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Where sin abounds , grace abounds much more . Jesus was a living revelation of this scripture, yes he did say go "sin no more" to 2 people and i am convinced the reason He said,it has nothing to do with what the fundamentalists would have us believe ..... . Infact i am convinced having read the gospels numerous times over the years , they hated Him because His grace was abounding all over the show.They just could not comprehend that God could even be like this , never mind display such wonderful grace. Was Jesus looking over sin ? of cause not , He is the remedy to sin in every which way you look at , and it's His manifest goodness that causes a man to repent , and it's His manifest goodness that causes us to go on from repentance.
To unbelievable for the Fundy..... but you know what Mr Fundy , that's why it takes faith to believe it, so quit trying to neutralizing the good news with the threat and fear of ET , because it ain't working.
Romans 7 answers your questions and puts all the verses you quoted above into perspective ...
When we are born again of the spirit, we acknowledge that the law of sin is Good, but sin is still in the members of our corrupt bodies. So when we acknowledge that sin is sin, it is no longer we that are sinning, but it is the sin that dwells in our bodies that continues to sin.
One who is in complete bondage to sin, who is a slave to sin, does not even acknowledge sin.
That is why Paul wrote ...
Romans 7:22-25
So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.
Until we are resurrected in incorruptible bodies, we will always have sin in our lives because sin is in the very members of our corruptible bodies.
That is why we get frustrated, and lose patience, and are sometimes easily angered, and sometimes proud and boisterous, and sometimes spiteful, and sometimes arrogant, and sometimes lustful, and some times hateful, and sometimes liars, and sometimes doubters, and sometimes rude, and sometimes violent ... etc.
Thanks for posting that Ironmaw, it clarified some things for me.
I just learned how to use the multiple quote button for all except the last quote where the quote button opens up for our reply. So I have enjoyed going back and piecing some quotes together that make a lot of sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway
Please read Eph 1:11 and Colossians 1:16-20. It's God who is doing it all, and for all. This is a higher revelation than what Jesus said during His flesh ministry.
Blessings,
brian
Pardon me, Brian, but I consider it close to blasphemy when you can imply that the righteousness of Christ (as Paul says justifies the man who does no works - that this trumps the words of our LORD and Master that if we love Him we will keep His commandments. Paul did say that Abraham believed god and it was imputed unto him for righteousness. But Abraham believed God to the point that he was willing to sacrifice his beloved Isaac, which took A HEAP OF WILLINGNESS TO OBEY GOD. And as scgraham quoted Paul leter,
Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham
1 Corinthians 6
[9] Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
[10] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
And as scgraham says again,
[quote=scgraham;16434506] Obedience is the result of love. No obedience, no love.
quote]
Jesus summed it all up by saying in John 14, "IF you love me, keep my commandments; and again in Luke 17:, "When ye have all things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants; we have done that which was our duty to do."
We have to believe Christ and His Father to the point that we lay down our will and let the Holy Spirit do the work in us, so that we have nothing of which we can boast.
Best wishes as we continue to seek to do His will, without which, if we just call Him "Lord, Lord," but fail to DO His will, we will not make the grade,
Bob
Last edited by Robert M Prince; 11-02-2010 at 07:46 PM..
Reason: typo
We have to believe Christ and His Father to the point that we lay down our will and let the Holy Spirit do the work in us, so that we have nothing of which we can boast.
I find the above to be a contradiction of terms, am i the only one who notices this?
To say "we must first believe Christ and his father to the point of laying down our own will so that the holy spirit can work in us", and then to immediately follow that with "so that we have nothing of which we can boast" is utterly preposterous, no offense intended.
You have the idea that you "believed God and Christ to the point that you laid down you own will, before the spirit was able to work in your life" to boast about, and in fact you are literally boasting about how you have done that ... Because if that the case and you had never done that the holy spirit never would have been able to work in you to begin with.
The scriptures teach the opposite, that because of the work of the holy spirit in our lives first, before we ever believed and while we were still carnal, we then learned to believe in God and Christ so much that we lay down our will to him.
Its because of the goodness of God and the work of his spirit in our lives that we are able to and finally did/do repent and come into a knowledge of the truth of the gospel and believe and have faith on Christ, and that is why we have nothing to boast about, its all a free gift and his workmanship.
It has nothing to do with what we did or did not do, but what he is doing within us.
The scriptures teach the opposite, that because of the work of the holy spirit in our lives first, before we ever believed and while we were still carnal, we then learned to believe in God and Christ so much that we lay down our will to him.
It has nothing to do with what we did or did not do, but what he is doing within us.
Ironmaw,
Think about what Paul said about Abraham, "Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him for righteousness." Yes, the Spirit of God was inspiring Abraham to believe while he was still in uncircumcision. But remember Peter made it very clear in Acts ch.5 that "God gives the Holy Ghost to them that obey Him." So if Abraham had lived after the day of Pentecost he would have believed God to the point of having an obedient mind and God would have given him the indwelling Holy Ghost to have made it possible for him to become more obedient. Even if we have the Holy Spirit, we are still far from perfect, but that indwelling Holy Ghost makes it possible for us to avoid committing wilfull, blatant sins, which would have been impossible if God had not given us the Holy Ghost, so we cannot boast of that, since it is the Spirit of Christ working in us that makes this possible. But, and this is a BIG BUT, if we claim to be a friend of Jesus, and go on sinning in an openly disobedient manner, then God does not give us the Holy Ghost, and Paul says in Rom ch 8 that "If any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His." On the other hand, if a person has believed God to the point of having an obedient mind and of being indwelled by the Holy Spirit, THEN if he commits a willful, blatant sin, knowing that it is wrong and purposefully against the Lord's will, that becomes the UNFORGIVEABLE SIN, and Hebrews 10:26-27 says, "If we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth [which comes with the indwelling Holy Spirit] there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries." That is why the woman who had been caught in the act of adultery but had not been condemned by our compassionate Savior, but was warned by Him, "Go and sin no more." As He told the man who had been healed in the 5th ch of John, "Behold thou art made whole; sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee." So when preachers say that Jesus forgives all present, past, and future sins once they believe in Jesus, they are not truthful. Jesus implies that if they commit a wilfully disobedient sin after receiving the indwelling Holy Spirit, then a worse thing will come upon them.
The gate truly is a narrow gate and one that is impossible for us to navigate through, but if we truly believe in Jesus and have a mind to be obedient, we are given the Holy Spirit which makes the impossible possible.
Best wishes,
Bob
Ironmaw,
Think about what Paul said about Abraham, "Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him for righteousness." Yes, the Spirit of God was inspiring Abraham to believe while he was still in uncircumcision. But remember Peter made it very clear in Acts ch.5 that "God gives the Holy Ghost to them that obey Him." So if Abraham had lived after the day of Pentecost he would have believed God to the point of having an obedient mind and God would have given him the indwelling Holy Ghost to have made it possible for him to become more obedient. Even if we have the Holy Spirit, we are still far from perfect, but that indwelling Holy Ghost makes it possible for us to avoid committing wilfull, blatant sins, which would have been impossible if God had not given us the Holy Ghost, so we cannot boast of that, since it is the Spirit of Christ working in us that makes this possible. But, and this is a BIG BUT, if we claim to be a friend of Jesus, and go on sinning in an openly disobedient manner, then God does not give us the Holy Ghost, and Paul says in Rom ch 8 that "If any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His." On the other hand, if a person has believed God to the point of having an obedient mind and of being indwelled by the Holy Spirit, THEN if he commits a willful, blatant sin, knowing that it is wrong and purposefully against the Lord's will, that becomes the UNFORGIVEABLE SIN, and Hebrews 10:26-27 says, "If we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth [which comes with the indwelling Holy Spirit] there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries." That is why the woman who had been caught in the act of adultery but had not been condemned by our compassionate Savior, but was warned by Him, "Go and sin no more." As He told the man who had been healed in the 5th ch of John, "Behold thou art made whole; sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee." So when preachers say that Jesus forgives all present, past, and future sins once they believe in Jesus, they are not truthful. Jesus implies that if they commit a wilfully disobedient sin after receiving the indwelling Holy Spirit, then a worse thing will come upon them.
The gate truly is a narrow gate and one that is impossible for us to navigate through, but if we truly believe in Jesus and have a mind to be obedient, we are given the Holy Spirit which makes the impossible possible.
Best wishes,
Bob
Good post so long as you understand that the Spirit must be given to precede the obedience. Your not given the Spirit on a condition of obedience. You given the Spirit to be obedient.
Hi Bob!
It seems clear to me that Jesus' teachings were not the end, but only the beginning of what He has been wanting to teach man about the Kingdom. Just as the teachings of a "Kingdom of God" and God as "Father" were quite new, and even blasphemous, so too were the early believers persecuted for believing "blasphemous" things. The realm of Sonship is only beginning, and the early church was quickly learning things that were setting them freer and freer as time went by. (by freer, I do not mean freer to live in sin and bondage and death, but freer to live in Life and Righteousness, which they hadn't known previously.)
(by freer, I do not mean freer to live in sin and bondage and death, but freer to live in Life and Righteousness, which they hadn't known previously.)
I'll continue later, gotta go..!
Blessings,
brian
Hi Brian,
I love your statement about being freer to live in life and righteousness.
It seems as if Satan has numerous ways to give a person a false assurance of salvation. IMO the best test of whether we truly have the Holy Spirit is a private matter between the Christian and God. If we have that Spirit, we belong to Christ, but, if not we are still in the clutches of Satan. (see Rom. 8:[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
I believe it behooves all Christians to beg our heavenly 'Father to show us if we truly have that Spirit. The best self-tests IMO are the fruits of the Spirit, and characteristics of charity:
Gal 5:[22] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
[24] And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
[25] If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
I Cor 13:[4] Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
[5] Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
[6] Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
[7] Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
[8] Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
Best wishes as we continue to seek God's truth,
Bob
Hi Brian,
I love your statement about being freer to live in life and righteousness.
It seems as if Satan has numerous ways to give a person a false assurance of salvation. IMO the best test of whether we truly have the Holy Spirit is a private matter between the Christian and God. If we have that Spirit, we belong to Christ, but, if not we are still in the clutches of Satan. (see Rom. 8:[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
I believe it behooves all Christians to beg our heavenly 'Father to show us if we truly have that Spirit. The best self-tests IMO are the fruits of the Spirit, and characteristics of charity:
Gal 5:[22] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
[24] And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
[25] If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
I Cor 13:[4] Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
[5] Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
[6] Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
[7] Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
[8] Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
Best wishes as we continue to seek God's truth,
Bob
Hi Bob!
Thanks for getting back with me..
I agree 110% about looking at the fruits of the Spirit.
So now I ask you this: if you are honest with your neighbor on a given occasion, are you not walking in the Kingdom?
If you submit humbly to others who treat you unjustly, are not not manifesting Christ in you?
Or if you feel joy in your heart when you reflect on your Creator as you are walking down the street, are you not now in heaven?
Hi Bob!
Thanks for getting back with me..
I agree 110% about looking at the fruits of the Spirit.
So now I ask you this: if you are honest with your neighbor on a given occasion, are you not walking in the Kingdom?
If you submit humbly to others who treat you unjustly, are not not manifesting Christ in you?
Or if you feel joy in your heart when you reflect on your Creator as you are walking down the street, are you not now in heaven?
Blessings!
Brian
Brian,
This is a private matter between each person who claims to be a Christian and his Maker. Almost anyone can manifest a few of the characteristics of charity and similarly some of the fruits of the Spirit. If a self-examination reveals some serious weaknesses in these characteristics, then it would behoove each of us to beg the Lord to show us if we truly desire to do His will above every other priority in our life. Jesus said in 7th ch of matthew, "Not everyone who says unto me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth the will of my Father in heaven."
Best wishes,
Bob
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