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Canadians acting out this idea is the strong Canadian belief that Canada is a nation of peacekeepers. According to the UN, Canada ranks 38th in UN peacekeeping, with 233 peacekeepers abroad working in UN peacekeeping missions as of Dec 2003, supplying less than 1% of international peacekeepers.
No offence to the US, but I wouldn't want Canada to become a state (or be divided into a bunch of states). I like things like our health care system and the fact that gays have the right to get married here (just to name a couple of things). While the OP's 1st option sounds OK, I wouldn't want to run the risk of any of those things changing.
Here is an excellent link about how the Canadian identity is entirely MADE UP. I couldnt say it better myself, this guy hits the nail on the head 100%. Here is one excerpt:
"Since this second-class citizenship is undesirable, and since Canada could never match the United States in measurable terms due to relative size of populations, many Canadians often describe themselves as more civilized, peaceful and kind. Canadian historian George Woodcock notes it in this manner, "Canadians make up for their physical weakness by assuming an air of moral superiority towards the Americans, not unlike that which Scots assumed towards the English". One example of Canadians acting out this idea is the strong Canadian belief that Canada is a nation of peacekeepers. According to the UN, Canada ranks 38th in UN peacekeeping, with 233 peacekeepers abroad working in UN peacekeeping missions as of Dec 2003, supplying less than 1% of international peacekeepers. Ghana commits about ten times the number of peacekeepers, at 2,306 while only having 60% of Canada's population. Many will then go on to contrast their imagined leading role in international peacekeeping against the world policing of the United States. Even though Canadian soldiers have stood side-by-side with USAmericans in nearly every military action (UN-mandated or not) the US has taken. The only two notable exceptions being the Vietnam War and the recent Iraqi conflict, both of which were highly debated in both countries. Many other Canadians have attached themselves to the belief that Canada is "a kinder and gentler nation" (ironically a phrase taken from President George H. W. Bush). Yet, when put to the test in terms of philanthropy "Americans give over two-and-a-half times more of their income to charity than do Canadians", according to a Fraser Institute of Dec 2003 report. The average value of charitable donations in the United States is $3,494 US; the average value of donations in Canada is $998 CDN ($760 US)."
In other words all these things Canadians make up to differentiate themselves from Americans are BS. No you arent kinder, you arent more polite. Someone from Vancouver has more in common with a guy from Seattle than Montreal. That is an indisputable fact. The only reason you think you are so different is because you are raised from day one to think you are something else. At the end of the day you are 99% an American. An American in denial.
Dr. Mark Snyder on the Canadian identity:
"If you step back, it's very hard in objective terms to plot out what are the true differences between Canadians and Americans... Humans have a strong capacity to construct identities for themselves. It's largely a social process of construction. Some of it is taking small differences and making them seem bigger. A lot of it comes not from the differences, but from feelings of a sense of identity. It's tough to find things on which to hang an identity for all the English-speaking Canadians. It's not really a language that makes them distinct. It only makes them distinct from French-speaking Canadians. It makes them more like the U.S. to focus on language. Food doesn't work very well because, by and large food in Canada is the same as in the United States. What are you left with? Well there's geography. It's clear that if you live in Canada as opposed to the U.S., there's a border between the two. There aren't a lot of things onto which you can pin a distinctively Canadian culture, other than growing up and learning that you're Canadian and not American. It's identity by negation rather than affirmation."
Again couldn't agree more. Its always minblowing to see Canadians claim they are SOO different from Americans but when Quebec comes up they list all the things they share in common. Really? Quebeckers are foreigners in all but name. Just like Anglo Canadians are Americans in all but name.
While there is some truth to all of this, it does come across as unduly harsh.
Ultimately, if Canadians do feel they are different from Americans (in the same way Argentines and Uruguayans are different, or Germans and Austrians), it's not up to anyone to tell them how to feel.
That said, the Canadian identity as it has emerged over the past 30-40 years does illustrate quite vividly the pitfalls of basing too much of a country's identity on basic human qualities (niceness, compassion, etc.) that are found in human beings all over the world regardless of citizenship, as opposed to the usual stuff identities around the world are based on and that tend to be more cultural (cuisine, dress, traditions, music, etc.).
I'm not sure why it is that we should have to prove to anyone why we deserve to exist as a nation.. Why it is that we need to somehow substantiate to people like Ilikemike (as if she is god) that Canada needs to have some sort of collective identity or value or other sort of credentials that meet their requirements in order for us to continue on our own course as a nation.
There are over 190 other nations on earth that don't need to justify their existence to Ilikemike or some individuals in the U.S nor is the U.S required to justify its existence either. Nothing against the U.S... It can feel free to chart its own path and engage in its own domestic affairs and we will do the same.. We have been for awhile now and we are all grown up.. Its ok Ilikemike - you can continue on your own path to becoming an American but don't expect everyone else to follow your own lead... Self Determination, its a wonderful thing...
I don't care about lack of cultural differences, at the end of the day I think Canada is just generally the more civilized part of the Americas. I don't know why it matters so much to either nationality that something in terms of the humanity within them has to be inherently different. Who cares? They are two different states that have two different results politically - but with a lot of superficial similarities. Personally I like the Canadian version better.
But even still, I just bussed it from Ft. Lauderdale to home last week. Without even leaving the bus stations too much, I actually found the states to be way more different than I had previously thought. I didn't think the food of all things would be different, but fast food throughout *at least* the Eastern US is on a whole other level of shameless junk. And by no means are Greyhound busses a barometer of classiness, but the low income/low education population in the US is the worst I've seen in the developed world. People proseletyzing to others, handbags decked out with Jesus kitsch, and just generally the least intelligent conversations you could imagine.
A lot of the inner cities just look so dumpy and unattended to. There's obviously not much difference in city-planning between both countries, but I still thought that American cities feature a lot more greyish, brownish, dated looking concrete. And everywhere you go there is an insurance or liability claim commercial or billboard.
I liked visiting the states, but I also definitely knew exactly when I entered and exited the country.
Detroit is cool and isn't even trying to be *yet*.
here is an excellent link about how the canadian identity is entirely made up. I couldnt say it better myself, this guy hits the nail on the head 100%. Here is one excerpt:
"since this second-class citizenship is undesirable, and since canada could never match the united states in measurable terms due to relative size of populations, many canadians often describe themselves as more civilized, peaceful and kind. Canadian historian george woodcock notes it in this manner, "canadians make up for their physical weakness by assuming an air of moral superiority towards the americans, not unlike that which scots assumed towards the english". One example of canadians acting out this idea is the strong canadian belief that canada is a nation of peacekeepers. According to the un, canada ranks 38th in un peacekeeping, with 233 peacekeepers abroad working in un peacekeeping missions as of dec 2003, supplying less than 1% of international peacekeepers. Ghana commits about ten times the number of peacekeepers, at 2,306 while only having 60% of canada's population. Many will then go on to contrast their imagined leading role in international peacekeeping against the world policing of the united states. Even though canadian soldiers have stood side-by-side with usamericans in nearly every military action (un-mandated or not) the us has taken. The only two notable exceptions being the vietnam war and the recent iraqi conflict, both of which were highly debated in both countries. Many other canadians have attached themselves to the belief that canada is "a kinder and gentler nation" (ironically a phrase taken from president george h. W. Bush). Yet, when put to the test in terms of philanthropy "americans give over two-and-a-half times more of their income to charity than do canadians", according to a fraser institute of dec 2003 report. The average value of charitable donations in the united states is $3,494 us; the average value of donations in canada is $998 cdn ($760 us)."
in other words all these things canadians make up to differentiate themselves from americans are bs. No you arent kinder, you arent more polite. Someone from vancouver has more in common with a guy from seattle than montreal. That is an indisputable fact. The only reason you think you are so different is because you are raised from day one to think you are something else. At the end of the day you are 99% an american. An american in denial.
Dr. Mark snyder on the canadian identity:
"if you step back, it's very hard in objective terms to plot out what are the true differences between canadians and americans... Humans have a strong capacity to construct identities for themselves. It's largely a social process of construction. Some of it is taking small differences and making them seem bigger. A lot of it comes not from the differences, but from feelings of a sense of identity. It's tough to find things on which to hang an identity for all the english-speaking canadians. It's not really a language that makes them distinct. It only makes them distinct from french-speaking canadians. It makes them more like the u.s. To focus on language. Food doesn't work very well because, by and large food in canada is the same as in the united states. What are you left with? Well there's geography. It's clear that if you live in canada as opposed to the u.s., there's a border between the two. There aren't a lot of things onto which you can pin a distinctively canadian culture, other than growing up and learning that you're canadian and not american. It's identity by negation rather than affirmation."
again couldn't agree more. Its always minblowing to see canadians claim they are soo different from americans but when quebec comes up they list all the things they share in common. Really? Quebeckers are foreigners in all but name. Just like anglo canadians are americans in all but name.
I don't care about lack of cultural differences, at the end of the day I think Canada is just generally the more civilized part of the Americas. I don't know why it matters so much to either nationality that something in terms of the humanity within them has to be inherently different. Who cares? They are two different states that have two different results politically - but with a lot of superficial similarities. Personally I like the Canadian version better.
But even still, I just bussed it from Ft. Lauderdale to home last week. Without even leaving the bus stations too much, I actually found the states to be way more different than I had previously thought. I didn't think the food of all things would be different, but fast food throughout *at least* the Eastern US is on a whole other level of shameless junk. And by no means are Greyhound busses a barometer of classiness, but the low income/low education population in the US is the worst I've seen in the developed world. People proseletyzing to others, handbags decked out with Jesus kitsch, and just generally the least intelligent conversations you could imagine.
A lot of the inner cities just look so dumpy and unattended to. There's obviously not much difference in city-planning between both countries, but I still thought that American cities feature a lot more greyish, brownish, dated looking concrete. And everywhere you go there is an insurance or liability claim commercial or billboard.
I liked visiting the states, but I also definitely knew exactly when I entered and exited the country.
Detroit is cool and isn't even trying to be *yet*.
At least nobody has been beheaded on a Greyound Bus in the US.
I don't care about lack of cultural differences, at the end of the day I think Canada is just generally the more civilized part of the Americas. I don't know why it matters so much to either nationality that something in terms of the humanity within them has to be inherently different. Who cares? They are two different states that have two different results politically - but with a lot of superficial similarities. Personally I like the Canadian version better.
But even still, I just bussed it from Ft. Lauderdale to home last week. Without even leaving the bus stations too much, I actually found the states to be way more different than I had previously thought. I didn't think the food of all things would be different, but fast food throughout *at least* the Eastern US is on a whole other level of shameless junk. And by no means are Greyhound busses a barometer of classiness, but the low income/low education population in the US is the worst I've seen in the developed world. People proseletyzing to others, handbags decked out with Jesus kitsch, and just generally the least intelligent conversations you could imagine.
A lot of the inner cities just look so dumpy and unattended to. There's obviously not much difference in city-planning between both countries, but I still thought that American cities feature a lot more greyish, brownish, dated looking concrete. And everywhere you go there is an insurance or liability claim commercial or billboard.
I liked visiting the states, but I also definitely knew exactly when I entered and exited the country.
Detroit is cool and isn't even trying to be *yet*.
Cool post! Looooong bus ride.. Don't think I could do that lol.. Really fair observations though.. Many U.S cities/areas I have been to have left the same impression... of course you get the opposite and some super nice and developed places too but large swaths of the country fit the bill and hard to ignore these run down places.. just not to be found nearly to the same degree north of the 49th. Mind you it is a whole lot more challenging for a system to manage 300 + million than 35..
Leave it to you to make the most pathetic post in the history of CD.... There can be many many things said about shameless, ruthless killings of the innocents in the U.S but to even go there just displays a certain void of humanity. There is such a thing as stooping too low - even on anonymous internet forums.
Here is an excellent link about how the Canadian identity is entirely MADE UP. I couldnt say it better myself, this guy hits the nail on the head 100%. Here is one excerpt:
"Since this second-class citizenship is undesirable, and since Canada could never match the United States in measurable terms due to relative size of populations, many Canadians often describe themselves as more civilized, peaceful and kind. Canadian historian George Woodcock notes it in this manner, "Canadians make up for their physical weakness by assuming an air of moral superiority towards the Americans, not unlike that which Scots assumed towards the English". One example of Canadians acting out this idea is the strong Canadian belief that Canada is a nation of peacekeepers. According to the UN, Canada ranks 38th in UN peacekeeping, with 233 peacekeepers abroad working in UN peacekeeping missions as of Dec 2003, supplying less than 1% of international peacekeepers. Ghana commits about ten times the number of peacekeepers, at 2,306 while only having 60% of Canada's population. Many will then go on to contrast their imagined leading role in international peacekeeping against the world policing of the United States. Even though Canadian soldiers have stood side-by-side with USAmericans in nearly every military action (UN-mandated or not) the US has taken. The only two notable exceptions being the Vietnam War and the recent Iraqi conflict, both of which were highly debated in both countries. Many other Canadians have attached themselves to the belief that Canada is "a kinder and gentler nation" (ironically a phrase taken from President George H. W. Bush). Yet, when put to the test in terms of philanthropy "Americans give over two-and-a-half times more of their income to charity than do Canadians", according to a Fraser Institute of Dec 2003 report. The average value of charitable donations in the United States is $3,494 US; the average value of donations in Canada is $998 CDN ($760 US)."
In other words all these things Canadians make up to differentiate themselves from Americans are BS. No you arent kinder, you arent more polite. Someone from Vancouver has more in common with a guy from Seattle than Montreal. That is an indisputable fact. The only reason you think you are so different is because you are raised from day one to think you are something else. At the end of the day you are 99% an American. An American in denial.
Dr. Mark Snyder on the Canadian identity:
"If you step back, it's very hard in objective terms to plot out what are the true differences between Canadians and Americans... Humans have a strong capacity to construct identities for themselves. It's largely a social process of construction. Some of it is taking small differences and making them seem bigger. A lot of it comes not from the differences, but from feelings of a sense of identity. It's tough to find things on which to hang an identity for all the English-speaking Canadians. It's not really a language that makes them distinct. It only makes them distinct from French-speaking Canadians. It makes them more like the U.S. to focus on language. Food doesn't work very well because, by and large food in Canada is the same as in the United States. What are you left with? Well there's geography. It's clear that if you live in Canada as opposed to the U.S., there's a border between the two. There aren't a lot of things onto which you can pin a distinctively Canadian culture, other than growing up and learning that you're Canadian and not American. It's identity by negation rather than affirmation."
Again couldn't agree more. Its always minblowing to see Canadians claim they are SOO different from Americans but when Quebec comes up they list all the things they share in common. Really? Quebeckers are foreigners in all but name. Just like Anglo Canadians are Americans in all but name.
I disagree, I think that (English) Canada does have it's own culture but it is weak (like many ex-colonial cultures) and next to an elephant and because of common roots easy to be mistaken with American culture when it is seen. When I was first in Canada this struck me as undoubtedly Canadian. I was sitting there thinking this show is the most clearly Canadian thing I had ever seen (to that date). The humor and everything was just not American regardless of any region or subculture. I definitely agree that to extent a Canadian identity is invented and business owners especially capitalize on it (I would MUCH rather run a corporation in Canada), but there is still something there in Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto that is something else and it surely isn't created by a government. I really feel a strong British influence that just isn't there anywhere in the US.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse44
I don't care about lack of cultural differences, at the end of the day I think Canada is just generally the more civilized part of the Americas. I don't know why it matters so much to either nationality that something in terms of the humanity within them has to be inherently different. Who cares? They are two different states that have two different results politically - but with a lot of superficial similarities. Personally I like the Canadian version better.
But even still, I just bussed it from Ft. Lauderdale to home last week. Without even leaving the bus stations too much, I actually found the states to be way more different than I had previously thought. I didn't think the food of all things would be different, but fast food throughout *at least* the Eastern US is on a whole other level of shameless junk. And by no means are Greyhound busses a barometer of classiness, but the low income/low education population in the US is the worst I've seen in the developed world. People proseletyzing to others, handbags decked out with Jesus kitsch, and just generally the least intelligent conversations you could imagine.
A lot of the inner cities just look so dumpy and unattended to. There's obviously not much difference in city-planning between both countries, but I still thought that American cities feature a lot more greyish, brownish, dated looking concrete. And everywhere you go there is an insurance or liability claim commercial or billboard.
I liked visiting the states, but I also definitely knew exactly when I entered and exited the country.
Detroit is cool and isn't even trying to be *yet*.
By claiming to be the most civilized and classy you come off as the stereotypical smug and ignorant Canadian and sully the name of truly classy Canadians. Many of the people you look down on probably think the same about you. Perhaps try being more tolerant of people who believe in a religion and want to talk about it . You don't have to agree with them but being classy would entail tolerating different cultures and values rather than berating them and looking down your nose. Apparently your version of classy means bashing the poor and sneering at them. Honestly, it is fairly obvious through your posts that you are a bigot, but like most bigots you fail to see your own ignorance. People have different cultures and values and not all will conform to your ideals.
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