytg ... most everything you write here has nothing to do with the point I raised in response to the stereotyping of uneducated welfare recipients as the villains of California and the nation. I haven't in the slightest lionized the poor or assigned them any particular value. Nor have I criticized wealth in general. I'm simply calling the vilification BS.
You launched previously into some judgmental assumptions about my basis for understanding poverty. I answered with a snapshot correction of your assumptions of my life. Now here you are rambling on about the missions of my parents. I am not living their missions. And I am certainly more fully aware this is 2012 and what that means than you are. My adult perspectives are 5x, at least, yours, which carries a cumulative magnitude that goes exponential to yours. I have no idea what you think I have been doing, but I am entirely connected -- and not working on civil rights, unions, or anti-war activities -- the transitions of all of which I am more aware than you.
And btw, you have once again here suggested that I now live in the comfort of wealth. No. I actually do live a full-time camping lifestyle in a 17-year-old, 10 foot box van with no conveniences about 2/3 of the year, and on a little 43-year-old sailboat without conveniences or even stand-up headroom in winter. I have net worth now. I do not use it. I support three and a half people on less than a third of what you earn as a single person.
None of this goes to the issue I raised about vilifying these uneducated, welfare recipients: they, for all their uselessness and sad plight, do not threaten society in any measure comparable to many industrialists, financiers, politicians, etc -- all of whom are highly sophisticated, educated, and wealthy.
My mission here, and often on these boards, is to step up to identify the mischaracterizations and stereotyping. Either show me that the sad waste of these poor welfare lives is more harmful to society than the wholesale destructiveness of the industrial barons and their financiers and political lackeys -- again ALL of whom are the most educated and sophisticated in society -- or shut up the claptrap. You can't. The only serious threats to our world are made by a relatively small group of upper echelons.
What?? .. So, give the low-life the power of the rich and see what happens.. O' sh*t : the housing crisis that almost brought down the whole world. They are the same. Just because one isn't empowered most often to cause great havoc doesn't mean anything .. For every 1 low life who fell into wealth at the top there are like 1,000 low lives at the other end of the spectrum. So what you are saying is that we should put them on equal footing? Only then will you see them as the same? We tried that experiment already .. It almost brought down the world and will most probably in coming years lead to a great upheaval in our freedoms as Americans. It has already taken a sh*t on a whole generation. Lets try some more .. Yeah that's the trick.
There it goes again... You show your absolute disdain for people at the top and none for those at the bottom.. Lets run through something again because you missed it again... Who makes the rich rich? The poor. How do they do that? by buying sh*t they don't need that has profit margins attached .. $2 profit margin x 1 billion ..what does that equal .. $2 billion. It's quite simple.
Who worships celebrities ? most often the people who lack confidence in themselves and don't see the 'celebrity' they look at in the mirror everyday (poverty of the mind).
Who worships money the most? the people who least have it because they feel they are nothing and the people who have it are everything? Are the rich any more special? No .. they eat/sleep/ and sh*t just like everyone else. Morals/values/beliefs/understanding/knowledge .. don't have a price tag attached ... Anyone can obtain them who tries. those are the things that are truly valuable. Why do people value other things? (poverty of the mind).
What separates an amazing poor person vs. an amazing rich person... Money .. them being both amazing has nothing to do w/ $$$. Why do most people not see it this way? (poverty of the mind).
Who empowers a leader? Followers who don't see the leaders in themselves. (poverty of the mind).
Who prevents false leaders, crooks, and liars w/ lots of power from being dethroned and dealt w/ equally ? Their followers (present all throughout history) (poverty of the mind).
At the end of the day you begin to understand that we all bleed the same blood and breathe the same air. We aren't supernatural or any more special than any other human being on the earth .. So how do a small minority become as such? By the millions of idiotic followers that empower them. (poverty of the mind).
You reflect on the damage some dweeb does in a corner office on wallstreet... How is that possible? because sh*t tons of people give that dweeb money not caring an ounce of what corrupt sh*t he does in hopes that the dweeb will make them rich.. Does he have super powers that other humans don't? No. Why does he have more power then? because lots of idiots gave him power... Why do loopholes exist ? because people think they will get a chance to jump through them too ... Why do people settle for idiots rising to the top? Because more than intelligent people there are idiots in the world and they want to believe they can too... (poverty of the mind).
Did Hitler go and kill each jew one by one? No .. If he had tried he'd been dead quite quickly.
How did 'Hitler' kill so many jews? Because of the dumb a** idiots who followed him. (poverty of the mind).
All that being said, how you arrive at a small feeble amount of regular human beings causing the wealth of the destruction is beyond me... They don't... Their idiot followers do.. and speaking to them and trying to get through to them is impossible because of their poverty of mind ... People give up trying. People just let them be. When someone tries they get sh*t on... Hey, don't talk to me like that, i'm happy to be an idiot.. I like my life .. gtfo.
That guy krugman is a genius .. He has a nobel prize. Who are you thinking critically and sh*t actually analyzing the information? You're not smarter than him. Obama is the president .. Who are you question him as a reporter because a policy he is enacting blatantly harms Americans to help illegals? Who are you to question the leaders? the rulers of society? The celebrities.. The nobel prize winners? the CNN anchors? (poverty of the mind).
The biggest atrocities in the world don't occur because of a small group of alien beings at the top. They occur because a lot of impoverished minds at the bottom give them power and fight anyone who thinks critically, questions, or tries to take it away... People construct a la-la land and fight anyone who tries to bring them into reality..
It's ironic .. It'll never change. Hasn't much throughout history. I have wasted enough years trying to get people to use their minds. For many life will always be f'ed up for them and they will never understand why or change it (poverty of mind).. In many ways welfare and the fanfare exist as : bread and circuses. Bread and circuses - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It was the basic Roman formula for the well-being of the population, and hence a political strategy unto itself.[citation needed] In the case of politics, the phrase is used to describe the creation of public approval, not through exemplary or excellent public service or public policy, but through diversion, distraction, and/or the mere satisfaction of the immediate, shallow requirements of a populace.
Root theme echoing through history.. 2012 .. Here we are... Bread and circuses .. Lots of Followers empowering a minority to rule over them. (Poverty of mind)
We can probably go 100 years into the future and will still find the same thing. A f'ed up world made possible by none other than the masses who have (Poverty of the mind)
*I'm done*
More babbling. I have never lionized the poor and uneducated. I have never suggested they are noble. Never suggested that, given power, they would rule the world with benevolent excellence.
I simply point out that vilification of the low is BS, particularly while preaching that education is the answer, and that the wealthy are society's caretakers. It isn't. They aren't.
Your babbling on about how the poor give the rich their power is meaningless to this discussion. If there is any shame in the exchange, it should be leveled at those sophisticated and expert at what they do ... that is the level at which knowledgeable will is applied to taking advantage of others at the expense of society and the environment -- purely for personal gain and gratification. Once a person becomes fully aware of their actions is the point at which full responsibility is called for. Until then it is the frailty of undeveloped human nature. Would the poor do the same damage if they had the chance? Undoubtedly. But they aren't. So if anyone wants to call BS, level the call at the actual perps. Simple. It's about intellectual honesty and spiritual integrity.
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(No, I'm not religious ... just wondering.)
What it means is that even though we were poor we did not expect a free ride...that's all. Maybe that is where the first seed to being self sufficient was planted in me. 
.. So, give the low-life the power of the rich and see what happens.. O' sh*t : the housing crisis that almost brought down the whole world. They are the same. Just because one isn't empowered most often to cause great havoc doesn't mean anything .. For every 1 low life who fell into wealth at the top there are like 1,000 low lives at the other end of the spectrum. So what you are saying is that we should put them on equal footing? Only then will you see them as the same? We tried that experiment already .. It almost brought down the world and will most probably in coming years lead to a great upheaval in our freedoms as Americans. It has already taken a sh*t on a whole generation. Lets try some more .. Yeah that's the trick.
